MTH S2 PS1 —> ERR Cruise

Which Railking S2 are you working on?….there’s 2 different models, …one is called a Bantam, which is really small. The other, is a normal sized Railking offering,….so before we speculate, either post up the item no. or a picture of what you’re actually working on,…..

Pat

30-1149-1 it is the normal size one not the baby one

The larger RailKing should be pretty straight-forward to upgrade to TMCC, ERR does have the Steam Turbine RailSounds Commander.

A good place to start is The ERR website. Download the instructions on the Cruise Commander and Sound Commander. I'll be following this topic as I have just started a ERR conversion on a 30-1140-1 SF Northern PS-1. At first glance the only issues I see is lack of power pickup on tender and how to handle the PS-1 smoke unit.

Richard

Y’all’s biggest problem will be how to handle the antenna. It can not touch ground. ie; the outside rail ( or power for that matter ) so you’ll have to figure out how to approach that. popular consensus is to “float” the tender shell and make that the antenna, ….that requires capton tape, nylon screws, blah, blah, blah, …..an approach I do on Premier steam is to knock off some of the coal load ( premier has actual coal as opposed to cast in simulated coal ) lay in a brass strip, drill a hole for the wire, epoxy it down, and then cover that back up with coal,….could be done on Railking steam with some ingenuity, ….either way, you’ve got to keep that antenna wire and plate isolated at all times, and it has to be able to reach it’s audience ( the command base ) ……

Pat  

I've gotten pretty good at floating the shell of the tender for this purpose.  IMO it's more work to tinker with the coal load to accomplish the goal.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've gotten pretty good at floating the shell of the tender for this purpose.  IMO it's more work to tinker with the coal load to accomplish the goal.

And that’s fine, to each his own, ….I can’t stand all that tape, and I  hate nylon screws, …..so I’d rather be in the coal,…..😁

Pat

Probably a little too much work, but being a PRR model, you can fabricate a real antenna on the tender deck like the real one and use that for the TMCC antenna! Pat (Harmonyard ) could probably do that for you.

The antenna would be cool and a perfect solution!

@Chuck Sartor posted:

Probably a little too much work, but being a PRR model, you can fabricate a real antenna on the tender deck like the real one and use that for the TMCC antenna! Pat (Harmonyard ) could probably do that for you.

I can, and yeah, that’d certainly be cool Chuck,…

Pat

Please keep us updated on your progress, I've got the same engine and wanting to upgrade it as well.

I'll go the kapton tape and nylon screws route since my model has an oil tender. Also if you put your err system in the tender you may need a custom tether. My Northern has a four pin connector.

Richard

@harmonyards posted:

I can, and yeah, that’d certainly be cool Chuck,…

Pat

That would definitely be something I’d be interested in doing if you are since all my diesels have the same PRR antenna

@chabs posted:

Please keep us updated on your progress, I've got the same engine and wanting to upgrade it as well.

Definitely will do might even make a video about it since I don’t see any on YouTube and it would be a good thing to jumpstart my channel or at least one of the things I’d like to cover.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The larger RailKing should be pretty straight-forward to upgrade to TMCC, ERR does have the Steam Turbine RailSounds Commander.

Definitely the one I’d go for I wanted one of the legacy ones but I just came into a nice semi scale passenger car set and this one available for cheap at the same time also the sounds are virtually the same. I read something about needing different LEDs for the engine is that true? And the smoke unit situation is that going to be an issue?

The lighting will have to be adjusted for the TMCC.  I'm not sure exactly what is in this one, but it won't be compatible.  I don't think there are any LED's, unless this model has class lights or tender markers, those could be LED.

I just put a couple of bridge rectifiers wires as diode pairs in series with the smoke power to lower it's power to use the standard Cruise Commander smoke output.

"I just put a couple of bridge rectifiers wires as diode pairs in series with the smoke power to lower it's power to use the standard Cruise Commander smoke output." Thanks GRJ, that answers my question on what to do about the PS-1 smoke unit. Shannytom43 did you catch that?. Each diode lowers voltage by .7 v If I am reading this right 2 diode pairs lowers the rack voltage by 2x 1.4 volts.  If you are to moving to leds follow the err instructions. you will need a resisor and diode for each led.

Richard

When you wire the bridge up correctly, it will replace two diode pairs and drop about 1.4 volts.  Two bridges drop about 2.8 volts.  Wire the + and - pins together, and connect the two ~ pins in series with the smoke line.

correction rack = track

Richard

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The lighting will have to be adjusted for the TMCC.  I'm not sure exactly what is in this one, but it won't be compatible.  I don't think there are any LED's, unless this model has class lights or tender markers, those could be LED.

I just put a couple of bridge rectifiers wires as diode pairs in series with the smoke power to lower it's power to use the standard Cruise Commander smoke output.

If they aren’t I’d be one to assume that it’s in my best interest to convert it now.

So I understand this correct I’m going to have to get LEDs and put resistors and diodes on each one. I’m going to be one to assume it has outputs for headlight, tail light and marker. As for the smoke it’s going to be an experiment with how much the cruise commander is going to put out.

Now as far as the antenna goes on the box it says it’s got remote control does that imply it has DCS control and I can use the one originally put in? Never even owned a PS1 locomotive so I’m unsure what qualifies to use DCS.

OK.. Shannytom43...It's late and i'll do my best. LEDs. leds are the way to go. I like warm white 3 mm. for headlights. This is for err cruise commander. Wire the front or rear light short lead  to the front or rear screw terminal of the err cruise commander. done.  Wire the long lead to a 470 ohm 1/4 W resistor and then to the banded end of a 1N4003 diode. Wire the unbanded end of the diode to chassis ground. Cruise commander provides half wave dc (in tmcc mode) for the led. In conventual mode AC mode) the cruise commander provides ac to the diode. That will ruin the diode in time. So the diode is to protect the diode in case of conventual (not TMCC) operation. Forget DCS if you are using err. It uses Tmcc. Have you looked at the cc instructions?

Hope this helps

oops meant "So the diode is to protect the led."

Richard

The Cruise Commander outputs half-wave track power for lighting outputs in command mode, full-wave track power for lighting outputs in conventional mode.  In command mode, the lighting outputs are negative in respect to frame ground, and I assume they are 12V for purposes of calculating resistors.

I use a 470 ohm resistor and a diode for a LED headlight, for dual headlights, I cut the resistor down to 270 ohms.  You can parallel the markers/class lights to the lighting output as it's good for 300-400 milliamps.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The Cruise Commander outputs half-wave track power for lighting outputs in command mode, full-wave track power for lighting outputs in conventional mode.  In command mode, the lighting outputs are negative in respect to frame ground, and I assume they are 12V for purposes of calculating resistors.

I use a 470 ohm resistor and a diode for a LED headlight, for dual headlights, I cut the resistor down to 270 ohms.  You can parallel the markers/class lights to the lighting output as it's good for 300-400 milliamps.

I believe there’s only two front and two rear markers. The headlight should only have one bulb as well as the reverse light just a matter now of figuring out the size of each being as I’m on a time crunch I’m going to try and order parts ahead of time how that works out who knows yet.

As for the coupler do I need to order the ERR one or can I reuse the MTH one? Can the tether be retained also?

PS-1 coupler will work. PS-2 or 3 will not. If you put err in tender you need 2 leads for center rail and outside rail from loco. Two from CC to loco motor. GRJ told us how to power PS-1 smoke so you don't need a smoke lead from tender. (CC has a smoke connection that is usually used but not here) CC has connections for forward light and reverse light. I think one light common will work from cc to both leds. I count seven leads from tender to loco. Take a look at your tether mine has four leads. Take a look at the instructions for CC and this we be more clear.

Richard

Correct count is six. Since we are dealing with a steamer the rear light is in the tender. I blame lack of coffee.

Richard

Hey All,

just wanted to post a quick update since I got home from work a little early than expected. Here’s the engine in question with some lionel aluminum passenger cars that I plan on running as a set hoping to get this conversion done soon will update you with any status on the build

@Rppoind posted:

Correct count is six. Since we are dealing with a steamer the rear light is in the tender. I blame lack of coffee.

Richard

Correct count of leads is seven for a standard ERR Steam installation.  I've done tons of these with the Cruise Commander or AC Commander.  Note that I assume that the chuff comes from the locomotive as I use my Chuff-Generator for proper chuffs/rev of the drivers.  If you stick a magnet on a tender wheel, you can get away with six, but you don't get the proper chuffs based on driver rotation.

• (2) Track Power & Ground
• (2) Motor
• (1) Chuff
• (1) Headlight
• (1) Smoke

@Shannytom43 posted:

Hey All,

just wanted to post a quick update since I got home from work a little early than expected. Here’s the engine in question with some lionel aluminum passenger cars that I plan on running as a set hoping to get this conversion done soon will update you with any status on the build

Side note: if anyone is in need of a QSI turbine sound board I’d be more than happy to send it your way

GRJ.....You are correct 7 if chuff is generated in loco. My most recent used 2 magnets on a 3d printed tender wheel (thanks Norm C for your printer file). chuff's are right on.

Richard

A turbine has zero chuffs per rev so any number of magnets on a tender wheel will work and save you the hassle of running an extra wire in a tether. You don’t even have to do a good job spacing them.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

A turbine has zero chuffs per rev so any number of magnets on a tender wheel will work and save you the hassle of running an extra wire in a tether. You don’t even have to do a good job spacing them.

That's an excellent point Norm, I didn't even notice what engine we were talking about!

Me neither. By the way...I do not understand how railsounds synchs up with the 2 magnet tender wheel, but it does. I have even stopped the loco and hand turned the chuff wheel to be out of synch and after the first chuff it's back in perfect time.

Richard

@Rppoind posted:

Me neither. By the way...I do not understand how railsounds synchs up with the 2 magnet tender wheel, but it does. I have even stopped the loco and hand turned the chuff wheel to be out of synch and after the first chuff it's back in perfect time.

I have no idea what you're seeing, clearly it's magic.  I've done a lot of installs using the tender wheel in the distant past, and I never saw one sync with the drivers on the locomotive.  I also see no way that it could possibly do that, but I won't belabor the point.  I can say with certainty that it doesn't happen for 99.9% of the upgrades that are done.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

A turbine has zero chuffs per rev so any number of magnets on a tender wheel will work and save you the hassle of running an extra wire in a tether. You don’t even have to do a good job spacing them.

I remember seeing you did that with a lionel one to boost the sounds might have to consider doing it that way

On that one, I used the chuff input in the tender to goose the sensitivity of the angry hair dryer sounds while keeping the 2 lobe chuff cam input intact in the engine. The old RS4 has chuff inputs available on the motherboards in the engine and in the tender. The old TMCC scale turbine is probably the only case where you could use both. The ERR turbine board probably has better sounds compared to the old RS4 version.

So quick update putting it together for the first time as I type this. Ended up needing to change the traction tires they were so worn I could comfortably fit a new one inside of the old ones should be posting a running video shortly