MTH Questions

They run nicely on 2-rail. The come with scale wheels (all drivers flanged). The conversion to 3-rail is done with a switch on the tender and installation of pickup rollers.

 

They're subject to the same radius restrictions as any standard 2-rail steam locomotive. The Hudsons, light Mikados, small switchers (and oddly enough, the Big Boy) can negotiate 36" radius. Everything else requires broader curves. I think the Big Boy's sharp-curve capabilities relate to the superstructure's design to support a 3-rail chassis and is an exception to the normal rules regarding big steam.

 

I have the Blue Goose Hudson and it runs nicely on 2-rail and 3-rail (flat-top) track.

Thank you Matt for taking the time to offer some input.  You're right, your MTH engine in the video runs nice.  I love the reverb effect on the whistle, too. Adds nice "fullness" to the whistle. 

Sounds like I've got it wrong: One orders/purchases said engine one way or the other, right?  Apparently, the scale wheel version is pretty much like a typical 2 rail scale engine: Requires larger radii.

 

What I was hoping for was the ability to have 3-rail flexibility (tighter curves) with 2 rail looks (no center rail).  Blind drivers and Kadees mounted with generous swing would be all it would take, but apparently the scale versions don't come with blind drivers?

 

Drat. I was kicking around the idea of a steam-era urban switching layout without having to greatly enlarge the required radius.  (Something like 0-54 being the tightest radius.) 

 

What got me ol' demented mind a churnin' was a thread in the 3 rail forum in which I was very impressed with the looks of some of the switchers therein. Happened to remember that MTH offered what I thought were some engines with scale wheel conversions included in the box.

 

Thanks again!

 

Andre

 I got a MTH 2 rail Pacific and it runs as smooth as silk. It backs out of my engine shed and crosses my switches fine. Every once in a while my converted Allegheny stalls or sputters and the Pacific doesn't.

 I would like to try one of their new switchers to see how it runs on my layout.

Unfortunately the scale-wheeled locomotives are literally 2-rail locomotives with 3-rail capability while the hi-rail-wheeled locomotives are 3-rail locomotives with 2-rail capability.

 

The hi-rail diesels can negotiate 21" radius (O-42) but have swinging pilots and "lobster claws" while the scale-wheeled diesels require at least 36" radius (O-72) or larger with 40-42" radius and above being better. The diesels have removable wheelsets so you can change from hi-rail to scale or vice-versa. The hi-rail wheels, while having smaller flanges than the old days, will still have problems with turnouts due to the position/size of the flanges.

 

Best advice if you run in both worlds (like I do) is get the scale-wheeled engines, but choose carefully because of radius restrictions.

Joe:

 

What size curves are you running in O scale? Curious if that Pacific can handle 36" radius as well.

 

Also, who makes the ATSF U-Boat? Can't tell from the photo whether it's an Atlas U23 or MTH U25. I'm kicking myself because I only bought two -- should have bought the third as well.

"Real" 2 rail locomotives, those built by the traditional 2-rail builders are actually more flexibile on the curves than the ones built by the 3-rail builders.  

 

The reason is that the brass locos, (most are brass), are built with articulated side rods (the large rods connecting all drivers).   these rods have a joint at each driver like the prototype that allows the axle to move up or down or sideways a little.   When going around curves, this allows the axles at the ends to move both in the same direction to adjust for curvature.   On 3 rail locos such as MTH and some others, this side rod is one solid piece.    with blind center drivers this makes no difference.   but when they put flanges on all drivers it does not allow the proper adjustment.   With the solid siderods, if the drivers at the front slide slightly to one side, it forces the drivers at the rear to slide in the other direction rather than both sets moving to adjust to the curve.

 

If you want some some small steamers in 2 rail, one possibility might be the Atlas USRA 0-6-0.   I am not familiar with this but their diesels are nice. 

 

In brass, there have been numerous 0-4-0s, 0-6-0s, 0-8-0s and 2-8-0s.   I do not recommend the Weavaer 2-8-0 or 0-8-0, they are built like the MTH stuff.  

 

US Hobbies did a PRR C1 0-8-0 with the center axles blind.    They also did a gorgeos little B&O C16 both tank and tender version.    Weaver did a PRR 0-4-0 in brass.    Sunset did a nice USRA 0-6-0 in brass.    There are many others that might handle such curves also.

 Matt, my track is all flex. If my memory is right, there are some spots that are tight radius and the pacific handles them fine. Most curves are 48"R or larger I think?? Some yard curves ended up much smaller, guessing are 36".

 That U boat is a MTH version. It actually stalls at very slow speeds (3-5MPH) in certain switches? All my Atlas switches have unpowered frogs. That's going to force me to power things up!! I love it's sounds and it's looks.

 However, I could part with her!!!

Andre, I have an MTH K4 pacific which would not do 36"r  but strangely, UP Bigboy, N&W A would do it just fine.  MTH engines which won't do 36"r are PRR T1, russian decapod, UP 9000 class, RDG T1, N&W J.  Locos which may do less than 36"r MTH 0-6-0 but I haven't tried it.  BTW the MTH UP 9000 has blind drivers on 3rd and 4th axles but would not negotiate a 66"r curve.  It really need a 74" to get around.

 

Matt, great video of your blue goose.  

Once again, thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences with me.

 

The idea was pretty much "fixed": MTH switchers and urban switching.  The original thought was in view of Hi Rail 3 rail... but thought better and decided to ask about 2 rail.

 

Current room size constraints would not allow much deviation from a tightly packed urban setting and switch engines. 

 

I was interested in MTH because, well frankly, I've yet to see a video of a smoking model steam engine that puffs smoke so pronounced and voluminous as MTH products.  Very impressive.  My thinking was that it could be very enjoyable way to spend an evening switching Atlas-quality cars (like 36' reefers and such) in and out of alleys and a small yard with such a huffing, puffing 0-8-0 like MTH's.

 

I needed to hear "reality" from those with experience in this realm.

 

 

I'm a little confused as to what I purchased years ago. I have an MTH 0-8-0 New Haven that came in a box marked scale wheels. Seemed like a normal 3 rail and I had ordered the hi rail version. Blind drivers with only pickup rollers on the tender. Manual has instructions on removing rollers and running it on a 2 rail layout. MTH shows they shipped both models. Hard to believe it was boxed wrong as well as shipped wrong The hi rail model states 031 curves. Scale wheel states 31 radius. Seems the version I have would work on an urban based 2 rail layout. John Prykes HO NH layout comes to mind as it featured street running with numerous switching moves. I add Kadee's to everything. A couple simple brackets made from brass stock and it's a sharp looking engine. John Pryke wrote a book for Kalmbach that covered the operation you want.

"Hard to believe it was boxed wrong as well as shipped wrong.............."

 

Dave, Not really that hard to believe. 

 

Last year I got two boxes direct from the mfg. labeled two rail which contained three rail equipment.  Mistakes happen. 

 

I have also experienced mistaken reboxing at swap meets by others and myself.  

 

Only a couple of times but it has happened, once during processing hundreds of cars at Timonium.

 

Life is not in being perfect but what is done when mistakes are found.