MTH engine won't run

this may be ithttp://www.mthtrains.com/content/30-1144-1     http://www.mthtrains.com/sites...ction/30st13806i.pdf  http://www.mthtrains.com/sites...loded/30st13806e.pdf   http://64.251.10.24/~worldofw/...tml/buy=1/item=12711

The burn spot on the rails indicates something is shorted.  The fact that the band that holds the wiring for the motor down melted indicates that motor stalled or something jammed the gears, probably cooking the electronics in the process.  If one of the motors or power trucks stopped, it will scrub off the traction tires in short order.

How about the exact MTH model number from the box?

The model is 30-1144-1.  I took the cab off and both motors turn free.  There is no sign of damage except the burn rubber band that was on the motor next to the printed circuit board and smoke generator.  The smoke generator works but that is the only sign of life.

Glen,

Are the motors black inside? You should see a nice bright copper and a green end. If they are black then something burned up the motors and might have caused more damage.

Ralph

Both motors have bright copper flywheels and the rest is a clean silver color.  No burns.  I did have the engine connected to an MTH rail car with S.P. Daylight colors and the number 6002B on the side.  This car has an electric plug compatible with the the plug on the broken locomotive.  Is there the possibility that something in that car caused a short? 

It's a good possibility. The only thing that should be connected to the engine is the tender it came with. Not all the plugs are wired the same. With the motors though there should be a opening in the can. If you shine a light in there you will either see that it's all black inside or it's green and not burnt. But if you hooked up something other than the tender to the engine that is most likely what did the damge. At this point I would look for a tech near you and have them look at it.

Ralph

What's the status of the battery. If it's a 1999 catalog item and has never been out of the box I would think that the battery in the tender is long dead.

 I used a flashlight and looked inside the motors.  Both are have bright shinny windings and I could see green on the end.  I can take the motors out one at a time and test them with a 9 volt battery.

Actually, you can just unplug the motor connector and then test them with a battery, no reason to take them out.

Did the tender come with the engine, as shown in the picture Alan Stephen posted?

If so, why would you try to plug the engine into anything besides the proper tender?

If the manual came with the engine, you may want to give it a read.

Otherwise you can probably download it from the MTH website. Search for the product number you provided off the box.

Rod

BTW, the engine won't run at all without the tender.

The smoke unit will because it is wired directly to the power pickup rollers.

All the electronics that power the motors and make sounds are in the tender.

Rod

The last advice was the best advice.  I had no idea that the tender was required for the engine to run.  The box the engine and tender came in did not have any paperwork so I just plugged it in.  I had another MTH tender that didn't come with an engine and it had the same plug so I plugged it in.  It didn't work.  I thought I had possibly burned up something in the engine.  I tried to run the engine but only the smoke worked.  This morning I hooked up the correct tender and the engine works great.  Thank you all for the help.  I have now downloaded and read the directions that would have come with the engine.

Last thing, make sure you go replace that battery!  If you never try to do any of the reset options, you will most likely be okay with a bad battery, but if you decide to try doing any of the reset programming, replace that battery.

Good Call Rod, Sometimes we assume the obvious.  Depending on the make of the other tender (if MTH) it should have worked as PS-1 wiring is standard.  G

Greg;
After I thought about it and re-read the thread, I figured what was likely wrong.

Glen;

Sorry if I came on a little strong. I just could not believe what I was reading! My apologies.

Glad you got your engine running OK; enjoy!

Rod

Rod,  

Thanks for the help.  I guess it was stupid to hook up the wrong tender to the engine but to me, I had a tender with no engine and it had the same plug and was by the same manufacture so why wouldn't it be compatible.  Apparently it wasn't the wrong tender that caused the problem but it was me trying to run the engine without a tender.  I'm 65 years old and the last train I had was a Lionel that I got while in grammar school.  It ran without a tender.   A lot has changed since then.  I'm still curious and just wondered what kind of sounds my extra tender would make.  It was silent.  This all started with a garage sale where I ended up with the 4-8-8-2, an MTH switcher of some sort, a Lionel S.P. Daylight and 18 cars.  They were all still in boxes and hadn't been run.  It seemed like a good deal so I bought them.  Later, I got some O-72 track and hooked up my big old transformer.  What was to be a toy for the grandchildren is getting out of control.  They will probably be restricted to just running the old engines with the plastic cars.

Glen, If you post some pictures I can help identify.  Some early MTH had basic reverse units with whistle or horn only.  Others (Protosounds) have full sounds.   Same 4 pin connector.  Plus, it just may not work or have had parts removed.  G

Glen;

No harm; no foul!

I am just glad that you got that nice engine running without damage.

You are so right; a lot has changed, and mostly for the better I guess.

I remember my postwar Lionels well, but I now run only the newer stuff with sound, smoke etc.

You realize of course that your "good deal" garage sale purchase may get you hopelessly hooked on trains again, right?

Anyhow, enjoy your trains!

Rod

Glen;

Yes, This hobby does get out of control.

In 2005 or so, My sister sent me an old Lionel car for Christmas thinking we all had trains.

I went bonkers, My wife gave permission to make a small loop under the Christmas tree.

Before we moved last month I was up to a 6.5 foot by 23 foot layout with more trains than I can get on the track.

Now I have more space, so the Layout will grow !!!

Have Fun, that's the answer.

PS Glad to hear no damage caused with the odd tender.

I too have an odd tender that came from the auction place with a old Lionel engine.

It is Proto Sounds 2, makes all the sounds and loads into the command system as an engine, but stands alone as spare parts for now.

I went down to the barn and wrote down the numbers off of the boxes from my garage sale purchase.  Here is what I got.  Some of it is kind of junky but most looks like pretty good rolling stock.  The tender that I plugged into the MTH 301144-1 was the MTH 30-2141-3.  It wasn't a tender at all.  It was a B unit and has a four in plug with the male end and a female end.  I don't have an A unit to go with it.

MTH

301144-1         Cab Forward Steamer plus Tender  4294

30-2319-0          RS-3 Diesel Engine Southern Pacific with loco sound 141

30-2141-3          E-5 B Unit Diesel Southern Pacific 6002B

30-1130          Union Pacific Auxiliary Tender  10

30-6109 D       O-27 Streamliner Vista Dome SP Daylight  3603

LIONEL

6-18007          SP GS-2 Daylight 4-8-4 with tender  4410

6-18115          Santa Fe Nonpowered F-3B 

6-19023          Madison Car SP Arcata Bay    9023

6-19024          Madison Car SP Half Moon Bay   9024

6-19025          Madison Car SP Drakes Bay   9025

6-19026          Madison Car SP  Sunset Bay  9026

6-19019          Madison Type Heavyweight Baggage Car   9019

6-31724          Nabisco Lines three car set  Ritz, Oreo, Wheat Thins

6-52155          Train Collectors Association City of S.F. Baggage Car 1999

          Lionel Lines Bucyrus Erie Class 250 Railroad Crane

K-Line

K4688-30001  Observation Car  SP Daylight

Williams         

          72 foot Steamliner Observation Car SP Daylight  

          60 foot Streamliner Dining Car  SP Daylight  6261

Industrial Rail

IDM 1704        Work Caboose   Santa Fe