MTH T-1 Duplex keeps throwing "one" Tire

Would check that that wheel distance on that driver matches the other three.

Also that the tire face is flush with the wheel face.

 

I have the MTH scale PRR T1 and have pulled long heavy trains without any tires coming off.

 

Some may suggest a little dab of  GOO in the groove before installing to keep the tire on.

 

Hope you solve this problem and let us know

Wow that is strange. Are the wheels the same size? check the diameters. Do both tires go on tight? Does this happen in reverse also?

Hello,  Yes, the tire does go on tight...and I did try a bit of super-glue...same result...the tire slides right off...almost as if the tire groove in the wheel isn't machined deep enough. I have verified that there is "no debris" in the tire groove etc.  It is shiny bright clean, and as I noted in the first post, I carefully wiped it down with cleaner to remove any smoke fluid, oily residue etc. It does happen in forward or reverse, and again only the right side.  I will try and attach a photo. 

It looks like the forward wheel with thrown tire is not properly centered on the track, and compared to the rear driver.

I think the wheel gauge for the driver has to be possibly adjusted outward.

Maybe a authorized MTH repair can help out.

Hello,  Heres a close up of the machined groove in the wheel without the tire, and a close up of the wheel with the tire in place.  I'm starting to think that the machined groove in the wheel wasn't machined deep enough to "hold" the tire, or excessive running (only 300+ miles on the odometer), could have somehow worn down the outer rim...? I just purchased this T-1 so I don't know too much of it's past history....but it appeared to still have the original tires on it and I wouldn't think 300 miles would wear out a wheel..?

Looks like you could be right.

A call the factory would probably be best, and discuss the problem with the service dept.

 

Order some new tires from MTH.

Hello PennsyK4,  I think that may be just the angle of the photo, I looked carefully at all the wheels with the locomotive upside down and they appear to be perfectly aligned on each set of drivers. Also, I checked "end play" on each axle and it is the same, and is not excessive on any of the axles. Everything looks to be tight, and in alignment. I'm beginning to think it's the groove in the wheel is too shallow to hold the tire...or the outer rim somehow got worn down and is no longer high enough to hold the tire from sliding right off when the wheels rotate..? Coukd that be possible..?

I put new tires on it...same result

With only 300 miles on the odometer this engine is practically new and if new tires have not solved the problem it might have always had it. I really can't see that such a short amount of running time would have worn down the outside rim of the wheel. I have a brand new 3rd rail engine that threw a tire the first time I ran it and replacing the tire did not help - the wheel was not properly machined. Fortunately this made no difference to pulling power and the model is mainly a display piece anyway. But this kind of manufacturing defect happens.

 

P.S. Looking at your close up photos I wonder about one other thing. You say you have tried using a new tire but are you using one of the spares that came with the model or a new one from MTH? My experience has been that the spares deteriorate over time or are the wrong size to begin with. I can't see that the rim is too low to hold a properly fitting tire in place BUT (a) how does it compare with the wheel on the left side and (b) have you noticed any bad dent or flat spot in the rim, which can come from dropping the engine or misaligning it on a display track?

Hello, I took the close up posted photo with the original tire back on the wheel, that's why it appears dirty etc. I have tried all combinations of new and old, side to side etc. and the result is the same...it slips the tire. The new Tire is the replacement that came with the train that was in a plasctic bag. It fits the rim very tight, is not dry-rotted and would seem to sit in the groove at the same depth as the original tire. Comparing the "lip" on the wheel from the left side to the right side wheel, the right side wheel lip does not appear to have the same height so maybe it is a factory issue in that the wheel was not machined just right and now with some wear on it, it can't hold the tire in place. I guess it's something that will have to be taken care of at MTH.  Thanks all.

The tire is stretched and no longer fits the wheel tight enough. Replace that tire with a new one. I use tires one size smaller than the originals.

Hello...One last observation...I took a close up of the "left" side wheel (no tire problem) with the Tire off (1st photo); and the right side wheel, 2nd photo (wheel with the tire problem).  From these two photos I guess it becomes pretty obvious the issue "is"  with the machining of the tire groove. The 1st photo (left side) has an easily noticible deeper groove and higher lip than does the 2nd photo of the right side wheel, which is where the problem is occuring. It would seem that the right wheel will need to be replaced.  Does anyone concur..?  Thanks again to all who took the time to respond. 

I had a MTH Hudson that did the same thing. Always throwing the same tire. I tried a couple of new tires with the same result. Finally, after reading about it on this forum, I tried silicone. It worked great! That was three years ago and it is still working, pulling 9 passenger cars. Try doing a search and read more about it.  

Good Luck,

 

Bob

Hello Bobby...Thanks for the reply.  I did try putting on new Tires which didn't help. I just psted some photos of the two drivers, left and right side. I think they show that the problem is in the machining of the right wheel not being deep enough and it is allowing the tire to "slide off".  The T-1 will most likely have to go back to MTH to have the wheel pulled and replaced. 

Hello Bob....What did you do....pack the tire groove with silicone and then when it set up it acted like a tire..?  Weren't there issues with getting it level and even..?

I think that the previous owner may have run it without a traction tire before. Maybe he didn't know it at the time, but I've seen this before and the wear going around wore down the flange of the tire groove.You may need a new wheel if you can get it or try woodland scenics accent glue #a198. Put it on very thin and after it dries then slip your tire over it. (The glue stays tacky)

You might consider using some glue to keep the tire on.  I've never tried it, but I've seen it recommended here several times.

 

Hello,  I did try some CA (super glue) with one of the new tires. I didn't go completely around the wheel with it but put the tire on the wheel, then lifted the tire off the wheel with a toothpick and placed CA in 4 places and let it dry. Same result, it threw the new tire off even with the glue.  I think because of the size of these Drivers and the torque generated because only one set of Drivers is equipped with Tires, it's too much grip on the flat profile rail of the RealTrax and because the rim, or lip is already too shallow (see my pics in a previous post), it's just sliding the tire right off. I'm thinking it's going to need a new wheel to keep the tire on.   Thanks for your suggestions.

The Original tire for the scale T1 is part# DE-0000031 or 31 millimeter tire. You could try a 29 millimeter tire part # DE-0000029 if you have availibility to get one. With everything you have tried it might not help but worth a try. If the wheel throws the 29 mm tire then I too think that there is a problem with the wheel. I am not 100% sure but I don't think you can buy just one wheel for this engine. You may have to replace the whole frame with wheel assembly if one is available.

I think Forest is correct, you probably have to buy the whole frame.

 

If the pictures are not deceptive, I think you do have a bad groove on the one side, which would certainly explain the tire walking off.

 

Put engine in a cradle upside down, apply just enough power to get wheels creeping and apply a little silicone at a time as the wheel is turning. Small amounts are the key. Multiple applications might be necessary.  The silicone must cure, sometimes a few days. A toothpick or popsicle stick works good to get it smooth on the groove. It probably sounds more complicated than it is, and when my Climax needs a tire, I'm definitly going to use silicone.  RTV silicone is what I used. Let me know and I'll get the brand. I printed that post, it was about five years ago.

 

Bob

You might be correct on the wheel replacement.  Here is a reach for you to try.  With the engine upside down. run the engine slow and hit the groove with a file to rough it up a bit and try a new tire.  I would try an undersized tire like Bobby does.

One other thing, clean the metal wheel with a qtip and alcohol. Get it to where you don't see any black stuff on the qtip or wheel and then put a clean tire back on it.

This makes sense to me as I can't imagine that this problem is entirely new since you got the engine and it's a more likely explanation than a factory defect. 

 

Another possible solution is Bullfrog Snot (see http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/faq.asp), which I have tried when all else failed. You have to build it up in layers on an O gauge wheel and it takes a little time but there's no slippage. I agree agree Marty's idea of roughing up the surface of the wheel - whether or not you try another size tire.

The groove sure does'nt look deep enough. I would just run it without the tire. I don't know if that groove is deep enough for the silicon to work well. Changing the wheel would be my last option.

use a gasket cement . if you need to replace again the tire will peel off rather easy.With it glued on you'll have a messy scenario

I tried using CA to hold a tire on, but if the CA does not go all the around, the tire will bunch-up and cause the locomotive to waddle. I would try Marty's idea of filling the groove deeper and using a the next smaller diameter tire.

Hello To all who have posted responses to my MTH PRR T-1 tire throwing problem...."Thank you" to everyone who has taken the time to offer their help and post possible solutions to the problem.  "All"  are good suggestions. I have contacted the original owner from whom I purchased the T-1 and he has graciously offered to take the Locomotive back and refund my purchase price...so...I guess I have to decide if I want to go that route, or try and get this thing working on my own. I did notice that yes, it appears to run ok with the tire "off", however, I would think (my opinion), that if the Locomotive is run frequently, this could leand to further issues down the road as the wheel may wear un-evenly.  Seeing as I tried most of the simple options like super cleaning the wheel with alcohol and track cleaner;  CA glue; and swapping different Tires, and using the new tires supplied with the T-1, it would be time for the more unusual approaches. I do think Marty's suggestion to rough up the wheel to give the tire "more bite", is a good suggestion, as well as the silicone application in lieu of any tire at all. I have to decide whether I want to "modify"  the T-1 in hopes of getting the tire to stay on, or simply return it to it's original owner and let him decide how he wants to approach the problem.  I'm thinking if both wheels and the motor assembly have to be replaced, (if the parts are even available), it would be fairly expensive. This locomotive is 7 yeras old so warranty replacement is not an option, and at that age, replacement parts may not be an option. It is too beautiful a Locomotive to become a shelf queen so I've got a decision to make.  I just want to "Thank all"  once again for all the good advice and "thought"  put into solving this issue.  Now I have to make a decision.... 

Well, although I hate to admit defeat, I think the prudent move is to ship it back.  Even if you could get the wheels, it takes some skill and the right tools to get them on correctly.  I really do think that groove is not right and you'll never get a tire to stay on properly.

I had a Sunset T1 which was a notorious tire chucker...on both sides !   Great engine otherwise, and I'd never dream of letting her go.  So...I got some 75" driver tires, and then cut a very slight amount off each one.  Say about .010- .015".   This ensured that they were going to be fully seated in the grooves.  I had run the locomotive for about 2-3 months without realizing the tires had come off !   After a thorough cleaning and surface prep, the new trimmed, undersized tires went on.  They went on really tight, but there were no stretched spots, so no wobble.  Ran the Big TEE for several hours in every direction, without trouble.  Then put her on a BIG freight train.  Couldn't get ol' 5511 to slip, or blow a tire! She's now the queen that she was designed to be!  Good success in your efforts.

I have come to the same conclusion gunrunnerjohn...I do think the smart move at this point is for me to return the Locomotive. I have advised the Seller of the "thread" on this Forum and it will be his decision if he decides to try any of the helpful responses posted here. Thanks again to all who took the time to respond.  I have reached the decision to "return" the T-1 to it's original Owner so I am ending my involvement in this "posting"...Thanks again....!

Wondering if you could not get a new driver tire from MTH for this chooch. After all, it's an 80" driver, and very common among the product line.  Either you or MTH could re-install the new tire, after the old one is removed.   Otherwise, return the chooch, and find another PRR T1.  They are out there, but not always easy to find.  BTW, the tires I'm talking about are NOT the rubber ones but the brass or steel ones pressed over the cast driver centers.  This works just like the real chooch in this regard.