MPC GP-20 conversion to dummy

I'd think the gears are available through different parts suppliers, if not Lionel. I'd say if you wanted to just make it a unpowered unit, buy a dummy truck and swap out the powered truck. I'd also think you could remove the motor, e-unit and gears. I'd think the drive axles would turn freely enough to use it as a dummy unit.

Rusty

CoastsideKevin posted:

Kevin,

Two things. The wheels are missing the traction tires. I bet the unit wouldn’t run well just with those missing.

If you’re intent on having a dummy, I don’t know how well the wheels with freely roll. In this picture remove the two philips screws and lift off that brush cover. Then lift out the motor armature. You can then look down at the gear that might be stripped. If you leave these parts out, you’ve got a dummy. I have an MPC dummy chassis if you’d want to trade.

Plenty of these trucks available on evilbay. Easy enough to swap out and keep it running.

Sam Jumper posted:

CoastsideKevin posted:

Kevin,

Two things. The wheels are missing the traction tires. I bet the unit wouldn’t run well just with those missing.

If you’re intent on having a dummy, I don’t know how well the wheels with freely roll. In this picture remove the two philips screws and lift off that brush cover. Then lift out the motor armature. You can then look down at the gear that might be stripped. If you leave these parts out, you’ve got a dummy. I have an MPC dummy chassis if you’d want to trade.

I have been using this unit as a donor so the traction tires are now on my other GP-20. I may take you up on the swap but will first try as you suggest and take the motor apart to try to dummify it. 

Thanks for your help!

All that need to be done is the armature removed. Like other guys have stated, your engine can be repaired.

Chuck Sartor posted:

All that need to be done is the armature removed. Like other guys have stated, your engine can be repaired.

Great, thanks. I will remove armature for now but with the intention of getting it running again. It’s funny, I didn’t see any obviously stripped gears when I took the armature out. I’ll post some pics..

Here is what it looked like inside. Do the gears looked stripped to you? Not sure what they’re supposed to look like  

 There is a black wire running from the roller pickup to the e unit. Wondering if I need to cut that wire for dummy service?

Either one of the plastic gears are stripped and spinning on the axle gear shaft. probably the one the armature drives. Metal replacements are available. No need to cut any wires, just turn the e unit lever off. Then you can still keep the light(s).

Kevin, the two pictures you provided are somewhat low resolution, so it's difficult to actually see the culprit. Typically I would have guessed that one (or more) of the plastic gears has a crack in/on it and is spinning freely on its shaft. This is super-easy to check; just stick your finger on the broken brown gear (the one that is almost black with old grease and has angled teeth on it) and then try to roll the truck across your table top while keeping the brown gear from moving.

If it rolls easy, you should be able to see which gear (or gears) is (are) the offender(s).

If it doesn't roll easily and attempts to shred the flesh from your fingertip, then, a) quickly stop pushing, and b) take a closer look at that brown gear, specifically on the left edge of the gear teeth. I tried to blow your pic up to get a better look, but it's not a hi-res picture. That said, it APPEARS that the left edge of the gear (as viewed in your picture) is a wee bit shredded. If that is indeed the case then stick your eyeball on things and see if the worm on the armature shaft was not hitting the brown gear fully in the center - either because the brown worm gear was mounted poorly from the factory, or because it moved over time. Try to slide the brown gear left or right on the shaft. If it can be moved with just your finger, there's a slight possibility to glue things back together using the existing parts and very little work on your part. But first tell me if what I just described is the case. 

Replacing the brown worm gear with a new one is not a simple task, but certainly can be done. But let's see what problems you find first, then you can decide how much you are willing to attempt yourself or if you would even want to spend some bucks to have someone else fix it.

George

GeoPeg posted:

Kevin, the two pictures you provided are somewhat low resolution, so it's difficult to actually see the culprit. Typically I would have guessed that one (or more) of the plastic gears has a crack in/on it and is spinning freely on its shaft. This is super-easy to check; just stick your finger on the broken brown gear (the one that is almost black with old grease and has angled teeth on it) and then try to roll the truck across your table top while keeping the brown gear from moving.

If it rolls easy, you should be able to see which gear (or gears) is (are) the offender(s).

If it doesn't roll easily and attempts to shred the flesh from your fingertip, then, a) quickly stop pushing, and b) take a closer look at that brown gear, specifically on the left edge of the gear teeth. I tried to blow your pic up to get a better look, but it's not a hi-res picture. That said, it APPEARS that the left edge of the gear (as viewed in your picture) is a wee bit shredded. If that is indeed the case then stick your eyeball on things and see if the worm on the armature shaft was not hitting the brown gear fully in the center - either because the brown worm gear was mounted poorly from the factory, or because it moved over time. Try to slide the brown gear left or right on the shaft. If it can be moved with just your finger, there's a slight possibility to glue things back together using the existing parts and very little work on your part. But first tell me if what I just described is the case. 

Yes, I didn't see it at first but now that you mention it, when I blow up the picture I see that the left edge looks like it is stripped. Hadn't noticed that before. Thanks!

Replacing the brown worm gear with a new one is not a simple task, but certainly can be done. But let's see what problems you find first, then you can decide how much you are willing to attempt yourself or if you would even want to spend some bucks to have someone else fix it. 

I'll give it a look when I get home from work. I am most likely not going to put much effort into fixing it, since it didn't pull as well many of my other locos and I do need a dummy GP. What would be perfect is if I could find a blue and gold Santa Fe shell to put on the frame so it would match my other GPs. Thanks for your help!

Chuck Sartor posted:

Either one of the plastic gears are stripped and spinning on the axle gear shaft. probably the one the armature drives. Metal replacements are available. No need to cut any wires, just turn the e unit lever off. Then you can still keep the light(s).

Excellent, a simple solution I would not have thought of: turn off the e unit! Thank you, Chuck.

This comes from the Cross Country Set. This was the set that got me "into" Lionel and O scale. The set belonged to my childhood friend and I ended up purchasing one a saw on ebay as an adult. I still have it. I know this has nothing to do with the thread but I just got a little excited when I saw the diesel engine.

Dave

luvindemtrains posted:

This comes from the Cross Country Set. This was the set that got me "into" Lionel and O scale. The set belonged to my childhood friend and I ended up purchasing one a saw on ebay as an adult. I still have it. I know this has nothing to do with the thread but I just got a little excited when I saw the diesel engine.

Dave

That's cool, Dave. Thanks for sharing. I also got this engine and matching caboose as a kid, probably in the early 1980s, so have had it a long time. Because the gears stripped shortly after we bought it, it has been in storage and is in nearly perfect cosmetic shape. Just ordered new traction tires, headlight bulb, and will get her going as a dummy for now but eventually will put her back into service. 

Ok, project update. 

I slid the gear over on the axle so it lined up with the drive shaft coming out of the bottom of the motor, slapped on some new tires, put in a new light, and ended up with this:

Not bad, right? Well, that was until I hooked up a few cars and ended up with this:

Clearly something still wrong with the gears, so I went ahead with my conversion and it looked like this:

But I didn’t like the bright light in the cab so took out the bulb and ended up with this:

Not perfect but prefer to see two engines pulling a consist of this length. 

Thanks to everyone for your help and input. It was a good learning experience. If anyone knows of a good dummy unit that matches the Lionchief Plus Santa Fe GP-38, please let me know. 

Kevin

UPDATE

Took a crack at somewhat matching the paint schemes today. The original bright orange was hard to cover! Looks ok from 5 feet away.

Decal kit coming this week. 

Forgot to update this one last time. Here is the more or less finished product. Not perfect, but close enough for government work. 

I think you have done good work to this point. I was wondering if you were going to paint what I call the "elephant ear" behind the cab, like your other unit, or just leave it as is? If you don't choose to do so, it still looks good! I also enjoyed the video's, thanks for posting!

Rusty

Diverging Clear posted:

I think you have done good work to this point. I was wondering if you were going to paint what I call the "elephant ear" behind the cab, like your other unit, or just leave it as is? If you don't choose to do so, it still looks good! I also enjoyed the video's, thanks for posting!

Rusty

Thanks Rusty. I decided not to attempt the Santa Fe Swoosh. I would have to free hand it, and I don’t trust my artistic ability at that level. I did add more decals to the front of the cab so feel like it is close enough now. 

Sure is hard to find affordable, matching GP or SD powered and dummy units that pull reasonably well.

Kevin, I understand, if I lived closer we'd masked that "Swoosh" off behind the cab and it would have turned out good I'm sure. You could even mask it off later and brush paint it, might look alright.

You could even say it went in for repairs regarding the main generator and that's how it came out of the shop! It's all good and it's your railroad, so anything is possible!

Rusty