MTH announces more trains being made on youtube Trainworld Stream

Thanks for the post.

MTH will live on in another form.

Kunkle didn't address the coupler issue or have much to say.

Sorta seems like corkscrew logic to me.

Won't have a building after May, shipping is behind, some products won't show up until August-September, so let's build more...

Oh well...  It's still Mike's company, he can do what he wants.

Rusty

Wait until we have the "Warehouse" finds.  LOL!

My guess is that MTH is going to try to squeeze out as much product from existing tooling, namely locomotives, before the tooling goes away for good.

They've been making a lot of ES44AC's and DC's lately and the BNSF heritage units are the most recent. It seems like they have been cranking out a lot SD40-2's, GP38-2's and GP40's over the last couple of years so I wouldn't be surprised if there is another announcement for a small run of any of these models while they can still be made.

They better be making lots of spare parts, too.   

A year ago they were announcing the end of MTH effective June 2021.  The fact that they are announcing more runs of trains seems to be contradicting the previous announcement.  Perhaps they are just squeezing out a little more product but why would they do that?  There is no warehouse to receive them unless they rent another place.  Maybe Lionel will sublease some space. 

Maybe they could release a few more tinplate items

@Keith k posted:

Maybe they could release a few more tinplate items

Well, they could pump out the three 2816 hoppers they canceled and I would snatch them up immediately,  but I highly doubt that will happen.

It is interesting that they are cranking out more first time offerings while in swan song mode.

I'm on the sidelines until some clarity to the MTH mess is evident.

Going out with their boots on !

Well, I think we will have more clarity on the whole MTH situation sooner rather than later.

- LGB announced new F7s and passenger cars this week, which seem to be identical to the MTH toolings

- ScaleTrains, an HO brand, is making an "industry announcement" tomorrow (1/31)

What this means for the O Gauge stuff, who knows, but I think that the pieces are beginning to fall into place for an official statement on the future of MTH. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@RJ I posted:

Well, I think we will have more clarity on the whole MTH situation sooner rather than later.

- LGB announced new F7s and passenger cars this week, which seem to be identical to the MTH toolings

I dunno, LGB's had F7's and passenger cars for some time now, I think well over 10 years.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

I dunno, LGB's had F7's and passenger cars for some time now, I think well over 10 years.

Rusty

Well, there goes my LGB theory but there is still that ScaleTrains announcement tomorrow

@RJ I posted:

Well, there goes my LGB theory but there is still that ScaleTrains announcement tomorrow

I just noticed their announcement today for an HO SDL39...

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

I just noticed their announcement today for an HO SDL39...

Rusty

Yes, but they said there was another announcement coming tomorrow regarding the industry, not a specific product.

Maybe Mike thought the company would sell easily and he doesn't want to see it go away? Beats me but I'll be watching to see what they come out with!

@RJ I posted:

Yes, but they said there was another announcement coming tomorrow regarding the industry, not a specific product.

Well, we'll see.

However I don't think MTH's HO (or S and O) detail is up to Scale Trains standards.  They're more likely to be partnering with Rapido or Athearn Genesis.

Rusty

If you watch the Trainworld virtual train show, you'll see that Andy Edleman is straightforward about why MTH is making some more trains. He said that--

Because of production delays, some product from MTH's 2020 vol. 2 catalog will arrive after MTH has to be out of their building at the end of May (they sold the building a year ago and leased it back until May 31).

MTH will lease another space to receive and ship the delayed product. While they're still operating, they'll make some more trains. They'll be announcing some more new product in the next couple weeks, the last of which will deliver in September.

Unless for some reason you don't want to believe Andy Edleman--and in my book he's a straight shooter--that's all there is to it.

I believe that MTH has seen a massive run on existing products in stock. The LED Christmas stuff sold quickly once the announcement was made amongst many other products.  The Z4000 and the DCS components are completely unavailable right now and prices on online auctions for second hand DCS stuff is outrageous,.

There is high demand and MTH is still capable to produce supply, give the people what they want.

"Perhaps they are just squeezing out a little more product but why would they do that? "

Best bet is they are doing this to make a little more money.  Panic and nostalgia buying.  Pretty simple.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. They were in business to make trains and money. Keep doing that until they are done, whether it's May, September or next February 2022.

This is similar to buying the last production year of an Edsel, Saturn, Oldsmobile, DeSoto or Mercury.  The cars were sold to people who knew there would be no dealer to service them. Buyer's choice.  John

Looks like they are focusing on their more popular products (Big Boy, etc.).  That leaves me out.

However, I would buy a PRR A5 should it show up.

“This is similar to buying the last production year of an Edsel, Saturn, Oldsmobile, DeSoto or Mercury.  The cars were sold to people who knew there would be no dealer to service them. Buyer's choice. “ John.                

Actually not so much,  Ford honored the Edsel warranty,  any GM dealer took care of Saturn and Oldsmobile, Lincoln for Mercury and Chrysler did the warranty work for Desoto. No one was left out in the cold.  With MTH it will be interesting to see what evolves.

@Rusty Traque posted:

Well, we'll see.

However I don't think MTH's HO (or S and O) detail is up to Scale Trains standards.  They're more likely to be partnering with Rapido or Athearn Genesis.

Rusty

Well, Ill be darned. I was wrong.

Didn't think Scale Trains would pick up the MTH HO line.  At least they'll get real decoders now and not modified proprietary electronics.  I heard rumors about ST picking up the S scale line, but didn't put much stock in it.

Wrong again...

Scale Trains did not pick up  the MTH O or G tooling.

Rusty

via GIPHY

This guy will soon be in front of the "Going out of Business", but never quite closed MTH warehouse

@catnap posted:

My guess is that MTH is going to try to squeeze out as much product from existing tooling, namely locomotives, before the tooling goes away for good.

They've been making a lot of ES44AC's and DC's lately and the BNSF heritage units are the most recent. It seems like they have been cranking out a lot SD40-2's, GP38-2's and GP40's over the last couple of years so I wouldn't be surprised if there is another announcement for a small run of any of these models while they can still be made.

DITTO!

I'm not surprised the HO and S scale tooling were bought by ScaleTrains and the One-Gauge tooling was sold off to other entities. But regarding the O gauge tooling (RailKing & Premier) as well as the O Scale, Misc., and Railtown Buildings accessories - and DCS and Proto-Sound 3.0, everyone see the post here for a possible MTH future.

Having gone through this nearly exact same liquidation/new buyer situation multiple times while working for different companies (plus seeing how MTH is operating right now at this point in time) makes me think there is already a buyer lined up for the O gauge side of things.  There are most likely confidentiality agreements in place right now between buyer and seller until an announcement is made.  MTH is definitely not ripping the company apart right now to have a desperation fire sale situation and layoffs.  Something is going on behind the scenes that we (and most MTH employees) are not privy to just yet.  They don't look like a company that's doing a true liquidation to go out of business.  More like a company keeping selected operations going that a new owner will take over. 

@NIKHIL posted:

I'm not surprised the HO and S scale tooling were bought by ScaleTrains and the One-Gauge tooling was sold off to other entities. But regarding the O gauge tooling (RailKing & Premier) as well as the O Scale, Misc., and Railtown Buildings accessories - and DCS and Proto-Sound 3.0, everyone see the post here for a possible MTH future.

Was there an official announcement about the One Gauge tooling? If so, who was the buyer?

@Keith L posted:

Was there an official announcement about the One Gauge tooling? If so, who was the buyer?

@RJ I said, "LGB announced new F7s and passenger cars this week, which seem to be identical to the MTH toolings," but I'm not sure about the rest. But from this, I can guess that LGB bought a portion of the tooling

@Former Member posted:

Having gone through this nearly exact same liquidation/new buyer situation multiple times while working for different companies (plus seeing how MTH is operating right now at this point in time) makes me think there is already a buyer lined up for the O gauge side of things.  There are most likely confidentiality agreements in place right now between buyer and seller until an announcement is made.  MTH is definitely not ripping the company apart right now to have a desperation fire sale situation and layoffs.  Something is going on behind the scenes that we (and most MTH employees) are not privy to just yet.  They don't look like a company that's doing a true liquidation to go out of business.  More like a company keeping selected operations going that a new owner will take over.

@Former Member, that's funny - YOU HAVE THE SAME THOUGHTS AS I DO !!!! You have to see the post here - it makes the exact same point as yours.

Hey all,

With the announcement today by Scaletrains, here is my totally uninformed opinion. Actually, more of a wish list, but we will see.

First, I don’t see Lionel buying anything. They have a wealth of tooling, and I don’t see them needing overlap.

My belief is that MTH Premier and Railking locomotives will live on as a separate company. Something that is leaner then the current company and focused only on O-gauge/scale. And based on the video from Scaletrains, they had a lot of plans for more engines and cars in HO. This would lead me to believe that O-scale has plans also. New tooling would be nice.

The Railking buildings are questionable. I am not sure they are profitable enough to keep making, but I would hate to see them go.

Scaletrax is a great system for the profile of the rail in my opinion.  The other main systems have think rail that, while these systems work, don’t look as good as Scaletrax.  But, the main issue with Scaletrax is that the ties are spaced out too far for any modern mainline. Not sure this will be carried on in a new O-scale company. They would need to modify the tooling and make it more prototypical to make it viable in the market.

Now, DCS is living on, so why would DCS live on without engines to use it?  Yes, it has a large installed base, but I don’t see that justifying keeping it unless it had locos to go in. My biggest issue with the O-gauge/scale market is that there are too many systems. I prefer DCS, but it can be finicky with wiring for some. Honestly, I can see DCS moving closer to DCC, while keeping the two-way communication. Maybe we will see ProtoSound 4 soon with new features and compatibility that will pull the market to it.  

Again this is just my opinion, and many of you will have your own opinions. These are just my thoughts.

Fingers crossed guys. I imagine one of those big holding companies will take over what's left of MTH. It's all the same to me. I would just love to see MTH stick around in O Scale.

@NIKHIL posted:

@RJ I said, "LGB announced new F7s and passenger cars this week, which seem to be identical to the MTH toolings," but I'm not sure about the rest. But from this, I can guess that LGB bought a portion of the tooling

Not true. LGB(Marklin) has offered the F7 and US style passenger cars for some time. The LGB F7's are scaled larger than 1/32 scale (Gauge 1) MTH F7's although the gauge of the track is the same.

My main concern is DCS parts and support and parts for engines cars etc.

Item: I've forgotten the magazine that the cartoon was featured in, but you have a motorman operating a streetcar who proudly says to a rider, "We made so much $$$ off the Last Run that we didn't have to shut down afterall!" or something very close to this statement.

Any Old Head members who remember this cartoon please feel free to help me out in regards to the magazine and/or correct text.

However, you get the idea, and though it doesn't tell the entire MTH story in regards to exiting the hobby, still sortta puts it into perspective just the same don't you think?

Joe

Maybe this is like what happens in the world of rock and roll.  Older, classic rock groups like the Eagles, The Who, etc. announce “this is it, this is our Farewell Tour.”  “**** Freezes Over.”   They tour the world for two years, rake in $500 million or,some obscene amount, because their fans think OMG I’ll never get the chance to see them again.  And then three years later they come out of “retirement” to say, “welllll, maybe just one more time.”

Perhaps the next announcement from MTH will be a “**** Freezes Over” ES44DC!  

I'm pretty much not getting excited over any of this.  When the smoke clears and the facts come out, not the I heard from a reliable source folks, then I'll go from there.  Too many rumors, hopes, reliable sources, and info from the guy that cuts Mike's grass, makes for some interesting and fun reading but that's about it.  Until then if he can get a few more trains in the hands of those that want them then good for MTH!

@mike.caruso posted:

Maybe this is like what happens in the world of rock and roll.  Older, classic rock groups like the Eagles, The Who, etc. announce “this is it, this is our Farewell Tour.”  “**** Freezes Over.”   They tour the world for two years, rake in $500 million or,some obscene amount, because their fans think OMG I’ll never get the chance to see them again.  And then three years later they come out of “retirement” to say, “welllll, maybe just one more time.”

Thanks. That levity gives me a good start to the week. I'm looking forward to the Alice Cooper / Mike Wolf Farewell Tour.