Mth premire scale wheel engines with fix pilots question.

Fixed pilot engines are not going to do anything less than 072. Some of the longer ones need even more than that. 

A big 6 axle scale wheel diesel with fixed pilots and Kadee couplers will be in the neighborhood of a 36" radius (or O-72 in 3R vocabulary). An Atlas F unit will negotiate 27" radius for instance. It all depends on the model.

Then why does the specs for the mth scale wheeled sd70 ace on the mth item specs say min 042 curves. Is this another mth catalog typo?

My bad, I read it wrong it states 42" radius curves. I have been in oguage two long. Hahah. You guys are right. Sorry.

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

My bad, I read it wrong it states 42" radius curves. I have been in oguage two long. Hahah. You guys are right. Sorry.

There is a more advanced answer to your question...

Since you are running 3R you can use the MTH Hi-Rail wheel sets. These have larger flanges and "blind" center axles. This will allow the engine to physically negotiate the stated 3 rail curve of O-42 or 21" radius. Now, the problem you will have is with the fixed pilots and Kadee couplers. With long shank couplers you may be able to stay coupled to the train on curves tighter than 36" radius, but probably not much. Also, these big engines look horrible on tight curves.

Have fun.

Thanks johnnyspeed. That what I was afraid of was the fixed pilots. Now going to all newer model scale diesels such as es44 and ac6000's and using kaydees has made me wish I had not gone the 036 route. At the time though the fastrack was cheaper at least for the manual switches and I was just starting my first o guage layout. This was over 10 years ago and I also was not thinking of using kaydees at all in oscale. This layout is going to be incorporated into my larger layout in the future. It will be a branch line and restricted to small four axel engines. For now though it is my main running layout and I am in the process of trying to truck mount all my rolling stock except for unit trains to all kaydees. All my engines with movable pilots work when mounting kaydees on them. Its not 100% reiliable when using the uncoupling magnets its about 90 to 95 percent,but using the scewer method works great 100% of the time. This is alot better than the lobster claws and slamming cars together method especialy when switching cars. I never dreamed that it would even work truck mounting the kaydees, but after experimenting with them and trying all types of scenarios it does work at least for me and my layout needs. 

I was about to get two very nice engines here on the forum for a realy great deal,but because of my radius and the engines having fixed pilots I had to pass on them. It kinda bummed me out because the price was so good,but oh well thats life. 

They'll to through O-72 flat-top rail like Gargraves, Ross, Atlas and MTH with cars coupled (50-foot or less). They'll do this will scale wheels if your track is flat and even. The four-axle engines are more tolerant of uneven track up to a point. All of the ones I have have run on the club's layout but due to thermal expansion/contraction distorting some track areas, I'm getting derailments with my six-axle engines in some areas (we're planning to re-do these sections as the track's getting old). The six-axle engines I have are C40-8/C40-8w, C44-9W, SD70ACe, ES44AC. All have scale wheels in place.

Aghrmatt, I recently this early spring wanted to try truck mounting the kaydees to some rolling stock and a couple of engines just to see if it was doable. I tryed various lenths and manufacturers cars. I have right now all 036 fastrack and manual switches.

I discovered to my suprize that it does work albeit not as prototipical as body mounting them,but it does work. I started a thread documenting my progress,but decided to stop for awhile and get more kaydees and maybe do a video on my youtube channel about doing this for anyone who wished to have kaydees,but can only have small radius curves and switches on there layouts.

I remebered back in my nscale days that microtrains truck mounted kaydee couplers was all I used and they worked great. Now beacuse of the large flange wheel sets on oguage rolling stock and the weight of the trucks. This method of truck mounting the kaydees works exstremly well. It takes some ingenuity to fabricate a mounting pad for the kaydees,but I have yet to find a truck syle that I cant mount a kaydee too. Some are a lot easyer than others.

If my engines have swinging pilots,with the pilot mounted kaydee and the swing of the truck the engine and cars track great even through back to back 036 switches. It lookes goofy yes and not very realistic, but it works and like I said it works well. This for me at least for now lets me enjoy all the benafites of kaydees and keep my small 12'×6' layout.

Some day when I get a deticated train room and bigger space then I will expaned my layout. You guys are right though about the fixed pilots. Mth scale engines can convert back to high rail wheels ,but for me at least now the fixed pilots just wont work. I recently got a lionel legacy es44 with there kinamatic pilot. I was afraid this engine would not go lower than there stated 054 and I was right. So for now it awaits my layout exspantion. It is one beautifull engine though and I am glad I got it.

I have been collecting more stuff for the layout exspantion here lately,but this summer I need to make some videos on my kaydee truck mount conversions and explain to small radius operators that if they wish to have kaydees it can be done. I have rekindled my love for kaydees and will only probably use lobster claws on my unit trains. Maybee a transition on the lead car thats all. Well see what happens when I get that far. 

If you have such tight curves and want truck mounted couplers, why did you buy the scale wheel version to begin with? Scale wheels and fixed pilots are just not compatible with toy train curves  

I swapped all my scale wheels out to the Hi-rail wheel sets. I used the standard medium shank coupler and opened up the sides of the draft gear box to allow for maximum side to side movement. Whats the point of putting on an extended shaft coupler that sticks out three times too far? Even with 072 it pushes the limits when you run a multiple unit consist through a crossover.

Fixed pilots and Kadee couplers definitely take some extra work for reliable operation, even on 072 curves. Run 4 axle engines with shorter cars and there is less work for reliable operation on 072 curves, and those will even run smaller curves. 036 curves, no, not reliably they wont.

Laidoffsick posted:

If you have such tight curves and want truck mounted couplers, why did you buy the scale wheel version to begin with? Scale wheels and fixed pilots are just not compatible with toy train curves  

I swapped all my scale wheels out to the Hi-rail wheel sets. I used the standard medium shank coupler and opened up the sides of the draft gear box to allow for maximum side to side movement. Whats the point of putting on an extended shaft coupler that sticks out three times too far? Even with 072 it pushes the limits when you run a multiple unit consist through a crossover.

Fixed pilots and Kadee couplers definitely take some extra work for reliable operation, even on 072 curves. Run 4 axle engines with shorter cars and there is less work for reliable operation on 072 curves, and those will even run smaller curves. 036 curves, no, not reliably they wont.

Like he said.

Laid off sick, I just saw you response and I saw two mth scale ps2 3volt bnsf engines for sale at such a good deal it was hard to say know. I posted this question here to get feedback from guys like you before I took the plunge. Needless to say I really wanted these and the price was so so good,but I had to pass these up due to the fixed pilots. I knew they most likely would not work for me, but the price made me almost try to make them do what they could not do in reality do it in my mind.so again wisdom prevailed and I turned to you guys. When mth sells the same engines with non fixed pilots and ps3 why get two shelf queens even if the price was right. Even my new lionel bnsf es44 looks amazing with the kinamatic pilot but sadly it awaits my layout exspantion. This engine however is going no ware. I will never sell it even if means for now a loop of 072 or 054 on the carpet. I have some solid rail realtracks and switches back when I first got back into o guage. Its all 054 or larger. I was saving it for a christmas or a display layout to take to shows. I got it out one christmas and set up a nice display. Got a cat though and have not done that since. I am toying with the idea of building a new layout altogether using atlas track. This way I can run the scale stuff with the kaydees. I am only planning and ploting right now though as I may be moving next year. Thats another story altogether though. 

Once you go with Kadees you'll soon be doing your entire fleet as it looks so nice. In addition, same thing on scale wheel engines with fixed pilots. There is no turning back....

i would seriously consider redoing your layout for wider radius curves. Good luck.