MTH Carwash Problem....Need Help Please

Update:

Hooked up all the leads including the lighting system. Now everything works as long as I hold down the activation button through the entire sequence, but momentarily pressing the activation button will not start and sustain the entire automatic sequence. Any ideas?

GratefulBear

I had mine apart and if I remember right there are switches
at each stop. So I'm thinking that the second switch is stuck,
broken ect.

So when you hit the activation button again you bypass the switch
and off it goes to the next segment.

Be prepared to spend a couple hours dismantiling this thing as there
are a lot of screws.

The car is chain driven with all those end switches as I remember.

Good luck...

Bear, try the below link for hookup instructions... hopefully this info will help you in making it work properly.

http://www.mthtrains.com/sites...ction/30as12768i.pdf

Wow thanks..

I'll keep a copy of the PDF myself.
The circuit board diagram will be great for
troubleshooting...

Bear,

If you decide to open this one your self, keep a camera handy and take LOTS of pictures as you go! A notebook might not be a bad idea as well... Sometimes these things are harder to put back together than take apart!

Chris
LVHR

Bear, what you could do, on the underside of the car wash, there are several screws deeply recessed in the base, these are the ones that hold the building to the platform. Take those out, and make sure all of the plugs are in the circuit board (there are LOTS of them.). When you hook up the power wires to the underneath of the platform, the following sequence should work. Wire the tranformer wires to A and B, then use jumpers from A to D, and B to E. This will connect the light wires to the transformer. Your push button should go to C and A connection, and if you are just testing it, you can take the C wire and touch it to A. It should start up when the power is turned on the transformer, and go around the loop with no sounds. Then, when you touch C to A, it should have the car starting, move forward and have the cashier greet the driver, and go through the sequence. If this is brand new, as most door prizes are, you might have a microswitch under the platform stuck or a wire broken off one of the microswitches. At worst, the circuit board might be bad, which isn't as bad as it sounds, as they aren't frighteningly expensive, and are straightforward to change, as long as you take color photos of which plugs go where. Any questions, email or call me, will help as much as I can.

Thanks to all of you for your helpful suggestions!

SouthernRR: Thanks for the link to the MTH operating instructions. Unfortunately they are simply a duplicate of the operation manual that came with the accessory.

I've experimented with all the wiring suggestions and instructions, but nothing is changed. For some reason, possibly in the electronics, the momentary push of the activation button does not start the automated sequence as it should. It could be in the electronic board(s) somewhere as some of you have implied. Holding the activation button down continuously is the only way the accessory will go through its entire sequence including sound and smoke effects. Any momentary interruption in the power (like my finger slipping off the button) shuts down the audio and smoke components of the sequence and holding the button down continuously simply runs the accessory through the remaining electro-mechanical part of the sequence, ie. the car returns to the starting point and the car wash building door closes. With the exception of having to hold the button down continuously, that is normal operation.

One work-around fix that I am considering that would be relatively inexpensive is to replace the activation button with a simple single throw on-off switch that will send continuous power to the car wash without having to hold down the spring-loaded-to-off activation button that came with the accessory.

It is brand new in the box, donated to the Layout Building Seminar at York on Thursday morning in the Orange Hall by Andy Edelman of MTH, so it should be under warranty even though I don't have a receipt. I may take it down to Mizells in Westminster to see if Chuck Sartor can fix it and send the bill to MTH, but that seems a little like looking a gift horse in the mouth!

Again, I appreciate all the helpful suggestions.

Warmest regards,

StillFrustratedBear
I don't have a sales receipt

You just got it brand new. So why don't you send it back to MTH for repair?

Apologies to all who may have read this thread a month or so ago and come away with the erroneious idea that quality control might be a problem again with MTH products. I especially want to clear this up for anyone from MTH or their dealers who may have read this post.

After great frustration with the car wash's wiring, especially the inadequate and hard to decipher wiring DIAGRAM that came with my MTH "Bikini-version" car wash accessory, I finally threw up my hands and took it to MTH service technician extraordinaire, Chuck Sartor, at Mizell's Trains in Westminster, Colorado. He called me a few days later and told me that he couldn't find anything wrong with the car wash and that it works "as advertised".

Yesterday I went into his shop and he showed me how I had hooked it up wrong. He also did me the great service of drawing an easy to understand wiring schematic over the useless one in the MTH operating instructions. It turns out that of all the possible combinations of how to wire the accessory's 5 posts, apparently, I had frustratingly tried all but one! You guessed it, that was the one that was the correct one.

For the handful of you that might have experienced the same problem with your car washes, the secret is that the center spring clip is the one that the push button needs to be wired to from hot to common off the spring clips on the left side of the wiring panel when viewed facing the car wash building. Once wired this way, a momentary push of the button until the engine starting cycle of the sound effect is heard will then sustain the electronic control circuitry for a full cycle of the accessory's action. The two spring clips on the right are simply for the interior and signage lighting on the accessory. Chuck thinks they were designed into the wiring system this way in case an operator would want to wire an on/off switch into the circuitry for independent control of the car wash's lighting.

Please also note that although there is no mention of it in the operating instructions, Chuck told me that it makes no difference which of the left two spring clips is wired to hot or common from the transformer, it will work either way with no risk of damage to the accessory.

Hope that helps!

DemystifiedBear

quote:

Originally posted by Bearlead:

".........came ..... with my "Bikini-version" car wash ......."

DemystifiedBear

Now That sums up the whole problem! It's not "DemystifiedBear"; it's "DistractedBear"!!!

Bill

Bear. When was the last time you had an Eye Exam.

quote:

He also did me the great service of drawing an easy to understand wiring schematic over the useless one in the MTH operating instructions. It turns out that of all the possible combinations of how to wire the accessory's 5 posts, apparently, I had frustratingly tried all but one! You guessed it, that was the one that was the correct one.

For the handful of you that might have experienced the same problem with your car washes, the secret is that the center spring clip is the one that the push button needs to be wired to from hot to common off the spring clips on the left side of the wiring panel when viewed facing the car wash building.

Bear,
Could you be kind enough to post the easy to understand wiring schematic so that those who wish, could print it out in case they need it at a later date?

Jim,
The instructions that come with the car wash are extremely simple and easy to understand. After reading the posts about how bad they were I went and downloaded them to see where MTH could have messed up. I have several of the operating buildings and found them some of the easiest to wire in. Since we have a houseful of kids for the holiday and the instructions are the same as the instructions for the gas station, I gave 5 of the kids the instructions, a z-1000, wire and the gas station and had each one try to wire it. Each kid wired it correctly, and in under 4 minutes! Oh their ages 4 - 11 years old. Maybe the warning should be Not for ages OVER 13!

Maybe you can explain why the wiring instructions for Mel's Diner reads just like the rest, the activation button being wired to A & C. However, the diagram shows something different? Namely the activation button being wired to A & B. Or is it D & E? MTH needs to revise the drawing in these instructions as it is very confusing for those of us over the age of 13 that can't read.

Straight from the MTH Instructions:


A Connect Red wire to transformer AC and connect Black wire to activation button
B Connect Black wire to transformer ground
C Connect Black wire to activation button
D Connect Red wire to transformer AC
E Connect Black wire to transformer ground


While the center of the picture only shows 4 clips the blow up of the clip area shows the correct 5 clips and with each labeled as is the accessory. Pretty clear if you follow the instructions I think. But we all process what we see differently I guess.

I think what Bear was saying is this and a couple of other large MTH accessories, the wiring as shown in the instructions are more complex than they need be. The 2 lighting posts, D&E really don't need seperate wires running back to the transformer. As a operator, I really don't see the purpose of wanting the lighting on a seperate circuit. If you are not familiar with the wiring of the accessory, you fallow the wiring diagram. The instruction book doesn't mention like Train Doctor pointed out, you can run short 2 inch jumpers from A-D and B-E and save running 2 more wires back to the transformer if you don't want the lights on a seperate circuit.
Chuck

Yep you can do it that way Chuck. I think MTH did the wiring instructions the way they did so the lights could be on without needing to activate the operational part as that is the way it was designed. I have the Sinclair Station and the Firehouse. I wired mine so the lights are on when all the buildings around them have their lights on. I didn't want it dark when every other building is lit.

quote:

But we all process what we see differently I guess.

Guess so.
Personally, I think it would have been better for everyone if MTH would provide a proper wiring diagram to show where each wire goes.

The wiring instructions to my MTH operating Macdonalds restaurant werent any better then yours. They make great accessories but not so great wiring diagrams

quote:

He also did me the great service of drawing an easy to understand wiring schematic over the useless one in the MTH operating instructions.

Well Bear, can you share that drawing with us?

I'll tell the "VaDuffer" not to look.

to paraphrase the great Groucho Marks "These instructions are so simple a five year old child could understand them... run out and get me a five year old child , I can't make heads or tales of them!"

quote:

Originally posted by Big Jim:

quote:

He also did me the great service of drawing an easy to understand wiring schematic over the useless one in the MTH operating instructions.

Well Bear, can you share that drawing with us?

I'll tell the "VaDuffer" not to look.

I also would like to see the diagram.

thanks

Steve

IN FUN,..........
Hi Bear!
So, you can fly a jet fighter but you can't wire an accesory?

quote:

Originally posted by R.R.:
IN FUN,..........
Hi Bear!
So, you can fly a jet fighter but you can't wire an accesory?

That's pretty funny! We've all had similar situations.

--Greg

Can you post a pic of the wiring diagram because I am still lost.

 Allright, what seems obvious to some, eludes me too.

 The phrase right away, "A connect red wire to transformer AC and connect Black wire to activation button" does not match the picture! I'm sure to you electrical guys it makes sense. Do you connect the A terminal to the transformer and the switch???

 For us simplier guys, a full diagram on exactly where the wires should go would be worth a thousand confusing words.....

 I believe they left off a step. They're explaining the instructions by lettered steps that may leave off a key wire???

the pic shows the switch connected to A and C. I believe that's where the confusion is, at least for me. I can't believe that no one can answer a simple request. If a picture is impossible maybe someone (5 yrs old) could draw it with crayons??

these are great accessory's

 Ahhh, that's it...

"

Wally,

 

I hope this helps

Connect A - to transformer AC (Positive)

also Connect A - to one side of activation button (NOTE: you need 2 wires on A)

Connect B - to transformer AC (Ground)

Connect C - to other side of activation button

Connect D - to transformer AC (Positive)activationbutton

Connect E - to transformer AC (Ground)

 

D & E control the lighting

 

A-B-C control the mechanism

I sure am glad all these accessories get wired the same, or that could be real confusing.