MTH 44 Ton Switcher Pickup Roller modification

Bob R posted:

Problem:  MTH 44 Ton Switchers issued in 2015 and again in 2017 stall on Ross 072, reg 11deg, and 072/042 switches due to loss of center rail power for one half inch of travel  near the end of the center rail before the frog.  I had 40 switches with this incompatibility between Ross & MTH.  The roller wheel base of 4 7/16 inches combined with insulators at roller ends are the culprits. 

Solution: Remove the black plastic insulator piece at each end of each roller using a box cutter knife to cut thru to the recessed part of the metal roller.  The ring of plastic can then be easily forced off the roller with a very small screw driver.  The resulting all metal surfaces will then allow contact with center rail power all the way thru switches in all directions at any speed including down to 1 smph.  These rollers had groves cut in to permit the insulators to fit like tires.

MTH's design of rollers with narrow metal section and black insulated ends continues to mystify.  Here adding rubber or plastic was a mistake but we should not forget Mike's double helix display in the old Yellow Hall where rubber tired Dash-8s pulled heavy iron loads up a steep incline, besting any competitors of the day such as Williams, Lionel, Weaver, Right-of-way etc.

 

Would I have this problem with Atlas switches? I'm looking into getting the Amtrak version of the 44 tonner and would hate to have to modify it.

  I bet it's an attempt to stop roller shorts on some tracks and rwmain wide enough to stay on the center rail in tight curves, where long arm roller's overhang can be severe enough fall off rails using a narrow roller.

I found MTH wide all metal rollers on another locomotive and swap them, I think from an RS11. 

BEST IDEAS I HAVE HEARD YET AND HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING IT A LOT LATTELY.  WILL TRY!!!

Mine stalls on some of the Ross switches, I'll have to dig in my parts box and see if I have the replacement rollers, maybe that would make that locomotive useful again.

Some great info. on this thread!

So, it finally happened. Never had any operating issues on the older layout with this 44 tonner using G.G. Switches but the unit failed to operate on the new layout. When the engine encounters back-to-back or a group of G.G. switches, it shuts off. Another problem is it hesitates around Atlas O O36 curve tracks.

So, all you need to do is swap roller assemblies with a subway car to fix the issue. If you have MTH passenger cars, you can do the same. These older style rollers were the best. Make sure you keep the same screw with each unit as they are different in length. 44 TONNER USES THE SHORTER SCREW as equipped.

MTH sure got away with a lot of goof ups over the years that us operators had to eat. Should have been a class action with those QSI PS1 engines too.

We shouldn’t have had to do this especially at the ridiculous price that it was.

                                                      ( Roller swap )

                                                                Easy fix!

The next problem to fix will be loss of ground due to limited or no vertical travel of the wheels without traction tires.

I removed all the traction tires on my 44 tonner. Eliminated the other cause of stalls. Plenty of pulling power for my applications without traction tires.

I wish MTH/ATLAS would offer geared axles without traction tires part # DC0000024. I have had 6 axles on back order since February 15, 2022.

Let’s go MIKADO.

@ctr posted:

The next problem to fix will be loss of ground due to limited or no vertical travel of the wheels without traction tires.

I removed all the traction tires on my 44 tonner. Eliminated the other cause of stalls. Plenty of pulling power for my applications without traction tires.

I wish MTH/ATLAS would offer geared axles without traction tires part # DC0000024.

I went middle of the road.  I removed one wheelset with the tire and replaced with a plain wheelset.  I left one set of tires.

Gunrunnerjohn,

You got one of the last axles. Do you have any more?

The 44 Tonners are historically a royal PIA. I helped a friend debug on on Ross track. Took a while to figure it out.

BTW....guess where I am!

@ctr posted:

Gunrunnerjohn,

You got one of the last axles. Do you have any more?

Like you said, I got the last one.   Actually, I had two, but I gave one to a club member since I decided to only go with one axle change.

@SIRT posted:

So, it finally happened. Never had any operating issues on the older layout with this 44 tonner using G.G. Switches but the unit failed to operate on the new layout. When the engine encounters back-to-back or a group of G.G. switches, it shuts off. Another problem is it hesitates around Atlas O O36 curve tracks.

So, all you need to do is swap roller assemblies with a subway car to fix the issue. If you have MTH passenger cars, you can do the same. These older style rollers were the best. Make sure you keep the same screw with each unit as they are different in length. 44 TONNER USES THE SHORTER SCREW as equipped.

I did the same thing.  The rollers are still available from MTH, BD-0000042.

@SIRT posted:

Should have been a class action with those QSI PS1 engines too.

Be careful here.  It's only the earliest ones that have a definite problem and for these I wholeheartedly agree; perhaps the first year or two of production and only certain models.  @Buco, among others, has recently done quite a bit of digging that appears to support this.

All later ones seem to work acceptably.  Granted it's not easy to operate them because it takes both skill and patience but they do generally work as intended.

Mike

With the elimination of one set of traction tires and the replacement of the stock rollers with the BD-0000042 rollers, my 44-tonner clears every switch now.  I do see the headlight flicker on the double-slip switches, but those are about to be replaced, so that's a moot point now.

I did lose traction eliminating one set of tires, but that's only an issue on the long grade to the second level, and this is a small switcher anyway.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Be careful here.  It's only the earliest ones that have a definite problem and for these I wholeheartedly agree; perhaps the first year or two of production and only certain models.  @Buco, among others, has recently done quite a bit of digging that appears to support this.

All later ones seem to work acceptably.  Granted it's not easy to operate them because it takes both skill and patience but they do generally work as intended.

Mike

All PS1’s make good dummies, they are not compatible with 2 & 3 DCS.  I gutted out a few that were working, no use for that obsolete QSI design I.M.O.

@SIRT posted:

All PS1’s make good dummies, they are not compatible with 2 & 3 DCS.  I gutted out a few that were working, no use for that obsolete QSI design I.M.O.

Sorry to hear that.  Unfortunately they are not, and were never intended to be, as designed.

Obsolete?  Maybe.

Still fun for many of us without the gutting and expensive upgrade?  Definitely.

Mike

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I did the same thing.  The rollers are still available from MTH, BD-0000042.

Which MTH parts site to use? 

https://www.mthtrains.com/parts looks like the old site, but does show the part.  Is this still active?

https://www.mthpartsandsales.com/  looks like a new site, but it does not show the part.

Guess I am looking for confirmation the mthtrains.com site is the correct one.

Actually, MTH Parts & Sales does have the part.  The new parts site isn't smart enough to remove the dash, they changed the numbering scheme in what can only be a fit of stupidity!