MTH Diesels

You can tell by the MTH item number whether it is "Hi-Rail" or "2-Rail".

 

If the item number ends with a "-1" it is "Hi Rail wheels" and will have swinging pilots and lobster claw couplers for 3-Rail.

 

If the item number ends with a "-2" it is already set-up for 2-Rail, with 2-Rail "Scale Wheels", and fixed pilots (you must ins tally your scale size couplers of choice).

Thanks Hot Water, that tells me what I need to know.
Al

I don't know what era you're modeling, but have you looked at Atlas or Weaver 2 rail diesels?

Am modeling late Chessie,but mostly CSX. 
I'd love to find ready for the track 2rl diesels in these roads but thee's just nothing around.
Thanks,
Al

Hi Alan.

 

To add to what Hot Water said, also look for the newer "Protosound 3" (Proto-3) diesels with the "-2" suffix in the part number. Reason is that these will give you the most operational flexibility because they run on AC, DC, DCS, and DCC so you don't have to modify the locomotive to operate it under DCC should you go with that command protocol. They can also be switched to run 3-rail (2-rail/3-rail mode switch and included pickup rollers) provided you have 36" radius (O-72) or better curves with "flat-top" rail like Atlas.

 

Also, they locomotives are set up to accept the Kadee #806 and #743 short-box/short-shank couplers using 2mmx8mm mounting screws (screws normally included with the engine).

Thank you Matt for the additional input.
Al

Atlas has produced 2-rail engines in Chessie System paint, as well as predecessor roads and CSX.  

 

Sd40

 

U23b

 

The issue is of course whether these models can be found currently at a dealer, ebay, or online for sale board.  Happy hunting!

 

Jim

That's the issue,Ji,happy hunting. I've seen the 2rail versions fantastic stuff just not any for sale&if 1 happens to come along you better have 3 fistfulls of cash to outbid 30 other hunters. now 3 rail there seems to be a glut of that.
Thanks for the additional info.
Al

Al,

I misread your earlier post about era and road, seeing Chessie rather than CSX.  Atlas also offers the mp15dc in CSX.  

 

I'm always on the lookout for the mp15dc switchers.  I don't worry about the road names, and I still have a hard time finding 2-rail versions at decent prices.  But I have managed to acquire several.  Fortunately, I'm not on a schedule and can wait around for them.  But yes, past run Atlas can be hard to find.  Hopefully as they smooth out issues from the supplier switch, they will start offering new runs of more of their engines.

 

Jim

I spoke to Atlas a couple months back&they mentioned doing a GP40.(?) Who knows we can only hope.
Al

Why not attend some 2-rail O-scale only swap meets?   You might find what you want there.   The Chicago "March Meet" is the best.   There are a nuumber of smaller meets around the country during the year.  

 

Also, consider looking at O Scale Trains magazine in addition to our sponsors.   They tend to focus on 2 rail and may have adverstisers that have what you need.  

Al NJ.
 I'd like to spend a week at a train meet,but can't find any that're close. Indianapolis&Chicago are closest to me,but I've been to Indy&there's a lot of construction down there. My wife had to be taken down to Methodist Hospital at Indiana University in April for a week. Thankfully everything went well&she was ok it wasn't what the doc's said at all. But that's quite a place. There's just no groups in O Scale or any scale I know of near or in my town of Bremen,IN. Those meets would surely be the place to go though.
 
Al

I am quite pleased with my new MTH Proto 3.0 CSX AC4400CW model (3-rail version).

 

Runs and sounds great on DCS.

Alan:

 

There's an MTH Scale-wheeled Chessie U25B with Proto-3 on eBay right now. I've run Proto-3 under DCC in 2-rail and it works great, just in case you want to go in that direction. Again,the key is Proto-3.

 

It's Here

 

Matt:
I have an offering of a Genset 2 rail in CSX or the Chessie GP30s. The 30s are Proto3,while the Genset's Proto 2. The Chessies will require the scale wheel change over package for 2 rl which if prices are correct will be $40 for each diesel. According to the listing,each GP30 will run $419 each but Proto 3 is loaded with features.
Al

Oh. Didn't know you had stuff in the pipeline. Are the Genset's scale-wheeled units that were switched over to hi-rail wheels, or are they the hi-rail units. If the latter, some work is required to fix the pilots. I didn't recall the GP30 being offered with scale wheels/fixed pilots, but I'd definitely like to see MTH produce them.

No Matt,I haven't purchased anything yet,but 1 hobby shop has the CSX Genset in 2 rail.
 
The MTH diesels are in 3 rail,the ebayer offering them says they're 2 rail ready,but they have the #1 after their item #,so that means they're going to need the 2 rail wheel changeover package.
 
I haven't bought anything yet,close but nothing certain. Weghing everything out,I'm still wondering if I'd be best in the long haul to sell my collection of O Scale,cut my losses&stay in HO. This isn't at all what I want but????
Think I'll subscribe to the O Scale Magazine for a few months&see what happens.
It's this uncertainty that drives me crazy. I have to sell my HO to get established in O,but nothing sells,&short of the Model Railroad Forum,"For Sale or Trade," or ebay,these are my only avenues for selling,&neither place sell anything in any volume,just an isolated item over a month.
 But this is where i stand with the diesels still looking.
 
Al

Hi Matt,

 

The GP30 was done with Proto 3/2 trucks but not with fixed pilots. I asked MTH why and they said changing over to the 3/2 truck was an easy low cost update, but scale pilots would require new tooling. So I wouldn't expect to see a fixed pilot version anytime soon. You can of course fix the pilots yourself, change handrails, and mount Kadees. Then just flip the switch.

I'm confused as always,but you need to know I was born that way&haven't made a lot of headway since.
Is fixing the pilots for O scale gping to be an issue for 2 rail? Will mounting Protocraft or similar couplers be a problem as far as the couplers staying in line&keeping the proper height? If the pilots aren't stationary,installing release levers to operate the couplers will be an issue probably though I can use a magnetic wand on the diesels couplers instead of cut levers.
 
So is a changeout of the wheels still needed?
Al

 Ok here goes!

All MTH diesel premier models (only premier!) with a -2 at the end, come with fixed pilots ready to accept KD boxes and have scale insulated two rail wheels already installed.

 All premier diesel engines with the 3/2 capability that are hi rail(-1 at the end) models, have three rail wheels that will short out two rail layouts and have huge flanges that won't track anyways.

 These engines have floating pilots with the huge lobster claw type three rail couplers that won't look right either.

 So you can swap out the wheels on these, but you will need to do work to mount the couplers and probably will want to fix the pilots.

 All MTH steamers should be bought with scale wheels (-2) to run on two rail layouts period. They are tough to change over.

 All older MTH engines that were pre- 3/2 capability, are tougher because you need some mechanical help to get the wheels swapped out. You'll also need to add two rail power pickups of some kind for the new wheels.

 Does that help, or did I make it worse???

 Please ask, fire away!!

 All MTH two rail engines that have the -2 on the end, are ready for two rail track. You just need to add your own KD couplers.

 PS3 engines are DCC on board capable.

 PS2 engines are not DCC capable and run with DC, AC, and DCS.

 The oldest PS1 two rail MTH engine would run on two rail but DC only. They have no decoder inside for sound, just a small circuit board. The three rail PS1 models had sound.

 Matt's and Hot Water's posts above are better at deciphering this but Hey! I'm confusing myself with my posts......

One correction, Joe. The hi-rail engines will run on 2-rail as the axles are insulated. They'll have an interesting time with a scale turnout, though.

I always found it confusing and misleading when viewing the MTH -2 models on the MTH site.  I'm guessing they just use the same picture with the swinging pilots for most models.  But some actually show the scale fixed pilot versions.  I have trouble forking over that kind of money without "seeing" what I'm getting.  Hopefully they get better at this.

The do put a disclaimer at the front of the Premier section making the reference to the fixed pilots vs. moving pilots. The most recent catalog has change the prefix from "20" to "22" for scale-wheeled items, but you're right, the illustrations are for the hi-rail models since they use the single image for both models. Atlas kind does this, but in reverse. The rolling stock photos Atlas posts are a wild card with 2-rail and 3-rail images being mixed for the different paint schemes of a particular car.

Thanks for the info this helps.
As I was reading I thought to myself before I finished reading your post,that for the most part,Atlas does things in reverse for their diesels at least. They show the fixed pilot version, A few on ebay show the swinging pilot.
Thanks again everyone.
Al

Atlas diesel locomotive models with "swinging pilots" are strictly 3-Rail, whereas those models with scale wheels and fixed pilots are strictly 2-Rail.

This I know,but it seems a lot of Atlas' 3rail diesels are pictured with the 2rl fixed pilot.
Al

Thanks Matt.

I should have said that the older -1 models will short it out. I forget a lot of stuff,..... more than I know??

Would one think it easier for a manufacturer build a 3 rail engine and re dye it to a 2 rail later or is the converse more likely? It has been so nice that Atlas and Mth make the 2 rail fixed pilots. Now, if  we can get more engine production out of Atlas O.

 

Phil

Of course, as that is just great advertising. I'm pretty sure none of the 2-Rail SCALE modelers really want to see that huge "lobster claw" coupler.

To be correct, Atlas O will "up-grade" any 3-Rail diesel model to fixed pilots and scale couplers, for a fairly hefty fee. As a 3RS modeler, I have never understand the philosophy at Atlas for NOT accepting advanced pre-orders for 3-Rail models WITH fixed pilots and full length hand rails. This subject has been discussed with members of management at Atlas, to no avail.

There's such an oversupply of 3 rail diesels on ebay,would it be possible to buy a DC only model with no TMCC&buy 2 rail,"guts," so to speak,to change this unit over?
Al

Sure sounds awfully expensive to me, even if you could purchase all the necessary parts directly from Atlas. I can't believe that there aren't SOME dealers in O SCALE that don't have some stock on various 2-Rail Atlas diesels. How about Norm's O Scale, or P&D Hobby Shop?

Hot Water:
I found the Genset CSX 2 rail 2 Norm's;just checked P&D,(thanks for the name of the shop,never heard of it b4),but they got nothing i'm looking for either. It's like 2railsort of just up&died in a puff of smoke as far as product line in diesels that I want except for pictures of what "was 1 day" shall I say?
 Gonna try&mow some yard&rest my brain what little there is. (What little there's left of my brain,I meant).
Thank you.
Al

Sorry, but what ever you are typing on sure is difficult to read.

Welcome to my world.

While this is true, the real feature your looking for is the 3 rail 2 rail capability.  Even the MTH -1 Hi Rail engines with 3R/2R have insulated wheel sets that allow you to switch between 2R and 3R operation with the flick of a switch and removing the center rail pickups.   G