Most accurate mass-produced model to match SP steel cupola cabooses?

MTH made a real nice wood sided cupola SP caboose if you want to go a bit earlier.

Just as a reference, I have this MTH steel way car to go behind my Sunset FTs.  I thought the two cars were pretty similar until I actually studied them both.  I suppose I could remove the shade over the cupola windows, sand out some rows of rivets and modify the cupola roof and it would be fairly close.  Looking for the SP experts to chime in on this one.

@RoyBoy posted:

MTH made a real nice wood sided cupola SP caboose if you want to go a bit earlier.

That might work!  I'll have to check it out.

About the same time I took delivery of the Sunset 3^rd Rail Mt-5 locomotive, I also bought their brass SP caboose which has four windows like the pic above, but is wood sided.

Don’t know how much accuracy you’re looking for. But as you may know, Lionel modeled many if it’s Postwar cabooses after the SP style. If you check eBay under Railroads and Trains/ freight cars/SP Cabooses, there are many. A lot of them appear to be in pretty good shape and very inexpensive.

The steel caboose is a C-40 (I know many wood cabeese were converted too) Lionel’s 6457 is based on that caboose. If there is an accurate O scale version it would have been in brass. No 3 rail manufacture has made an accurate C-40 and only 3rd Rail has made an accurate C-30 wood caboose. A UP CA-1 is not an SP caboose no matter the lettering and please no Santa Fe Caboose stand ins for a C-40.

With as many SP engines made in three rail you would think at least one manufacturer would finally step up and make accurate SP cabeese.

Lionel uses a NYC caboose in one of their Premier Vision SP sets. Whaaaaaat?

Pete

Jonathan, you have hit on one of my pet peeves.  Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever made a steel sided SP caboose since Lionel made 10 million of them in 027 after the war.  To me, a woodshed version is not a substitute if you want postwar era trains.  I hit a low a couple of years ago when Lionel had their year of GS steamers and trains.  One of these was a great, de-streamlined GS version with a freight set - with a WOOD SIDE NYC caboose!  I wrote Lionel about that as soon as I saw it in the catalog suggesting that would be a good time to do the correct caboose before the set got made.  Got no reply.

There is an OGR forum member who does custom cabooses and posts occasionally, but I have not seen an SP one posted.  I emailed him once from his forum contact, but got no reply.

Well at least I'm not as crazy as my wife thinks I am.  Maybe that is not true ....  I found the Sunset wood sided one and it is a little earlier than what I am interested in.  As I grow my SP fleet, I am likely to be solidly in the transition era so the wood cabooses would seem a little anachronistic.  However, if I can find a decently priced wood one, it would suffice.

Peter - interesting that you should comment.  The locomotive that I'm looking to pair this caboose with is the Mikado I purchased from you!

I knew the Lionel postwar caboose was based on the SP prototype, but it is a bit diminutive to go with my scale sized locomotives.  I have lots of those thanks to the ones I picked up out of Gordon's collection, just like the rest of us who attend TCA desert Division Auctions.

I agree the NYC caboose is no substitute and after looking at the MTH CA-1, it is not either.  Certainly, an interesting gap in O scale production as the SP tends to sell so well.

A few years back I was all set to purchase a bay window caboose until I realized the C-40, & C-50 class bay window cabooses are well past the steam era.  The C-30 would be close, but I have not found an O scale equivalent of that one.

It sounds like a good time to campaign for an accurate C-40-3 steel cupola caboose.  Sunset doesn't do a lot of freight cars anymore otherwise I'd talk to Scott about it.  I might still ask the question.  It won't be the first time he's said "no".

Thanks for all the input!!!

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Don’t know how much accuracy you’re looking for. But as you may know, Lionel modeled many if it’s Postwar cabooses after the SP style. If you check eBay under Railroads and Trains/ freight cars/SP Cabooses, there are many. A lot of them appear to be in pretty good shape and very inexpensive.

Vern,

Per my prior post, I have at least a dozen of these.  Only one is the 1947 postwar Lionel Lines one that has at least a little collector value.  I wonder what it would take to turn these into a scale version?  I suspect I'd be better scratching one than trying to kitbash, but I will take a look.

I mentioned the Lionel postwar caboose somewhat tongue in cheek, but the more I think about it, I wonder if someone with a 3D scanner could then upscale it to proper 1:48 and then 3D print some.  Trucks, ladders, etc should be easy add one.  

Now that I think of it, one of our club members here is a genius  with 3D printing.  I’ll ask him if it is feasible

There is considerable overlap of the presence of both C-30s and C-40s. There are photos of C-30s in original all wood configuration at least up to 1962, maybe later. Most C-40s were built from 1940-1942. So a Post WWII steam engine or early diesel trailed by C-30 is entirely appropriate.
Those who model SP should consider picking up a copy of Tony Thompson’s “SP Freight Cars Vol2, Cabooses” if you come across a copy. The ultimate reference.

Even in brass these are like hen’s teeth. Only one I could find.

https://www.brasstrains.com/Cl...la-Caboose-Unpainted

Pete

You know, it's always been a mystery to me why Lionel over the decades, hasn't perfected more of its cabooses. The SP type is a good example. Over the years, they could have come out with several improved versions of this classic caboose, even to the point of making it scale, as it did with Union Pacific's CA-4s. Just another Lionel historical mystery, I guess.

One of things that make cabooses so  interesting to many of us is their individuality, which makes only a generic choice possible to stuff into volume train sets. If not found in brass, and that only if of wide interest, a custom/scratch is the only hope.

If I may veer:

I wish that Lionel had offered/would offer in the modern era a 1:48 version of its PW everybody's-got-one SP caboose. It's not really a bad toy/representation of the SP unit. With those tough, finely-done metal handrails, and metal tool boxes on the frame. That's it, really. Lights, with an on/off switch. (Maybe some basic interior furniture?) A 1:48, bigger-model-of-the-model. In SP, of course, and some others, and maybe painted/unlettered. Add more detail if you like. Otherwise, it's 1955 on steroids.

I'm alone, I'm sure. Don't care. 

A.C. Gilbert didn't like the ESPE I would guess, But he did love the NYC'... (LOL)

You should be able to find the Lobaugh kit for this SP steel caboose either in an original box or built up, they were quite common.  Could be converted to 3 rail (sadly IMHO).

You asked for most accurate, not necessarily completely accurate, mass produced steel caboose. As mentioned above, the MTH Premier steel caboose is the closest one I have seen in a mass produced model that you are going to find right now. I think it is based on an ATSF prototype. I guess that they are close enough to other roads cabooses that MTH decided it would pass as a one for all and save tooling costs.

As far as the Lionel CA-4's go, I would imagine that they are unique enough and U.P. is popular enough to justify making that specific caboose. Just my two cents. In O-gauge I model U.P. primarily so, unfortunately for me or fortunately depending on how you look at it, I had to buy a few of the Lionel CA-4's since they are the most accurate models available for that road.

@j2morris posted:

You should be able to find the Lobaugh kit for this SP steel caboose either in an original box or built up, they were quite common.  Could be converted to 3 rail (sadly IMHO).

Good to know another source but you make it sound that by swapping wheelsets, someone is desecrating the model.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Good to know another source but you make it sound that by swapping wheelsets, someone is desecrating the model.

Pete

Agreed.  I model in two rail and three rail and have converted 2 rail models to 3 rail only to convert them back to two rail in some cases.  That is why it is called modeling.  The only challenge is the flanges on 3 rail trucks sometimes affect the ride height, but I always evaluate that on a case by case basis and older 3 rail wheelsets would probably clear the bottom of the car regardless.

For me, I run western roads at my 3 rail club so a three rail version makes the most sense.  Since the SP cabooses have leaf spring trucks I should be in good shape to find a decent set of replacement ones. 

Thanks to all for the input!!

@Mike D posted:

You asked for most accurate, not necessarily completely accurate, mass produced steel caboose. As mentioned above, the MTH Premier steel caboose is the closest one I have seen in a mass produced model that you are going to find right now. I think it is based on an ATSF prototype. I guess that they are close enough to other roads cabooses that MTH decided it would pass as a one for all and save tooling costs.

The MTH model is based on the ATSF prototype and I have one for use behind my FT set.  With some work, I could modify one for SP use and get a "close enough" model.  I have one in UP that might end up being the donor for this project.  The biggest challenge is the window arrangement.  The rest doesn't look too challenging.