Skip to main content

Welcome to Week 6!

Earlier on this board I mentioned that I acquired over a dozen "junk" or derelict motors to develop my repairing skills. The motors were represented to me as Lionel post war production. I don't know what they are or what locomotives they would belong to. Can you help?

To add to interest I intend to post a new motor every week until the inventory is identified. The  expert who I.D.'s each week's motor will be awarded a "Certificate of Awesomeness"  from yours truly as a token of admiration and appreciation. Last week Certificates of Awesomeness were awarded to FRANKTRAIN and ROYBOY, for identifying the Marx Type C motor.  Since this was Roy's second award, his C of A bore an Oak Leaf Cluster.

So I put it to you, expert brothers and sisters, please: 1.) identify the motor; and 2.) Identify the locomotive it was intended to power. 

Thanks!

Here is this week's motor:

Wk 6 PortsideWk 6 StarboardsideWk 6 topsideWk 6 bottomside

Good luck!

Attachments

Images (4)
  • Wk 6 Portside
  • Wk 6 Starboardside
  • Wk 6 topside
  • Wk 6 bottomside
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I would say this one is a 1970 model, because it still uses the postwar-style reduction gear cluster on the non-brush side.  Brush plate and reduction gear cluster are held in place by sheet metal screws rather than rivets.  Also, the black side frames are probably reused from early-1960s postwar stock.  All of the MPC ones i've seen had shiny aluminum.  Definitely not a postwar motor though, because of the rollers, and also a much larger stack of laminations than was used in the 243, 244, etc.  Maybe even a prototype?

Starting to drift off-topic here, but the improved roller pickup assembly has an 82xx part number, so that would suggest 1972 as the first year for the new solid roller design.

One interesting thing is that the revised roller assembly makes adding a 3-position E-unit somewhat difficult, compared to the 1970 vintage scout-type roller assembly.  I believe you have to cut part of the plastic away to create room for the plunger.  The only MPC four-wheel loco sold with a 3-position E-unit was the 8506 switcher, and to my eyes it looks like the plastic was cut away,  maybe as part of the manufacturing process at Mt. Clemens.

That big stack of laminations, combined with a fairly tall gear ratio and rubber tires creates pretty high current draw on pulling and starting.  The mid-70s version of this motor was wound with wire that IMO was undersized for the application (double-wound field.)  They run hot, and sometimes get into a stall condition where the loco won't budge forward or reverse.  This could be because the high temperature and current anneal the brush springs, causing them to lose tension.  As a kid I can remember pulling my 2-4-2 off the track after a hard run and almost burning my fingers on the rollers.  One of the projects on my bucket list is to repower a die-cast 8042 (or an 8204) with a single-wound field from the 520 boxcab, by transferring the wheels from the original loco.  I'm pretty sure it would run slower and smoother, and the black side frames would make it look better too!

One more interesting tid-bit...  Beginning in 1973 they offered a lighter-duty variation of this motor with a thinner stack of laminations.  IMO that one runs smoother, the armature seems to be better balanced.  But I've seen a few examples that have a problem with gear mesh.  I'm not sure if this was caused by playwear, or if the tooling was starting to go out of tolerance after a few years' production.  But when you can turn the wheels and the armature doesn't spin, that's a problem! 

Last edited by Ted S
Ted S posted:

I would say this one is a 1970 model, because it still uses the postwar-style reduction gear cluster on the non-brush side.  Brush plate and reduction gear cluster are held in place by sheet metal screws rather than rivets.  Also, the black side frames are probably reused from early-1960s postwar stock.  All of the MPC ones i've seen had shiny aluminum.  Definitely not a postwar motor though, because of the rollers, and also a much larger stack of laminations than was used in the 243, 244, etc.  Maybe even a prototype?

That makes a lot of sense, Ted. It just so happens that the junk box contained a later 8040 with the shiny aluminum side frames (see pics).

8040comparison brush side8040comparison bearing plate side

The brush plates are similar, but the bearing plates are very different, the aluminum side frame model with a plastic bearing plate instead of the older post war type on the black side plate model. So it does look like the motor in question was made from left over post war stock. Since the first year of production in Mt. Clemens was 1970, this would support your dating.

The only fly in the ointment, Ted, is your assertion that the roller pick-up assembly had a 1972 part number, which would suggest a 1972 production date. Does this eliminate the possibility that the same part had a 1970 or earlier part number in 1970?

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 8040comparison brush side
  • 8040comparison bearing plate side

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×