MTH DCS & Lionel Legacy Control & Effects Equivalent in Other Gauges/Scales?

DCC can drive all the special effects and even offer a greater number of sound sets. The main restriction is there is far less room in the smaller sizes, at least, for the multiple steam effects.

Pete

DCC? Is that a proprietary control system, or open architecture available to all scales/gauges?

I guess one of the things that comes to mind is, how do the fit the same electronics (that cram the O-gauge diesel engine housings) into the smaller HO or N shells?

DCC is short for digital command control, and it is a standardized protocol internationally used widely in Z, N, HO and large scale. It is available in some MTH PS3 locos in O gauge, in some 2 rail O gauge locos and in some S gauge locos.  While each manufacturer has its own unique decoders and sound capabilities for locos and handheld remotes, there is compatibility amongst these varied products.  Most HO and N gauge manufacturers make locos available with DCC (or straight DC operation but DCC ready if you add a decoder).  The price differential between straight DC locos and DCC/Sound equipped is usually in the $100-150 range. Lots of ready to run stuff now available, fairly similar in principle to Lionel's Legacy/TMCC/LionChief and MTH's locos using DCS/PS2/PS3.

Speakers in HO and N gauge locos are usually not as large, and thus not as good at producing low frequency (bass) sounds, but most folks are happy with what's available.  The electronics for HO and N are more compact because the current capacity needed is much lower than in three rail O gauge.  Similar capabilities, and many more vendors.   Your friend might look at HO and N gauge locos from Atlas, Broadway Limited, Rapido, Bachmann, Athearn and Kato, for starters. The most popular DCC controllers are those made by NCE (North Coast Engineering) and Digitrax in the USA.  MRC also does these (handheld controllers) and Bachman has a proprietary system that works with DCC too.  As does Marklin in HO/large scale and LGB in large scale.  Many companies make decoders for DCC upgrades as well as for sound.  Check out these companies' websites for more details and visuals.

DCC systems usually are hard wired (tethered to the track) but radio frequency versions are available, albeit more expensive.  As you noted, open architecture allows lots of variations and makes it less expensive for decoders and beginner level startup systems.

@Landsteiner posted:

DCC is short for digital command control, and it is a standardized protocol internationally used widely in Z, N, HO and large scale. It is available in some MTH PS3 locos in O gauge, in some 2 rail O gauge locos and in some S gauge locos.  While each manufacturer has its own unique decoders and sound capabilities for locos and handheld remotes, there is compatibility amongst these varied products.  Most HO and N gauge manufacturers make locos available with DCC (or straight DC operation but DCC ready if you add a decoder).  The price differential between straight DC locos and DCC/Sound equipped is usually in the $100-150 range. Lots of ready to run stuff now available, fairly similar in principle to Lionel's Legacy/TMCC/LionChief and MTH's locos using DCS/PS2/PS3.

Speakers in HO and N gauge locos are usually not as large, and thus not as good at producing low frequency (bass) sounds, but most folks are happy with what's available.  The electronics for HO and N are more compact because the current capacity needed is much lower than in three rail O gauge.  Similar capabilities, and many more vendors.   Your friend might look at HO and N gauge locos from Atlas, Broadway Limited, Rapido, Bachmann, Athearn and Kato, for starters. The most popular DCC controllers are those made by NCE (North Coast Engineering) and Digitrax in the USA.  MRC also does these (handheld controllers) and Bachman has a proprietary system that works with DCC too.  As does Marklin in HO/large scale and LGB in large scale.  Many companies make decoders for DCC upgrades as well as for sound.  Check out these companies' websites for more details and visuals.

DCC systems usually are hard wired (tethered to the track) but radio frequency versions are available, albeit more expensive.  As you noted, open architecture allows lots of variations and makes it less expensive for decoders and beginner level startup systems.

Great information, thanks.

So safe to say that, say, a GP9 with all the bells and whistles, so to speak, would cost about the same in HO or N as it would in O gauge? And how bad are the diesel horn sounds in HO and N? I know for a fact that was the one thing that lit him up like a pinball machine. If I were to tell him that he couldn't have a similar diesel horn it would break his heart, lol.

Landsteiner pretty well covered HO and N scale. If your friend has an interest in S gauge there are several options. Most S scale operators use DC (no sounds) or DCC. There are higher current decoders available for use with dual motor S gauge engines and higher power boosters available. Otherwise it is the same as HO.

High rail S gauge operators use either conventional power/control or Legacy or FlyerChief. FlyerChief is the same as LionChief Plus. There are a number of FlyerChief engines made in S gauge and many operators find this system simple to use and adequate for their needs.

S gauge Legacy is the same as O gauge Legacy with one important addition. Legacy engines made since 2013 are also DCC compatible. They can be run and controlled with a DCC controller, all Legacy functions work except the electrocouplers. Also, any MTH S gauge engine (there are not many) can also be operated with DCC.

The largest source of new S gauge engines after Lionel is American Models. These are made conventional. They can be retrofit with either DCC or TMCC/Railsounds.

Lastly, all TMCC and Legacy engines can be run conventional. Most of the sounds can be actuated with just a Bell and a Whistle button.

"So safe to say that, say, a GP9 with all the bells and whistles, so to speak, would cost about the same in HO or N as it would in O gauge? And how bad are the diesel horn sounds in HO and N? "

A DCC sound equipped GP9 or similar diesel will probably cost less than an MTH Premier or Lionel Legacy loco with similar features.  Perhaps $250-350 rather than $500-700 as a rough guess.  There are less expensive HO models by Atlas and Bachmann and more high end models from Broadway Limited and Rapido, so costs can vary somewhat.

The diesel horns in HO and N are pretty good these days on most DCC/sound equipped locos, but I haven't made direct comparisons.  Not quite as full throated as the O gauge models might be a reasonable statement.  Best bet is for him to visit a local hobby shop and hear these features himself. Still a few shops in the LA/SD areas, or perhaps visit the Balboa Park layouts and have the members demonstrate their models. There are, as you probably know O gauge, HO and N layouts there.

@Landsteiner posted:

Best bet is for him to visit a local hobby shop and hear these features himself. Still a few shops in the LA/SD areas, or perhaps visit the Balboa Park layouts and have the members demonstrate their models. There are, as you probably know O gauge, HO and N layouts there.

Great advice, I completely forgot about the Balboa Park layouts.

FOLLOW UP:

So my friend (let's call him Joe) decided that he would like to get his feet wet in N-scale. Joe made that decision based on space limitations. I did some research and, based on generally highly favorable reviews, ordered a Kato M2 track & transformer set and F7 train set off of Amazon...I figured if we were disappointed it would be easy to return.

So yesterday we set them up for the first time. I have to tell you I am mightily impressed with this stuff. This is NOTHING like the N-scale stuff I messed with thirty years ago. Cost for everything was around $320. The Kato F7 is incredibly smooth and is able to creep at an extremely slow pace. The detail on the engine and rolling stock is amazing and the workmanship appears top notch. The Unitrack snaps (and holds) together easily and seems to be a great compromise between practical & realistic. This may be entry level stuff but the quality seems much better than that.

(Side thought - is all N-scale this good now? Or is Kato above average?)

Joe is all in so far; my biggest concern was because of the small size he might have difficulty handling the equipment, but he had no problem at all with assembling the track, getting the cars railed on the track, nor with coupling/uncoupling. The next step is to get a DCC/sound diesel locomotive for an 'audition' (he is really big on the sound effects). Fortunately I have an MTH DCS Commander console, which I believe can be used with DCC.

Truth be told, if I were starting out from scratch with the hobby I might be inclined to go back to N-scale. As it is, I'm already thinking of gathering up some N-scale equipment for myself, (for research, of course, lol).

Then again, would it be so bad to model both O- and N-scale at once?

Don’t forget about the motor control in DCC decoders. The different cv options allow for very slow and smooth operations. My large scale locomotives can be set to run slow enough that you can barely see them move. Plus the sounds are programmable. I run both Legacy and DCC and wish that Lionel went with DCC

@FortyFivePalms posted:

(Side thought - is all N-scale this good now? Or is Kato above average?)

Kato is on the upper end of the scale, typically their stuff is pretty nice.

"Kato is on the upper end of the scale, typically their stuff is pretty nice."

Similar locos from Broadway Limited, Scale Trains, Atlas and Rapido also have high quality detail, operation and sound (if desired).  If anything Atlas and Kato are slightly less expensive than the others.  Typical DCC/sound equipped locos are in the $300 plus range for diesels and $500 plus for steam locos, as a generalization.  DC only/DCC ready locos are about 100-200 dollars less.

I have dabbled in n scale for the past 20 years, and Kato locomotives are my favorite.  They are smooth running and I have yet to have an issue with any of them.  However I have owned Bachmann, Atlas, and Broadway Limited and haven't had any issues with any of them.  For my DCC command station, I use a NCE Power Cab.  It is very simple and easy to use.  It is expandable (depending on your needs) and has been trouble free for me.  I also use Kato Unitrack.  If I were starting over again in N scale, I wouldn't change a thing.