it is scale correct speed.

It's easy to time it if you want to know if it's correct.  Properly operating PS/2 or PS/3 locomotives should be pretty close.

After I did my layout and started running the trains. I timed how long it took to go around my living room. I was astonished to find out at 30 miles an hour it took exactly 2 minutes to go around my living room. So I went to 60 miles an hour it took one minute to complete the revolution. I tried it 90, 45 seconds I just had to find out a corner at a time I held boost button to 120. So after some testing to make sure the train wouldn't jump track at 120 in the corners I held the button down all the way till it said 120. When it 120 I hit the timer 15 seconds it took to go around. I must add that I did not attempt to make the living room pass to scale a perfect mile. If it isn't a perfect scale mile it's within inches of being perfect.

HUH?  He's asking how it works, not trying to steal the idea!

figure out a scale mile (or two) on your track, get your stopwatch, time it and do the math . And actually there is a scale MPH app available for iPhone or iPad that does this

I made a chart if you want to check what your scale speed is.  First mark 11 feet of track on your layout and then time how long the train takes to travel the 11 feet.

Dennis

I am just surprised that its accurate at higher speeds and that My living room and kitchen just worked out to be a scaled mile by accident.

http://bouldercreekengineering.com/

HotShot Speedometer displays the scale speed of passing trains 

The Only way to run...... plus other

Wow.  That Hotshot stuff is cool.

.....

Dennis

Good morning

Lionel used to make one,once you get it set, it works good.

Clem k

What if someone doesn't have 11 feet of straight track?

<rain on parade>

Number of inches traveled in 2.5 seconds equals scale MPH in O scale

</rain on parade>

---PCJ (5 seconds for HO, 7.5 for N)

he never said in his post you needed straight track-curve would work too. if you dont have 11ft of sraight track , you should be using a smaller gauge.imo-jim

Not sure if my calculations are correct. So I pose Another question. How many inches of track would signify one 10th of a mile at 1:48 scale?

(5,280/10)/48*12=132

Designs as a whole don't have to necessarily be novel to be patentable.  It can also depend on how a prior technology is applied in the overall design in certain cases that can be considered "unique" and therefore, patentable.

Guglielmo Marconi is widely considered to be the "inventor of radio" when in truth he wasn't;  Hans Christian Ørsted experimented with  radio signals in 1820, James Clerk Maxwell developed his well-known theroies in electromagnetism in the 1860s (both Hans & James' discoveries & experimentations before Marconi was even born) and David Edward Hughes is believed to be the first to have intentionally send the first radio transmission in 1880 (Marconi was only about six years old at this time).  So radio as a technology was not newly discovered as a technology when Marconi came into the picture.

So Marconi's long-distance telegraph system which he is most famous for, was not novel (or patentable) due to using radio technology; it was the method of of how radio technology was used that was patentable.

So it can be argued in MTH's case that while back-EMF and equivalent technology for motor control is not new any more so than two-way wired or wireless communication is; it's the method of how these technologies are applied that requires scrutiny when reviewing a filing for a patent.   For example, if these technologies have not been designed for use in controlling toy trains previously (or if it has been but no patent has been filed or prior art recognized in that particular application), then they could be patentable.  In other words, it's not just the parts; it's the whole.

Railride, Mixerman is correct.  The 11 feet don't have to be straight.  Regarding your formula, I think mine is more practical, i.e. easier to stop watch a train moving 11 feet than a matter of inches in seconds.

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Dennis

You can use the chart to check the accuracy of the remote reading.  Conventional operators could use it too.

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Dennis

The chronometer on the remote I will check also.

It'll be interesting to see how close the chronometer on the remote is to the actual distance traveled.  The chronometer measures the actual wheel rotation, so the difference will be due to wheel slip, typically in curves.

I posted "my" formula (which I got out of a very old book on model railroading--it devotes a chapter to ASTRAC, of all things) as an alternative way of casually spot-checking train speeds at pretty much any point on a layout, without waiting for it to pass through a designated "speed trap" or requiring the use of a DCS-equipped locmotive.

I've never needed a stopwatch, having learned to count seconds ("oh-one, oh-two, oh") with enough precision to make off-the-cuff estimates by counting out five half-seconds from the point the train passes any landmark, and eyeballing the distance traveled. As long as you're not trying to run at TGV speeds, it works pretty well.

---PCJ 

If you would like to make your own chart:

Formula for "O" Gauge Scale Miles per Hour

SMPH = 11 ÷ seconds to travel 11 ft. X 32.7272

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Dennis

I never said it was.  I specifically stated: "While back-EMF and equivalent  (emphasis mine) technology for motor control is not new..."

John,

Truce. I'm done with this thread. You are entitled to assume that I do not know what I'm talking about. FWIW, this is the type of control engineering I do for a living. 

Gilly

Gilly, no truce required; I never presumed or intended to assume you didn't know what you were talking about.  I was just simplifying the dialogue by just using back-EMF as a general point of reference when it comes to motor control speed & regulation, and attempting to clarify that from your prior reply, so it wasn't intended to be an attack on you.  If it came across that way I aplogize.  BTW I've spent part of my IT career in the manufacturing industry, including aerospace where these types of technologies are used.

Having said all that, as someone who has witnessed lawsuits being filed regarding patent violations and intellectual property theft and have studied prior court documents on other higher-profile cases involving such, I stand by my earlier post about technologies that involve combining other "prior art" or what would be otherwise unpatentable technologies into specific applications or methods can warrant being patentable, hence my analogy to Marconi previously.

I ask this not stir anything but because I use the cab2 and I would love for it to report scale mph to me

If Lionel were to use a different method of measurement than MTH, could they report their locomotives' speed in scale mph on the legacy cab2?

thank you

"If Lionel were to use a different method of measurement than MTH, could they report their locomotives' speed in scale mph on the legacy cab2?"

In theory, yes.  In practice, no, because it likely would lead to litigation which would be expensive, distracting and a non-productive use of resources for a small company like Lionel.  You pick and choose your battles, and I don't think this is one of the ones worth engaging.

Any patent litigation runs into money, I'm living the dream right now.

If you want to run with the big dogs, you’ve got to learn to pee in the tall grass.

I didn't mean to turn on a bug zapper either..-))