MTH HO Scale Equipment

Hi Bob,

 

I have a pretty good sampling of the MTH HO stuff.  By and large their products have been on the higher end of the HO price range, but the detail, features, and quality have lived up to the price point.  Here's a quick take of the items I own.

 

I bought their K4 Pacific when they first came out in 2006.  With the traction tires it's a great puller, but you need to put the traction tire axle in the front position (not the rear as the manual shows) or it will derail on switches.  Without the traction tires they are only mediocre pullers.  I had one of three K4's develop a short in the smoke unit, which was repaired under warrantee and has been fine since.  The K4's had a unique drawbar design that worked OK, but was relatively difficult to couple and un-coupler.  MTH has released a retrofit kit for the K4's that uses their new drawbar design.  The new design, which uses only 2 wires, is widely regarded as the best design in HO.  Personally, I wish they could get the O gauge PS3 down to only 2 conductors so they could use the same design in O scale.

 

The Erie Triplex was a real home run.  They pull great with 2 motors and 16 wheel drive with or without the traction tires.  Detail and decoration was very good.  This was the first MTH engine in any scale released with the playable whistle.  All subsequent HO steam has had a playable whistle when run in DCS.

 

The SP GS-4 Daylight.  Very good puller, very heavy, beautiful decoration.  There are a number of HO GS-4's available and some have better detail for the same or less money.  However, none of the others pull as well or have matching passenger cars.  BLI did a good job with their GS-4 and catalogued a full consist of passenger cars about 6 years ago.  To date they have only delivered the observation car.  MTH has delivered the full train.  More on the passenger cars later.

 

Most folks in HO weren't attracted by the early HO steam offerings.  For the most part, you could get the same prototypes from other manufacturers.  The HO steam engines don't support a couple common DCC features, which limited their appeal among the DCC faithful.  Ironically, one the best features of all PS2 and PS3 engines, the consistent out-of-the-box speed control, is actually considered a problem by some DCC guys.  MTH has since added support for these DCC features and the DCC faithful seem pretty satisfied.

 

The SD70ACe and SD70M were MTH's first diesels, and the first MTH model that many HO guys purchased.  MTH beat Athearn to market with the ACe by about a year, beat Athearn's price by $20, and the early production Athearns had some real problems.  The combination of a top notch model and Athearn's troubles and delays got a lot of folks to bite their tongues and buy their first MTH HO engine.  The SD70's, like all subsequent MTH HO diesels, have not come without traction tires.  They rely on a huge amount of dead weight for tractive effort.  The sound and speed control were typically excellent.  The SD70's also introduced the HO Protocoupler.  Here's a video I did with my first SD70ACe showing the slow speed control and coupling at just 1 smph to a cut of three free rolling cars.

 

 

The HO Protocouplers did not get a good reputation right off the bat.  Many people complained that they didn't couple without smashing them hard.  I did a lot of testing with the couplers and found that they coupled very well IF you use McHenry or Kadee #58 scale couplers.  If you have #5 Kadee's you do have to couple at higher speeds.  There's also one spring that can be softened that improves slow speed operation.

 

The next engines I purchased were the PA's and PB's in SP Daylight.  These are the most full featured HO diesels to date from any manufacturer.  All units have complete PS3 systems with lights (A units only), sound, Protocouplers, and smoke.  So far, they are the only HO diesels to come with smoke units.  I purchased a set that came with a PA, PB, and five daylight passenger cars.

 

The Daylight cars were another product that got MTH onto a lot of HO layouts for the first time.  The cars are VERY highly detailed and accurate to the prototype.  They even modeled the three unit articulated dining section.  Walthers offers a similar level on detail on their passenger cars for about the same price.  However, the MTH cars come fully assembled with LED interior lighting.  The comparable Walthers cars come with the grab irons and other details in a bag for you to apply and LED lighting kits must be purchased for $12 each and installed by the customer.  With all the unique cars numbers MTH has produced it is possible to run a 21 car Daylight train.  An A-B-A set of PA's and PB's has more than enough power to pull them on a grade.  The cars are able to operate on 22 inch radius curves with some extra gap between the cars.  There's also a close coupling option that pulls the functional full width diaphragms together, but it requires 40 inch radius curves.  I haven't yet had the chance to run my cars this way, but I'm building a layout for a client right now that will make it possible.

 

I also have examples of the Milwaukee Bi-Polar and Little Joe.  Again, they were top notch models with incredible features.  Both have die-cast bodies, Protocouplers, LED lighting, operating pantographs (O scale Bi-polar doesn't), and dual motors.  The diecast bodies make them very heavy and good pullers without traction tires.

 

The other MTH HO product I've purchased is a couple of the F3 starter sets.  I actually bought these to scavenge the electronics for a custom mining engine in On30.  I didn't have any plans for the rest of the set, so I din't much care what happened to them.  I decided to set up one of the engines with the cars and track from both sets at our annual Christmas party and let the little one do their worst.  We had four children between 2 and 7 years old.  We didn't tell them it was OK to be rough, be we didn't stop them either.  At one point the 2 year old was bashing the caboose on the floor.  Much to my surprise, while the ladder and brake wheel details were gone, everything still ran just fine.  We're going into the third year with this arrangement.  The kids are getting little older and less abusive but I'm still amazed that the F3 keeps going.  The MTH HO starter sets are TOUGH!

Sure hope we don't lose Dave to the smaller trains....

 

Actually I first saw a Triplex on a neighboring club layout a couple of years ago. It was really impressive!

As someone who dabbles in HO, MTH is at the higher end, quality wise, and they are at the top when it comes to features. I don't think you'll be dissappointed.

Don't worry about that Sam.  I've been a multi-scaler for quite a while.  Each has its own appeal.  In addition to HO and O, I also have Standard Gauge.

 

One thing I've learned from posting on this and other forums over the last ten years is that there aren't a lot of folks who own and operate both O and HO at the same time.  Usually people seem to collect one for a period of time and then switch to the other.  It's rather fun being involved in both because it lets me translate the "tech speak" between DCC, DCS, and TMCC/Legacy.  It's not quite like speaking a foreign language, but it is rather like speaking different dialects.  Brits use a torch when checking the lube level under the bonnet on their lorry at night.  An American uses a flashlight when checking the oil level under the hood of their truck at night.   A DCC guy uses his cab to send commands to the command station that control accessory decoders.  In DCS we use the remote to send commands to the TIU that control an AIU port.

Gents:

 

Thank you for the feedback. Dave, thanks in particular for the time you took to reply in such detail. In conversations with some of my HO acquaintenances, I was made aware of some of the shortcomings you mentioned with the steam locomotives. The electrics are spectacular and represent a big opportunity for MTH. I know New Haven fans who are ready waiting with cash in hand for some New Haven motors. The majority of well made HO North American traction (with exceptions such as the Rivarossi GG1, Atlas AEM7 and a few others) currently on the market are constructed of brass and I believe HO could benefit from additional electric prototype models of a more mass produced nature. The demand for the MTH Joe and Bipolar seem to bear that out.

 

Since you mentioned the starter sets, the F unit which he ran for me was from a starter set. After examining the equipment, I think the term "starter set" probably is an injustice to it. I was very impressed and I think it may be a better value than MTH's O gauge starter sets.

 

Thanks again,

 

Bob  

 

  

I've been admiring the MTH HO F's at my LHS.  I'm hoping that's the MTH that shows up when they start producing the former SHS S Scale line.

 

Rusty

Hi guys,

 

Bob, I agree the HO starter sets are an exceptional value.  I usually advise people shopping for a child they want to get interested in electric trains to go with the O gauge SD70ACe sets or the HO Santa Fe set.  I give the nod to O gauge because it's easier for small hands to get on the tracks and the SD70 sets with double stacks are something kids will see in the real world.  If the O gauge set isn't in the budget the HO set is a great substitute.

 

No offense to the other O and HO starter sets on the market, but I give a HUGE advantage to any set that includes command control.  In my experience you have a much better chance of getting kids excited and holding their interest with command control.  The only other CC sets in the HO market are from Bachmann.  They give you a more complete CC system than the DCS Remote Commander, but the engine and rolling stock are not as nice as the MTH set equipment and they cost more than an O gauge SD70 set.

 

The starter set F3's and separate sale F7's are made using modified tooling obtained from BLI.  The tooling was acquired by MTH as part of the settlement with Korea Brass over stolen O gauge designs.  MTH also received the BLI tools for the PA/PB, FA/FB, and GG1.  Each was a pretty good scale model to start.  Folks I've talked to at MTH were pleasantly surprised with the flexibility of the tooling to change details for a specific prototype.  The starter set F3's lack some of the finer add-on parts like grab irons and lift rings, but what is there is accurate.  The separate sale F7's have all the add-on detail and etched stainless grills.  I think it's safe to say the S-Helper fans can expect the MTH released to have at least the same level of detail as previous releases off the same tooling.  Most of MTH's changes will likely focus on what's necessary to add PS3 electronics and sound.  At York it was explained the S scale F units will be the first releases next year because they can fit the current O gauge PS3 boards.  MTH has started work on a smaller PS3 board with more current capacity than the HO boards for narrow hood S scale and small prototype O scale.

There was a HO vendor at the Edison Greenberg show who deals in used premium HO equipment .... He had a brand new complete M&M set ( still wrapped ) for 135.00... It was times like these I wish I knew how to paint !

Dave Hikel,

 

Are you using the DCS Remote Control System (50-1001) to operate your MTH HO system? If so, what power supply are you using with the DCS Remote Control System?

 

Thanks

kysouthern

 

 

 

Hi kysouthern,

 

I use the DCS system when running my HO trains at home and usually DCC elsewhere.  When running on DCS I have used several transformers with success, including an MTH Z-DC 1, an MRC Tech2, an MRC Tech4, and a Z-4000 rectified to DC with a bridge rectifier.  If you want something inexpensive to get your feet wet in HO the Z-DC 1 is a good option.  Unfortunately, there aren't many mid-level DC transformers in the 25 to 75 watt range.  MTH has cataloged a 30 watt DC transformer but it has yet to arrive in stores.  Most of the other mid level transformers put out pretty dirty power, which DCS does not like.  You can have a very difficult time getting an engine to add to the DCS remote if the DC current isn't clean.  It's real over kill for HO, but the best DC transformers available are from Bridgewerks.

Dave,

 

Thanks for the information. You should be on MTH's payroll.

 

kysouthern

 

Dave,

 

What turnouts and switch motors are you using on your HO layout?  Are you using an AIU to control them?

 

Thanks

kysouthern

Hi kysouthern,

 

We usually use Tortoise motors unless the client REALLY wants something else.  We use either Atlas #6924 non-derailing boards or DCC Specialties Wabbit stationary decoders to drive the Tortoise motors.  You can also drive the Tortoise directly from an AIU using a pair of rectifier diodes and AC power.  The only pitfall is you have to wire the switches to the accessory terminals and use the Accessory menu on the DCS remote.