MTH 8 WHEEL high rail WHEELS to 8 WHEEL scale wheels engine.

So someone can answer better than...

is the premier engine a trapped axle block as well?

or

Does it have the removeable plastic bottom? (3/2 design)

IMO... If so, just buy spare 3/2 hirail axles.

Is this a steam or diesel engine chassis? If diesel, do you know what type?

@Engineer-Joe posted:

So someone can answer better than...

is the premier engine a trapped axle block as well?

or

Does it have the removeable plastic bottom? (3/2 design)

IMO... If so, just buy spare 3/2 hirail axles.

Not sure about your terminology Joe. 🤔  both the RK and the Premier are configured with center pickups for 3 rail on the tenders but the flanges for the Premier are scale size.  The Premier switch can be set for 2 or 3 rail.

@AGHRMatt posted:

Is this a steam or diesel engine chassis? If diesel, do you know what type?

They are both steam Matt .   The donor would be an Imperial 2-8-2  and the' chosen '  is an 0-8-0 .

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have one of those 0-8-0s that is listed as scale wheeled. I believe it’s stated on the box. A Proto 2 New Haven. I’m thinking the Hi Rail and Scale Wheel are the same model. The wheels are very scale like as far as profile. But the center drivers are blind. 2 pickup rollers on the tender. I’ve run it over a multiple of Ross turnouts and never had an issue navigating any of them.

Just curious for the reason for a chassis or wheel swap ?

@Dave_C posted:

Just curious for the reason for a chassis or wheel swap ?

So far all my locomotives , steam ( Alleghenies , Challengers and all the way down to my 0-6-0 ) ,,diesel ( Premier and RK )  and electric have high rail wheels.   

I don't have velvety smooth rails on flat tables.   I use Realtrax with some o31 curves and 17 switches on 8 foot tables with a short pile carpet for foundation.   Looking at SCALE wheels make me think some high voltage sparking could take place. .   ( My limited incoming revenue flow prevents me from making board fireworks a fun event . )

Thanks for sharing the info on your 0-8-0. Dave.  I don't have any knowledge about 2 rail running .

@Dallas Joseph posted:

So far all my locomotives , steam ( Alleghenies , Challengers and all the way down to my 0-6-0 ) ,,diesel ( Premier and RK )  and electric have high rail wheels.   

I don't have velvety smooth rails on flat tables.   I use Realtrax with some o31 curves and 17 switches on 8 foot tables with a short pile carpet for foundation.   Looking at SCALE wheels make me think some high voltage sparking could take place. .   ( My limited incoming revenue flow prevents me from making board fireworks a fun event . )

Thanks for sharing the info on your 0-8-0. Dave.  I don't have any knowledge about 2 rail running .

What you're trying to do likely won't work as the steam chassis, tender configurations, and tether connections vary too much from model to model.

@AGHRMatt posted:

What you're trying to do likely won't work as the steam chassis, tender configurations, and tether connections vary too much from model to model.

I was going to try and exchange the wheels Matt.

After Dave C wrote about his Premier 0-8-0 being noted as a " scale " wheeled model being operational , I might try to run the engine slowly around the layout. 🤔

Thanks for your reply sir.

I think the chances of running scale wheels on Realtrax will be an exercise in futility, especially with all the switches and tight curves!  When I had Fastrack, I had problems running scale wheel MTH steamers on O72 curves.  They run fine on my Gargraves/Ross, but not on the rounded rails like Fastrack or Realtrax.

Man, I messed up. I at first thought we were talking about diesels!

I don't even know why I thought that now.

@Engineer-Joe posted:

Man, I messed up. I at first thought we were talking about diesels!

I don't even know why I thought that now.

No big deal Joe.   It happens all the time with me.  I guess we belong to a large fraternity. 

Looking at my original post I can't see where I accurately desribed what kind lf locomotive I was writing about.

  I can’t get to my engine for a couple of weeks. I’m pretty sure my box says Scale Wheels on the end flap. I noticed this right after I purchased it. My initial thought was why no pickup rollers on the engine. Just 2 on the tender. The previous version had 3. 2 on the engine. 1 on the tender. I remember being a little bummed by this seeing the provided holes were in place for the missing rollers. The engine is 3 or 2 rail capable. The tender seems to have normal 3 rail wheelsets. The engine seems to have scale type wheels. But I run Kadee’s and there is no mounting holes provided for Kadee’s. The last release I bought had these.

I guess my question is. Is there any difference between the scale wheel engine only and the high rail version. I would think the Kadee mounts would be there on both versions. There is no trailing or pilot truck involved. From what I’ve read. The MTH scale wheeled versions of other engines. Featured blind drivers. They did list both versions when I ordered from the catalog. Maybe I got the correct engine in the wrong box. I found the owners manuals online. They are the same for both versions.  Both are capable of running on 2 and 3 rail track and describe what needs to be done. The hi rail has the rollers installed and the scale wheeled has them in the box.

@Dallas Joseph posted:

I was going to try and exchange the wheels Matt.

After Dave C wrote about his Premier 0-8-0 being noted as a " scale " wheeled model being operational , I might try to run the engine slowly around the layout. 🤔

Thanks for your reply sir.

Oh. My mistake. You may be able to swap the wheels, but the 3/2 axles are different in how they work. The wheels may not fit on the hi-rail axles and the 3/2 axles may not fit in the hi-rail block. You'll also need to re-quarter the drivers. Interesting project.

@Dave_C posted:

  I can’t get to my engine for a couple of weeks. I’m pretty sure my box says Scale Wheels on the end flap. I noticed this right after I purchased it. My initial thought was why no pickup rollers on the engine. Just 2 on the tender. The previous version had 3. 2 on the engine. 1 on the tender. I remember being a little bummed by this seeing the provided holes were in place for the missing rollers. The engine is 3 or 2 rail capable. The tender seems to have normal 3 rail wheelsets. The engine seems to have scale type wheels. But I run Kadee’s and there is no mounting holes provided for Kadee’s. The last release I bought had these.

I guess my question is. Is there any difference between the scale wheel engine only and the high rail version. I would think the Kadee mounts would be there on both versions. There is no trailing or pilot truck involved. From what I’ve read. The MTH scale wheeled versions of other engines. Featured blind drivers. They did list both versions when I ordered from the catalog. Maybe I got the correct engine in the wrong box. I found the owners manuals online. They are the same for both versions.  Both are capable of running on 2 and 3 rail track and describe what needs to be done. The hi rail has the rollers installed and the scale wheeled has them in the box.

I'm going to have to get down to the train room Dave.   I may be mistaken about my confusion on the SCALE wheel issue and what I have may indeed be the high rail wheels.

I went back to the MTH locator site and found out the Premier number that ended with  -1 is supposed to be the HIGH RAIL wheels and the -2 is supposed to be the SCALE VERSION.

As far as the center pickups on the tender Dave , I just purchased the Premier ps3 0-6-0  with high rail wheels and there are only two pickups on the model and they are on the on the tender.

The tender has a 2 RAIL and 3 RAIL  switch on the bottom.  VOLUME and SMOKE switches on top under the water hatches.

@Dave_C posted:

...I’m pretty sure my box says Scale Wheels on the end flap. ...

@Dallas Joseph posted:

...I went back to the MTH locator site and found out the Premier number that ended with  -1 is supposed to be the HIGH RAIL wheels and the -2 is supposed to be the SCALE VERSION....

Just a heads up - don't rely solely on what the label on the box says.  I've purchased a couple of MTH items (new production from a dealer) where the box was incorrectly labeled regarding scale vs. hi-rail wheels.  Fortunately, mine had the desired wheels.  Probably a rare occurrence, but be sure to verify what's actually inside the box.

Dallas, I’ve been checking out MTH’s site as well. Both numbers show the same owners manual. The one picture showing 2 rail track. Has a tender from something else with a Kadee. I checked the parts site and both were listed. Unfortunately no parts schematic that would show exactly what’s different.  The key feature I found. The scale wheeled version lists 031 minimum curve. Which kind of confirms the blind drivers. Actually the list of features seems identical to the hi rail listing. Even has Coil Couplers. I’m almost wondering. If the Hi-Rail version has the pickups installed and the 2 rail version has them in a bag. The switches are in there proper position and other than that. They are the same.
I own 3 different eras of 0-8-0’s. The most recent is a Proto 3. They have gone back to 3 rollers and only one version is offered. But this one has the Kadee mounts with it and the provided 2 mounts. I’m assuming then this one model is designed to work on both 2 and 3 as long as your 2 rail track has a high enough code for the rail. There’s only mention of them being 2 rail capable. No mention of who’s or what version of track.
The Proto 2  I have is a great runner. In fact it negotiates my older version Ross 3 way in the yard better than any other steamer.

Dave , puchased another Premier 0-8-0  from the bay.  It should be here later this week maybe.

It's a ps2 / 3volt .  20-3120-1

I just went back to the photos.     The engine has two center pickups and the tender has one.    It has the blind center two wheels on each side .   The box does not designate scale or hi-rail. 

  Guess I'll have to wait and see what's up.

@Dallas Joseph posted:

Dave , puchased another Premier 0-8-0  from the bay.  It should be here later this week maybe.

It's a ps2 / 3volt .  20-3120-1

I just went back to the photos.     The engine has two center pickups and the tender has one.    It has the blind center two wheels on each side .   The box does not designate scale or hi-rail.

  Guess I'll have to wait and see what's up.

That one will have hi-rail wheels and should run fine on your layout.

That model was from the very first run. I have the NYC version. It was a few years later I ordered a New Haven that had the 3 or 2 capability. With only pickup rollers on the tender. I added Kadee’s to it and seeing I had an unused wire now in the tether. I added rollers to the engine and tied them all together. Never really had an issue that I remember as far as stalling with the original 2. The newest runs with Proto 3 have gone back to the original design with 3.  When you get your new to you engine. I’d give them both a look and see if there are any differences in the wheels. My feeling is the 3/2 version just has insulated wheels for 2 rail running and a switch to do it.

Mr. Joseph, I personally think it's a longshot that your idea would work.  Did you measure the wheels with a micrometer and are you 100% sure they are the same size?  Also- both of these locos are designed like toy trains.  You would have to remove the wheels with a wheel puller, or by driving the axle out through the center.  Then you'll have to press them on individually, and in "quarter," i.e., the angle between crankpins for wheels on opposite sides of the same axle has to be exactly the same for all four axles.  If you're not a machinist and you've never done this before, your chances of ever getting it to run smoothly are low.

It sounds like you've bought another loco and I hope you have success with it.  I personally avoid any of the Premier "scale wheeled" locos.  IMO the whole Proto 3-2 concept was poorly executed; the potential for disappointment and frustration is very high.  My $.02.

@Ted S posted:

Mr. Joseph, I personally think it's a longshot that your idea would work. 

After getting much advice on the subject I think this would be quite a gamble.     I didn't get back to the train room to do any further investigation on the subject.

Thanks for your reply Ted.