MTH/DCS Disappointment

Thanks Dave,

Strange thing was that it was not possible to reset my loco using either Conventional mode or the full-blown high-dollar DCS system, what saved the day was the little cheapy infrared system out of an MTH entry level train set.

I'm still a bit uncomfortable not knowing what actually caused the problem, was it an anomaly in my loco's board, or what? I really don't believe the club has ever run any multi-unit loco sets on our modules, the layout is really too small for that to be very satisfying. There has been talk of updating the system with the latest software, but since everything was working fine (up to my loco), the club has been reluctant to open that can of worms, since one member had his system updated to the newest software and then couldn't run any of his older locos. Supposedly, he then had to reinstall the software in each loco's board before they would come back online And operate correctly.

Bill in FtL

Dave, Based on the narrative they never did a recover engine.  Plus the remote cdr starter set has to have an engine with ID 1.

I do suspect that the DCS signal may not have been turned off for conventional, but we don't know much about shops test track.

I always test conventional without a TIU in the picture.

The engine must start up to do a conventional reset though.  You will get 2 toots when done correctly confirming reset was accepted.

I can't fathom why DCS could not find engine, but the Remote CDR could.  The signal is usually weaker with the Remote CDR.  So procedurally, something must have been done wrong at the shop.

If I was the shop tech, I would have it load on a test track in DCS and test signal strength.  If less then 10 I would open shell and make sure wiring is not near signal transformer (known issue).

Also make sure center rail pickup screws are nickel, not black, and check the ground wiring screws for good continuity.

Either there is some engine  intermittent power when testing in conventional, or the shop isn't testing correctly.   G

since one member had his system updated to the newest software and then couldn't run any of his older locos.

As I said above, that doesn't ring right.  DCS has always been upwards and downwards compatible among the various software releases.  It would be good if you could get the details direct from that individual and post them.

Bill,

Strange thing was that it was not possible to reset my loco using either Conventional mode or the full-blown high-dollar DCS system, what saved the day was the little cheapy infrared system out of an MTH entry level train set.

That's just not likely at all. Any PS2 engine that's not broken can be reset via any MTH transformer that has a bell and horn/whistle button, as well as via most other transformers. The timing is 1/2 second button presses with 1/2 second pauses in-between.

In order to perform a DCS Factory Reset, one needs to be able to load the engine into the DCS Remote. It's sounding likely that the engine simply had its DCS ID# changed through some event (unknown to you) to something outside of the normal DCS range. Using DCS 4.20 (or higher), I suspect that you could have recovered the engine and then added it to the DCS Remote.

since one member had his system updated to the newest software and then couldn't run any of his older locos. Supposedly, he then had to reinstall the software in each loco's board before they would come back online And operate correctly.

Complete and utter nonsense. If you really believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.  

Barry, I thought you sold that bridge last month.

As noted, I agree with you on the urban legend.  I hope Bill can get more details.

Robert,

I hope Bill can get more details.

It's baloney. Don't waste your time or Bill's. Just move on.

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your help. I don't know what to tell you, but the guys at the LHS tried to reset the loco to factory defaults using Conventional mode (I watched as they disconnected the TIU when they tried this) and it wouldn't work. Trying to do it with the DCS/TIU system resulted only in the "loco not found" message, so a DCS reset wasn't possible. Why the Remote CDR was able to make it work, I don't know, but it seems that it did. By the way, it is a PS3 loco, not a PS2.

Currently, the loco shows as address #13 in the shop's controller, so I will take it back tomorrow and have them try to reset it to factory specs using the Remote Commander. From what I've read in the posts above, the Remote Commander should not be able to reset a loco programmed to an address other than #1 (the factory default address), correct?

As for the problems our club member had upgrading his DCS system, I can only relate what he told me, I wasn't there. I will tell you that the guy is a retired television station engineer who knows and understands more electronics than I ever will, and I believe he was sincere in telling me his story.

So far, I must say that I am not very favorably impressed with DCS. It may be very powerful and able to do more things than other digital systems as you say in your book, but I feel this comes at the cost of being overly complicated and quirky, especially when most of those things it can do are things I'm not interested in. I have been a casual user of DCC in HO and S scales since 1993, and I find it to be far more reliable and easier to understand than DCS. Maybe I will feel differently after reading your book.

Bill in FtL

Bill,

the loco shows as address #13 in the shop's controller, so I will take it back tomorrow and have them try to reset it to factory specs using the Remote Commander. 

Just use the DCS Remote: Menu/Advanced/Reset Engine/Factory Reset, select the engine and press the thumbwheel twice.

However, why do you need to reset the engine at all?

From what I've read in the posts above, the Remote Commander should not be able to reset a loco programmed to an address other than #1 (the factory default address), correct?

It resets it to the Factory Default ID#, period. That's the only way that the DCS Remote Commander can operate the engine.

As for the problems our club member had upgrading his DCS system, I can only relate what he told me, I wasn't there. I will tell you that the guy is a retired television station engineer who knows and understands more electronics than I ever will, and I believe he was sincere in telling me his story.

I'm sure that he was sincere. I'm also sure that he was mistaken.

Probably, I don't really need to reset it, but in discussing the situation, we were thinking it might be better to start with the factory default the next time I take it to the club, especially since I have no way to run it yet at home. Then there's the curiosity thing...

Bill in FtL

The problem will be to find what addresses other members are using for their locos.  Does the club have a protocol for setting loco ID numbers?  Then, before operating, use the method Barry just described to set your loco to a vacant ID number, using thd remote you will be using at the club.

 Engine IDs stick with the engine unless edited to a different address or  factory reset. .  If 2 club members have engines with the same ID (say 13) you could just take one of them off the track or park it on a dead track.  Just an option with  no need to do anything else. I'm assuming the club's tiu has the same ID as yours (probably tiu #1)

I'm an experienced dcs user and would probably  do it the way RJR suggests. (edit the address to a vacant ID)

BTway.. glad to hear there's nothing seriously wrong.

Bill,  When you go back, you need to look for more information when they test this.

Does the engine start up in conventional?  It should after the Supercaps charge (30-45sec.).  Does it run in conventional?  At that point they can do the conventional reset which is like a feature reset.

At that point they can go to DCS.  I am not sure why your engine got set to #13, but that means they probably have other engines loaded in the Remote.  So they could have had similar issues as the club depending on what was in the remote.

For testing it is best to have a clear remote to minimize variables.

I will restate, there is no way your engine could be recognized and run or reset on the Remote CDR with any address other then the factory default setting.

So I assume they ran it in DCS after the reset to get the address to 13.  G

Bill,

Resetting your engine will not solve the club problem. All it will do is make you feel like you're accomplishing something when you actually are not..

I don't think they have any protocols for dealing with handhelds at all (probably would be akin to herding cats!). The few controllers we have, the individual members bring from home, so they already have their own locos on them. What is the best protocol for a club situation dealing with remotes? Should every remote be wiped clean at the beginning of a session?

I'm still not sure I understand this, does any handheld plugged into the system need to have identical lists of loco addresses, or does a conflict only occur when the same address slot (possibly each with a different loco) is selected by both controllers at the same time? Or, if each handheld has a different loco in slot 6 for example, but only one controller selects slot 6 (assuming the appropriate loco is on the track), will there be a conflict between the two handhelds?

I thought I posted this before I left this morning, but somehow it didn't get posted...

Bill in FtL

does a conflict only occur when the same address slot (possibly each with a different loco) is selected by both controllers at the same time

That's it.  The remote tells the TIU to direct loco #6 to do something, and all #6's try to react.

All remotes needn't have all locos on the layout entered into it.  Not being a member of a club, I don't know how to set things up.  Gut reaction is that the club should assign a block of numbers to each person, and each person should reset his/her own locos at home.  Problem with trying to do it at a club meeting is that the remote's signal will be read by all turned-on TIUs, whether connected to the layout or not.

Herd them cats.

Short answer... The remote looks for ID numbers. If there are 3 engines with the same ID,  the engines   will all  run at the same time and do the same thing. With 3 remotes  each remote could take over the engine  , the engine obeys the last command given. This is not good.(it's actually kind of fun with a newbie)( WTF)

Some clubs assign ID numbers to the members and that takes care of any ID conflicts.

There are 100 IDs  so it shouldn't be too much of a problem unless you're bring all your engine to the club, I doubt that very much.

We have a list at our layout of the engines and their ID number . guests  can edit their engines to an open ID or we can just  park one of our engines on a dead track if it has the same ID.

 No need to clear the remotes.

Hope this helps a bit-- fire away with the questions.

Hi GGG,

After taking ithe loco to the LHS the other day and getting it reset, the engine now seems to be OK. After the reset, it ran in Conventional mode, and then they checked it out in DCS mode and it seemed to run fine (that's how it got set to address 13, which I believe it is still set to). All I know is that prior to being reset by the Remote CDR, the shop's DCS system couldn't find the loco, but after the Remote CDR reset it, it could be found by the big system. I don't know what address the loco was set to before the reset, but after trying it at the club on Saturday, it wouldn't run in either DCS or Conventional, then after having it sit without power over the rest of the weekend, on Tuesday at the LHS it ran in Conventional mode when we first tried it, but after the first attempt at running it with the big DCS system (which failed), it stopped working in Conventional mode, too. That's when we tried the Remote Commander as a last ditch effort.

Bill in FtL

Barry,

I understand, but sometimes, that feeling, even if it's incorrect, can be a help!

Bill in FtL