MTH Hybrid Samples Arrive!

Like to see a side by side comparison with the Lionel Legacy Hybrid. More than just one is plastic and one is metal .

The vision line Hybrid has some great sounds and a smoke system that is prototypical and not just pumping large amounts out at all time

Assuming this is a PS3 engine, it will be interesting to see if they can match the sounds and operations of the Legacy electronics.

considering the $400 list price difference I think that the MTH will be a winner no matter what. Also for that same price you actually get the Laboratory car!

You can paint a Yugo to look like a Cadillac, but it's still a Yugo

Am looking forward the test car though, and to see want they can get out of the PS3 system

Yes lets compair a plastic train to a diecast one with detailed interior with legacy sound... A chevy vs a cadillac no offence

Having 3 dash 8 PS3 locomotives I can attest that the sounds are very very close to the legacy sounds. They do sound incredible. But I would not expect the MTH version to have all the opening hatches etc. that open and the detailed cab but for the price I'll take it. I have had this on order since 2009 so I can't wait to see it in person.

I've been waiting for this engine too. I'll be happy when it gets here, if it makes it by May.

I suppose one has to be as happy as he can with the chevy when on a chevy budget...

I have often wondered what the purpose is for the cab doors that open. Do your little people go in and out to justify the extra expense.

Is the horn on backwards, or does only one chime face forward on the real one?

My little crewmen walk out of the cab doors to take a pee break when the engine stops on the siding

Hope they don't target the third rail!!!

Rusty

MTH features will have PS3, led lighting, prototypical charging lights, rule 17 lighting, dual motors, smoke unit, proto couplers.

Plastic or die cast doesn't really make it quality. Performance and reliability does.

In addition the new PS3 sounds are just superb, and with the expanded Pram on boards there is tons of conversation in them now, more then any other units on the market.

This engine also will have the matching Lab car as a set. Priced at MSRP of 499.99 which most likely will be in the area of 450.00, really looking forward to grabbing this one.

I also own two of the Lionel Visionline versions of this unit, in which now one will be for sale. I'm sure like always MTH's product won't disappoint.

Chevy, Cadillac, Yugo etc..... what would you rather have in this economy?

The best gas mileage and reliability you can get! Sometimes those Toyota Prius's do beat out those Hummers.

I wont be trying to use my MTH one as paperweight so I don't need the Lionel heavyweight version. As to quality and performance again you cannot compare a toy to an auto. I expect my MTH to run just fine!

On the early GEVO's the AirChime K5HL horn is set up with a single bell facing forward (there is even a notch cut into the bracket that only allows the horn to be bolted onto the locomotive in this fashion, a spotting feature for horn collectors)

Recent GE production comes with a K5 on a low bracket (similar to the popular K5LA)

Sounds on my P3 Dash8 are exceptional.. and it was working and in one piece out of the box  

I can't wait for the Lab car but the Lab car they are offering is not prototypical.  Even the decals are on wrong ends.  I talked to MTH about it and they said it is just for representation.  It wont even be detailed like the real Lab car.  I believe it is just an RPO passenger car they will paint to be similar to the GE Lab car.  It will be a great foundation to add more details too.

I'm anxious to get mine too but I don't expect it to be anywhere as good on the operating features front as the Lionel Vision model even if it is PS3. The smoke, sound and fan technology on the Vision 2010 is superb quite apart from the chasing lights; mine has never had a malfunction (touch wood) although it did suffer from the "rusty wheels" syndrome on arrival. Otherwise this model did Lionel proud and I regard it as a classic. If I could find another one I'd probably grab it!

I expect the new MTH hybrid to rival the Lionel version in looks, sounds and operation. I don't need opening hatches, doors, spinning fans I can't see. Don't get me wrong the Lionel version is most likely the best diesel ever made but MTH's version will also be right up there. I have 3 PS3 engines and the sound and operation are top notch, I actually like the horn on the PS3 models better then I do on my legacy units. Both will have fans and it's not right or wrong on the model you choose. I chose the MTH unit because of several reasons, 1. I think die cast body's are useless on diesels. 2.cost, I will not pay $800+ for a diesel. 3.consistent quality for the most part. 

I'm going to go on a limb and say I expect the sound will not rival Lionel's.  I have only one PS3 loco - the 241.A from the European series, and sound is the only thing on it that seems to be unimproved compared to PS2.  My 241.A is the most detailed die-cast loco I have ever seen - better than any JLC in tiny details and attached parts and paint -- it rivals some brass its so good -- and it runs very smoothly with great cruise control, etc. It does have a good European whistle sound - loud and shrill sharp.  But the bell is wanemic and the chuffing, etc. is just not the quality I expected.  Running back to back with the recent Legacy Northern 3759 or Mallet, it just sounds hollow and unimpressive - much more toylike. 

Of course, the 241.A is steam and MTH has been focusing on diesels here, so maybe the Hybrid will be better - one can hope.

""I expect the new MTH hybrid to rival the Lionel version in looks, sounds and operation.""

Like Lionel, lets hope MTH has closed that awful gap between shell, frame and power trucks..

Joe 

I'm not a rivet counter but someone mentioned a side-by-side comparison of the Lionel and MTH versions of this engine and after (a) spending inordinate time admiring MTH's sample photos and (b) looking again at Lionel's fine version of this engine I noticed a couple of things, particularly because the paint scheme on the Lionel Vision Hybrid is so well executed, IMHO.

Below is a set of three photos; the top shows GE 2010 in a yard in Illinois in 2008, middle is my Vision version on a siding on the carpet layout and bottom is one of MTH's Facebook close-ups. All are shots of the left side and you will notice the railings on the original and the Vision, in particular the double railings up top and how the lower ones are painted to match the logo in the background.

MTH's sample doesn't duplicate this either in the number of railings, how the angled railing is configured or the paint scheme.  It's also got ladder rungs where the original hasn't but more important maybe the roof leading from the cab seems too high compared with the original.

I imagine these are all production shortcuts to keep the price point where it is. So be it - I'm very keen to see and hear mine in the flesh!

Hancock52, One question, from your posted pixs I do not see the formed diamond shaped side panels on your Lionel Vision that I see on prototype and MTH.  Are they there and hidden by lighting?

Ron

Yes, they are there but not in very high relief. In that respect the MTH model looks rather closer to the prototype but it's just as likely to be a trick of the light because the finish on the Lionel model is not glossy. On those panels you will also note that the logo "A product of ecomagination" is centered on the Lionel model whereas it's offset to the right on the prototype and the MTH. I don't think that's such a big deal. 

Just noticed something else on the MTH one they used black ink where Lionel used a darker color green which looks a little more realistic for the "A product of ecomagination" logo line.

The MTH model looks very good.  Will it have the rotating charge lights like the Lionel model?

According to the Facebook page it will have the chasing lights and is Proto 3.  No mention of any special smoke or "sleep" technology, which is not surprising at the price.

I'm not a rivet counter but someone mentioned a side-by-side comparison of the Lionel and MTH versions of this engine and after (a) spending inordinate time admiring MTH's sample photos and (b) looking again at Lionel's fine version of this engine I noticed a couple of things, particularly because the paint scheme on the Lionel Vision Hybrid is so well executed, IMHO.

Below is a set of three photos; the top shows GE 2010 in a yard in Illinois in 2008, middle is my Vision version on a siding on the carpet layout and bottom is one of MTH's Facebook close-ups. All are shots of the left side and you will notice the railings on the original and the Vision, in particular the double railings up top and how the lower ones are painted to match the logo in the background.

MTH's sample doesn't duplicate this either in the number of railings, how the angled railing is configured or the paint scheme.  It's also got ladder rungs where the original hasn't but more important maybe the roof leading from the cab seems too high compared with the original.

I imagine these are all production shortcuts to keep the price point where it is. So be it - I'm very keen to see and hear mine in the flesh!

No one's ever a rivet counter, it seems. But I agree that if one is going to compare models, the baseline ought to be how they compare to the real thing.

And while MTH and Lionel deserve credit for striving for greater accuracy, the kinds of variations you point out are pretty typical in mass-produced O gauge and scale models. Small production quantities limit the extent of tooling variations that are feasible. At the same time the difficulty in modeling contemporary locomotives lies in the various detail changes across the model's production life, not to mention road-specific detail variations. The same kind of comparison made here would be less flattering to Lionel if you put, for example, its BNSF or UP ES44 models up against photos of the real thing. (For completeness's sake perhaps do the same with the MTH models, which are more realistic models than the Lionel for those roads). I'm all for making such comparisons and pointing out the errors in the hopes better models result in the future. The point is that they are so common generalizations about whose model is better can get tricky. Sometimes it depends on roadname and in some cases even roadnumber.

There seems to be much excitement about the NS heritage locomotives, but assuming NS is painting newly delivered locomotives, you will see similar errors on the Lionel and MTH models of those. For example, I don't know if there are formal "phases" of ES44 production, but the current ES44 production models are visibly different in several ways from the earlier models that Lionel and MTH have depicted. Changes have been made over the years to the radiators, vents and even door locations of the real thing. The errors in both the Lionel and MTH heritage models in my view are going to be much more serious than the errors mentioned above.

RM

There have been so many varants of GE LOCOMOTIVES since 1990 that both Lionel and MTH have not been able to find a cost effective way to include the changes while still manufacturing them in traditional methods.

In order to make them 100% accurate they will have to go to CAD/CAM and 3D printing for each GE diesel model.

Andrew

Falcon Service

MTH doesn't really need to add the ladder rungs on the side of the hood. I wonder why they are adding parts that are not there when the real one doesn't have them.

Rich from the look of it Lionel may actually have a more accurate model of the prototype for both the Hybrid and the ES when it comes to the most important part the body.  Correcting the body on the MTH model maybe much harder than correcting railing detail.  The dip from the hump is much, much too pronounced on the MTH unit.

If or when I crave historical accuracy I get brass from Scott Mann but the sort of discrepancies evident in the MTH production sample - even the roof line - do not deter me from adding it to my fleet. I don't mind the stray ladder rungs (and in fact I hope that they don't take them off and leave badly filled holes under the paint scheme).

As you might have guessed, this is an instance of having the Lionel model being the reason for getting the MTH version; if they are markedly different, so much the better.

I'll mention my prejudice, which is that I think that the Lionel version is one of the finest O gauge diesels ever made, if not the best. My enthusiasm for it comes largely from the fact that IT WORKS exactly as described in the manual; no issues over the smoke\light\sound right out of the box and all the features add to the operating fun. I'll see what PS3 has to offer in the MTH version but I won't complain if it doesn't live up to the Vision "sleeptime" effects.

Of course, if I could find the Lionel CP version of this engine, which is probably as un-authentic as they come, I might regret supporting my LHS by ordering the MTH . . .