i removed the e-unit (busted finger) and directly wired the engine so I could run. i test with a multimeter and there are no shorts. apply power to unit and the motor starts/stops quickly and transformer registers a short.
any ideas?
ps. please don't hurt yourself laughing too hard at soldering effort.
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I'd pull the armature and check it's condition, clean the commutator, etc. Pretty simple, either the motor has a problem or the truck gears are filled with ballast and the motor can't rotate.
@JohnSajczuk posted:...motor starts/stops quickly and transformer registers a short.
Let's see a picture of the transformer.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'd pull the armature and check it's condition, clean the commutator, etc. Pretty simple, either the motor has a problem or the truck gears are filled with ballast and the motor can't rotate.
armature was pulled and tested and passed. should gears move easily in either direction? right now only one way is easy and the other is impossible. without armature in they move in both directions.
@JohnSajczuk posted:KW was recently serviced by a local shop and pronounced - "alive and Well"
How long does it take to "register" a short?
How did you wire the motor directly?
Power from the rollers goes to one brush connection. A jumper from the other brush connection goes to the center lug field connection. The other field connection should already be grounded to the motor frame.
Apply power and the motor should run. Reverse the wires to the brushes and the motor should run in reverse.
It is common that turning the wheels of the loco by hand will be easy in one direction, and almost impossible in the other direction. It has to do with the locomotive gears and the gear cut on the armature causing the armature to ride up in the motor, locking it up.
Larry
@ADCX Rob posted:How long does it take to "register" a short?
quickly, a second or two.
@JohnSajczuk posted:quickly, a second or two.
That's too quick for a KW, I suspect the breaker has gone south. It's a very common failure on the KW to have an open or too sensitive breaker.
@TrainLarry posted:How did you wire the motor directly?
Power from the rollers goes to one brush connection. A jumper from the other brush connection goes to the center lug field connection. The other field connection should already be grounded to the motor frame.
Apply power and the motor should run. Reverse the wires to the brushes and the motor should run in reverse.
It is common that turning the wheels of the loco by hand will be easy in one direction, and almost impossible in the other direction. It has to do with the locomotive gears and the gear cut on the armature causing the armature to ride up in the motor, locking it up.
Larry
i believe that's what i did. there are only two field wires:
one is grounded to the field assembly with the screw that holds the field asssembly in place
the second wire from the field is connected to the lug in the middle of the field assembly
i connected a wire from the center field to the brush on one side.
The wire connected to the pickup assembly and light to the other brush.
i am pretty new at soldering and I am think the center lug and the two wires attached to it may not be as clean as it could be.
The wires comming off the field need to be stripped correct? i intend to rub some light sandpaper to cleanup the end of the field wire.
Yes, you have to sand off the clear insulation coating from the ends of the coil wires, or they will not solder.
Larry
@TrainLarry posted:Yes, you have to sand off the clear insulation coating from the ends of the coil wires, or they will not solder.
That won't cause a short. though.
@JohnSajczuk posted:...i test with a multimeter and there are no shorts.
What was your criteria to determine there were no shorts?
@ADCX Rob posted:That's too quick for a KW, I suspect the breaker has gone south. It's a very common failure on the KW to have an open or too sensitive breaker.
was just serviced at local reputable dealer by shorting I mean the red light starts to glow
@ADCX Rob posted:That won't cause a short. though.
What was your criteria to determine there were no shorts?
i used a mutimeter's ohm meter on all contacts points and it showed '0' resistance.
may have found part of the issue.... one of the wires may have been bumping/rubbing against another when the truck started to move.
for info only: trains, track, transformer all sat around my storage area above garage since '96. trying to resurrect it my 3 yr old grandson.
@JohnSajczuk posted:i used a mutimeter's ohm meter on all contacts points and it showed '0' resistance.
Zero resistance is the definition of a short in this context.
@ADCX Rob posted:That's too quick for a KW, I suspect the breaker has gone south. It's a very common failure on the KW to have an open or too sensitive breaker.
@JohnSajczuk posted:was just serviced at local reputable dealer by shorting I mean the red light starts to glow
Right, but it's supposed to take 15-45 seconds at 20 amps to trip the breaker on A-U. Did your service guy test this?
@ADCX Rob posted:Right, but it's supposed to take 15-45 seconds at 20 amps to trip the breaker on A-U. Did your service guy test this?
yes.. Only time the red light gloes is when i have he motor/truck on the track or when i try to bench test by touching wheels and pickup brush. if i connect my #394 tower the bulb lights on the tower and transformer light stays off.
i am confused.... i thought that electricty takes the least path of resistance.
@JohnSajczuk posted:yes.. Only time the red light gloes is when i have he motor/truck on the track or when i try to bench test by touching wheels and pickup brush. if i connect my #394 tower the bulb lights on the tower and transformer light stays off.
i am confused.... i thought that electricty takes the least path of resistance.
Try the diesel with another transformer. It looks like the KW is OK with 1/4 or 1/3 amp 394 at about 3.5 watts, but the breaker is opening prematurely with the load of the engine which requires about 30 watts to run, more to start it.
@ADCX Rob posted:Try the diesel with another transformer. It looks like the KW is OK with 1/4 or 1/3 amp 394 at about 3.5 watts, but the breaker is opening prematurely with the load of the engine which requires about 30 watts to run, more to start it.
thanks for your help and patience with me.
i'll see what I can borrow or test against with friends or family. just finished digging out of a nor'easter so i can't get very much done today.
PS. was just told by a friend that my OHM meter is regisering "INFINITY" not 0 like I thought. it was a borrowed meter, so I was talking about returning it and was updating him on what is going on.
@TrainLarry posted:Yes, you have to sand off the clear insulation coating from the ends of the coil wires, or they will not solder.
Larry
Larry, would you know the direct wiring for a 2-4-2 Columbia type 2 Locomotive. at this point I am figuring why not try that motor too.
The field coil only has two leads, so my uneducated guess would be:
pickup brush wire to one field lug
2nd field lug to motor brush
2nd motor brush to ground.
Am I close?
Name one motor contact A, the other B. One end of field is grounded via frame connection.
Roller to motor contact A, motor contact B to field, field to ground.
To reverse motor direction, roller to motor contact B, motor contact A to field, field to ground.
Have attached some e unit info from Olsen's CD - you can verify the above by reading and looking at the diagrams.
@MED posted:Name one motor contact A, the other B. One end of field is grounded via frame connection.
Roller to motor contact A, motor contact B to field, field to ground.
To reverse motor direction, roller to motor contact B, motor contact A to field, field to ground.
Have attached some e unit info from Olsen's CD - you can verify the above by reading and looking at the diagrams.
Thanks so much. Too late and too much wine to try and test tonight.
i will tomorrow and update here.
Picture is not that clear but looks like the white wire insulation is broken exposing the bare wire touching the frame.
Thanks to everyone for their help with this.
@JohnSajczuk posted:Thanks to everyone for their help with this.
welll here's my update.....
after rewiring the locomotive based on the info provided, it ran on bench for a minute or so. then I placed it on the track and it ran successfully two or three laps without fail then all of a sudden it started to casue short light on transformer to blink.
looked to see if any wires came free to are touching anything and found everything in the same place.
I had to stop because of family commtiments today and tommorow. Hoping to start looking at it on Monday (12/21).
A couple things come to mind now that it runs a couple laps before causing the transformer to report a short.
First - wires short after being moved around as the engine goes around the loop.
Second - a thermal caused problem. Motor armature coil heats up, wires expand slightly, as two windings short, causing high current draw, eventually tripping thermal breaker in transformer.
Third - you mentioned that with motor installed, wheels were extremely difficult to turn in one direction, but very easy in the other direction. If you have the motor wired now to run in the direction the wheels are extremely difficult to turn, motor could be drawing a lot of current to move, thus overheating thermal breaker. If you have the wiring in the hard to turn direction, redo wiring so motor turns in opposite direction and see if problem goes away. @TrainLarry mentioned that the difficult turning is related to the gears changing relationship to each other based on turn direction - I have also found that if the armature moves up/down a lot based on direction, gears jam in one direction, not the other. I have a gangcar that was missing a BB type bearing at the top of the armature, causing gears to jam in one direction, free in the other.
@JohnSajczuk posted:... it ran successfully two or three laps without fail then all of a sudden it started to casue short light on transformer to blink.
John, that is the classic symptom of a failing KW circuit breaker. You need to borrow a different transformer.
@ADCX Rob posted:John, that is the classic symptom of a failing KW circuit breaker. You need to borrow a different transformer.
Talked to and going back to shop that fixed it earlier today. Bringing my diesel and locomotive with me as proof.
@JohnSajczuk posted:Talked to and going back to shop that fixed it earlier today. Bringing my diesel and locomotive with me as proof.
UPDATE: Brought items to local dealer and he immediately took a look at it and found "failing KW circuit breaker". repaired it and even though wasn't part of the original repair -> they didn't charge me
many kudos and thanks to all but especially to 
well.... My grandson loved the train. so I had a very Merry Christmas eve with him. now I intend to rebuild/restore all three of my motorized cars..
looking for parts diagram/lists for the following:
Lionel #625 LehighValley Diesel 44 Ton Switcher
Lionel Columbia Type 2-4-2-Locomotive #1655 and #6654 Tender
any help (pointing me to a source) would greatly appreciated.
Here is the parts lists for the #625 and #1655/#6654
Have fun with your rebuilds!
Larry
@TrainLarry posted:Here is the parts lists for the #625 and #1655/#6654
Have fun with your rebuilds!
Larry
Thanks for the info and wishes of fun.
2 questions
1. Any ideas where I can buy from?
2. Where can I find an exploded view of the engines?
As far as I can tell, there is no exploded view of the #625, just the parts list.
The #1655 service manual makes reference to the fact that it is an improved version of the #1654 engine with a newer, improved motor. The boiler and all other parts are probably identical, so you can use that manual for non-motor parts.
For parts, there are The Train Tender, Brasseur Electric Trains, S&W, and Just Trains to name a few.
Larry
Thanks again
@JohnSajczuk posted:looking for parts diagram/lists for the following:Lionel #625 LehighValley Diesel 44 Ton Switcher
@ADCX Rob posted:
thanks... Meant to ask for this too
UPDATE: As of 12/29/20, my #625 Diesel is running smoothly and with good strength in both directions. This is because thanks to everyone I had the confidence to rebuild the e-unit and especially because @ADCX Rob posted the above very simple diagram.
I ordered the replacement part (4 finger e-unit contact) for the #1655 Locomotive restore.
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