MTH track is horrible.

@Merlin posted:

Does this MTH track in the older sets just go bad for no reason?

Oh, it has a reason. The spring metal contacts get dirty, out of alignment, broken, & lose tension. It's a wear & tear issue. FasTrack is not immune either.

mth track also is not gauged correctly I've even seen track shorts from poor gauging and there mth track on small 040 engines O gauge like the general set!

Alan

Although the modern, more realistic look of FasTrack and the high-end MTH track have their virtues, sometimes newer isn't necessarily better, especially over time in temporary layouts. The fallback option ... use O-gauge tubular track. Nowadays, that vintage style track is made by Menards (after it was discontinued by Lionel).

Christmas carpet layouts installed around the base of the tree must endure connecting, disconnecting, and re-connecting the track pieces (next year). That "wear and tear" can take its toll on the joining pins.

Just saying ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

I have Realtrax and Scaletrax and have had no problems with either. Fastrack I discovered that the pins snap easily. Especially if grandson is using them. Again, even with him, no problems with either MTH track

I'll take "O" Gauge tubular track every day over everything else.

Merlin,

A realtrax lock-on will only ground one side of the outside rails of the track. While the axles of the rolling stock will transfer the ground, it's not the most reliable connection. I've used Realtrax around the tree before and seen this happen too. My first fix was to place a second lock-on about half way around my loop on the opposite side of the track so that the lock-on would provide ground to the other rail.  Later on, I simply soldered a jumper wire on several pieces of track to link both outside rails.

To clean my track I use CRC Clean & Protect #3140 which does a very nice cleaning up any track, you'll be surprised how much grime it will remove from clean track with little effort. It doesn't take much, I just spray a little on a cloth and wipe dirty track until bright & clean. CRC 3140 is a non-polar cleaner which will prevent arcing and resists future build up on your track.

On a hardwood floor I really liked using Realtrax because they offer rubber feet that can be installed on the bottom that prevent it from sliding around and helps some with noise reduction.  Starting last year, we setup a loop of lighted Fastrack and this year it gave us some minor troubles with bad connections at the track pin connections, a quick pinch with a needle-nose pliers fixed that problem.

Years ago we used tubular and I don't really miss it much. I remember fighting problems with random and unexplained shorts due to the center rail insulator being worn out. Plus, it bends over pretty easy when a kid steps on it, maybe not a problem in adult-only homes but it was an issue more than once growing up with it being our only choice for a while.

I prefer the O gauge tubular track. With a little TLC, it will last for decades.   I've stepped on it many times with no issues.  And now days it's getting pretty affordable. I like the ability to cut it with a hacksaw or dremel tool to get exactly the piece I need.

@aussteve posted:

I prefer the O gauge tubular track. With a little TLC, it will last for decades.   I've stepped on it many times with no issues.  And now days it's getting pretty affordable. I like the ability to cut it with a hacksaw or dremel tool to get exactly the piece I need.

Same here.  In addition...

If desired, tubular track can be made to look more realistic by adding ties and ballast, or you can keep the classic old-school look.

I've had occasional problems with center-rail insulation shorts - mostly with newer tubular track - but they're easy to fix.  Normal procedure is to do a quick continuity test on each piece before installation.

In addition to being widely available, if you don't mind doing a little cleanup work you can find used track at bargain prices - people can barely give it away at meets.   

Another thread here regarding the virtues of Fastrack for seasonal layouts. Second verse, same as the first.......

My only preference for using FT over tubular is the plastic road bed. Makes laying it over carpet much easier. I would use tubular otherwise.

Bob

@Mallard4468 posted:

I've had occasional problems with center-rail insulation shorts - mostly with newer tubular track - but they're easy to fix.  Normal procedure is to do a quick continuity test on each piece before installation.

In addition to being widely available, if you don't mind doing a little cleanup work you can find used track at bargain prices - people can barely give it away at meets.   

I remember my dad and I pulling the track apart piece by piece and testing each one. It was a a good learning experience for me but it was still frustrating. A few times the track would test okay disassembled but would still short out when we put it back together. We found that the stress & forces applied to the assembled track would cause a short though the tiniest piece of worn insulation that was pretty much naked to the eye. So I also learned how to replace the insulators too, sometimes when not needed. Valuable learning experiences and memories with dad, something a flawless product can't provide!

100% agree about the availability, our local Menards sells tubular in wide variety of lengths and diameters.  Extremely easy to run into town and pick up what you need and be home before dinner.  Also, Menards sells a tubular to Fastrack adapter that is much cheaper than Lionel ($5 if memory serves me correct).

And for those who like to add just a little more each year, Fastrack offers a large selection of of specialty pieces like crossings, bridges, bumpers, ect. and switches are still in regular production if that's something you want to deal with around the tree...

My last plug for Realtrax is that it doesn't rust. Put it in a cardboard box after Christmas and 11 months in a humid attic doesn't bother it. We'd wipe down our tubular track at the end of the year and clean it with some CRC only to find that it started to rust from the inside out.

No matter what you choose, put a train around the tree and enjoyment will follow!

Definitely agree with the above point regarding putting a lock-on on both sides of the track. Realtrax outer rails are isolated(which makes for a slightly easier set-up of track activated accessories) only connected when there’s a train on the tracks. Also- there’s some BAD realtrax out there. I once bought some of the older, more conductive solid rail realtrax with the slightly lighter gray roadbed.  There were dead spots galore, trains stopping after 10 seconds, my voltmeters didnt indicate an electrical connection between clearly attached section- took all of that lot of track off my layout and Eventually it found use as display track.

After tubular I went to realtrax first. At the time I had classic tmcc and just bought the TIU. 3 to 4 years later, the remaining reLtrax on my layout and former layout pieces that make up my test loop still work well- although the contractor pins between tracks have broken on maybe 3 pieces.

I think I didn’t have a headache with Realtrax because I “prepped” the track by creating larger sections(Ex.: Three 10” sections became one 30” or or 3 o42 curves soldered together) to decrease the number of gaps. I’d either scratch the black paint off the bottom of the center rail and solder wires between sections, solder the pins together, or both. While larger sections, specifically the curves, can be unwieldy to store, I think this approach helped keep the life in my realtrax. Further, it always kept consistent power and or a good signal for DCS, TMCC, Legacy, conventional.

Properly done, tubular track looks just as good as any but the most high end track types(o27 profile even better!). I moved away from it because I wanted to go above an o31 curve and at the time, such curves were difficult to find in tubular and weren’t worth the time & cost.

Really like Gargraves & Atlas but changing to that, for me at least, would’ve required ballasting and my skills at modeling weren’t there yet and I’m not sure if they are now. However, if I could ballast back then & was as confident in my ability to troubleshoot & wire correctly as I am now, I would’ve went with Gargraves.

Early MTH track had a black center rail made from something that came off on the rollers. If you have that track, get a Scotch Brite and scrub the black off the top of the rail.

I don't think it is the track as much as the fact that when you put together and take apart the track when it is track combined with roadbed like fast track and real trax, it is relatively fragile. Tubular is a pretty solid beast, especially the traditional O tubular, and in large part was designed for ruggedness, because back in the day most trains were being either used temporarily for Christmas tree setups, or kids "played" with the trains on the floor, then took them apart when they were done and put away. I think Fast Track and Real Trax can last a long time, but it just means being careful when you take them apart and checking the contact springs and tabs before putting them together.

To me, unballasted Gargraves doesn't look any worse than molded "ballasted" FasTrack. Plus, it's very durable, easy to use and (I mention this because it's December 7) still made in New York state...which, as you know, is in the US. 

Mark in Oregon (also in the US) 🎄

Fear of intermittents in my permanent layout that I experienced with floor setups, lead me to solder each joint underneath before securing it to the table. When I had a section I could not turn over as in curves attached to straights, I soldered the curves contacts along with attaching wires to hook to the wires attached to the next soldered section.  Blocks were created by bending the metal contacts out of the way, soldering wires to them that came through holes in the table and wired to where they needed to go.  Bending the contacts out of the way on the outside rail is also a way to make those operating sections described in the Lionel books where you insulated an outside rail like the center, and used insulating pins.  For MTH, a bit of plastic placed between rail ends keeps expansion from forcing them together and making a connection.

I had the original MTH RealTrax and had nothing but connectivity problems with it.  Finally sold it and went to FasTrack for my temporary Christmas layout.  I have had no issues with FasTrack.

I went to FasTrack instead of traditional tubular because I remember my brother saying how mom got very mad at him one year because of the oil streak on the carpet that formed under the track (probably due to over lubrication).   With FasTrack the carpet is protected.

If someone, would just make rubber roadbed, the problem would be solved.

Early Realtrax has one spotweld securing the copper contact to the rail.  This spotweld can fail causing a discontinuity in the track section.  If the copper contact wiggles, the spotweld has broken.  Later versions of the track, especially with hollow rail, have two spot welds.  A continuity check with a VOM from opposite ends of the track at the copper contacts will spot a bad connection.  I fix them by drilling a 3/32” hole through the contact, into the rail, then fill with solder using a pencil soldering iron.

Repeated assembling/disassembling the track tends to stress the connections with both Fastrack and Realtrax.  It’s best to install it on a board for a seasonal layout and leave it in place.  Using a lockon on both the inside and outside rails on opposite sides of the layout will help alleviate one or more bad connections.

Most of the track on my pretty large layout (25x55) is Ross, but I have a large section of early realtrax laid down permanently 20 years ago. It has performed flawlessly for all those years. The stuff is fine if you leave it in place.

  Please folks get this horrible track out of your house !  Send it to the High Plains 3 Railers. They will put it to good use taken it apart and putting together at shows thruout the year. We have been using it for over 20 years. We only use 072 and 082 inch curves. See it in action at the Boulder Model Railroad show this weekend. 

@HiramO posted:

.... "The stuff is fine if you leave it in place."

I fully agree with this statement.  This is can be said of any track out there.  Put it down once and don't touch it again will equate to flawless performance. 

Sure, put it down for 20 years and you won’t have a problem is a easy answer. Try having young kids who want the train working around the tree immediately. I previously used fast track for years with no problem. I have older brand new MTH Railking sets where the track was never taking out of the box and tried 2 sets and they both failed. They where the lighter grey track. I checked every connection and drove me crazy for 2 days. I guess this is how we learn the hobby the hard way.

I've used Fastrack, RealTrax and tubular track over the years and have had no real issues with any of them and small intermittent and easily fixed problems with all three, Tubular with track crimped too tight and shorting thru the insulating paper, RealTrax with bent connectors and Fastrack with stopping and stuttering trains and dirt/corrosion issues with all three. But that said for a temporary Christmas set up I'd go with tubular, a vintage look, easy to find and bullet proof for playing with by kids.

Jerry

I have used a compromise for many years:  put the track down permanently, but take up the board it is screwed to every year   If you have the space to store the board--vertical, of course--this option has the virtues of fast set up, secure joints between track section, and protecting the carpet.

I had good luck with Tubular track switched to fast track had pickup and joint problems, currently using atlas and so far it been fine, better than fast track

By the way, another advantage of a board under the tree for floor running is that the track is not subjected to as much working up and down.  O (and Standard) gauge trains can heavy, especially the engines.  The variations in weight causes a lot of vertical motion as the trains go over the track, especially on carpet.  (Lionel even made use of this motion with their Contactors).  That vertical motion wears on the joints, opening up tubular rails and sheet-metal rail joiners.  Laying the track on a board--even better, attaching it to the board--really helps to limit that wear.Yule2022

The reason for the carpet on the Christmas train was it was too loud on the floor. You could here it downstairs and upstairs running. The old lady wasn’t happy about that so I bought the round rug to keep the noise down.

I put a square of carpet under the board of the circle of track I use in my office.  It quiets the noise but retains the advantages of permanent track configuration.

@Strummer posted:

To me, unballasted Gargraves doesn't look any worse than molded "ballasted" FasTrack. Plus, it's very durable, easy to use and (I mention this because it's December 7) still made in New York state...which, as you know, is in the US. 

Mark in Oregon (also in the US) 🎄

I’ll have to give it a legit try on a larger portion of my layout. i’ve  experimented with some Gargraves on the layout but only as long straightaways leading into a realtrax or fastrack transition sections which wasn’t that visually appealing to me. That said, the issue remains for me with having mainly fastrack turnouts which are super convenient and don’t feel like converting those to Ross, Atlas or Gargraves and dealing with the switch motor-But that’s besides the point

The title that MTH track is horrible is total nonsense.  RealTrax is fantastic track....way better than the Lionel version.  I have a large permanent layout and it's the best.  If you want to undo it all the time, and put it on soft carpet, you should use tubular track for example.  

Boy I'll tell you, you can find any information for anything about model  trains on this forum, no matter what the subject if you ask it on here somebody probably knows something about it

@RSJB18 posted:

Another thread here regarding the virtues of Fastrack for seasonal layouts. Second verse, same as the first.......

My only preference for using FT over tubular is the plastic road bed. Makes laying it over carpet much easier. I would use tubular otherwise.

Bob

The Lionel fastrack is great on carpet, but the movement of the track can’t and will cause issues with the center pin. It keeps the rug clean, but a little service before the set up goes a long way. Tubular track is perfect because when building a custom layout you have no issues with that last piece being and odd size. I also find it’s very easy to troubleshoot versus the others.

@ThatGuy posted:

The Lionel fastrack is great on carpet, but the movement of the track can’t and will cause issues with the center pin. It keeps the rug clean, but a little service before the set up goes a long way. Tubular track is perfect because when building a custom layout you have no issues with that last piece being and odd size. I also find it’s very easy to troubleshoot versus the others.

I only use FT for my Christmas loops. It gets cleaned and inspected before laying it down. I also use binder clips underneath to hold the sections together.
My layout is mostly tubular, it is the easiest to work with and cut to fit where necessary.

Bob

When I lay my Tubular Track over carpet every year for the around the tree Christmas layout. I use a piece of cheap tight weave indoor/outdoor carpet over top.

It keeps random fibers from the carpet from getting into the mechanics of the cars, and provides a focus point for the trains.

It also makes a good primary layout covering and reduces sound when laid over plywood

Home Depot has a really nice Mottled Green that looks sort of grassy.

You can look it up google:   Home Depot SKU # 203469226

still made in New York state...which, as you know, is in the US.

Lately I wonder

"Lately I wonder"

Wonder no more.  New York State is definitely south of the nearest foreign territory.  I checked twice. 

Lots of interesting history here, even aside from New York City, one of the world's great cities.

Our modern history in Western New York dates to before the French and Indian War.  Woman's Rights National Historic Park in Seneca Falls honoring the first major conference advocating in 1848 for the woman's vote,  near Geneva, just 40-45 minutes from North Rose (home of Gardner the Train Doctor hobby shop).  Great hobby shop there as well as in East Rochester (Despatch Junction).  Just east of Rochester, where the 1950s Lionel layouts are still operating at Edgerton Park.

Indeed, the Iroquois nation (the major Native American confederation in Upstate NY) gave our European immigrant ancestors some of the key concepts that went into the Constitution.  The Ganondagan State Museum in the Rochester area (Victor) documents this Native American history and culture just a wee bit southwest of where Gargraves track is made, also in North Rose to make this definitively train related.

@rdj92807 posted:

RealTrax is fantastic track....

I'll second that ! I used Realtrax on my old permanent layout and out of the couple hundred pieces  including a 45 crossing and a pair of O31 and a pair of O72 switches I only had one 10" section give me trouble. For some reason any locomotive no matter which direction of travel would stutter and stall on it and nothing I did seemed to help in fact it got worse, I finally bit the bullet and removed it (no small feat given its location in a tunnel) and then no issues ever again. But since my new layout is planned to be more retro in style I'm going with tubular for that build. I've no plans however to get rid of my Realtrax, I have the good stuff, early production and solid rails and I just can't bring myself to part with several hundred pieces that I have.

Jerry

@rdj92807 posted:

The title that MTH track is horrible is total nonsense.  RealTrax is fantastic track....way better than the Lionel version.  I have a large permanent layout and it's the best.  If you want to undo it all the time, and put it on soft carpet, you should use tubular track for example.  

I agree that Realtrax isn’t horrible, but OP is entitled to his opinion. I’m sure all of us have had contradictory experiences with certain brands or specific problems that either taints them or makes us love them.

That said, your post highlights what I think is a major problem with Realtrax. Both Realtrax & Fastrack use the fact that they have the built-in roadbed to prevent the occurrence of small things laying on the carpet from getting into the motor/inner workings of a loco- which should be PERFECT for a seasonal, carpet central type layout. However, the fact that they don’t lend themselves to being broken up is a major negative to the selling point that it’s superior to tubular for floor layout. I’d argue that it’s probably more cost-effective to have extra realtrax or fastrack on hand to swap out rather than risk something getting up into the loco- but that’s just my opinion. Just thought it was worth pointing these things out

"they have the built-in roadbed to prevent the occurrence of small things laying on the carpet from getting into the motor/inner workings of a loco- which should be PERFECT for a seasonal, carpet central type layout."

Also protects the floor and carpet from oil and other less than desirable droppings .