My Lionel Lion Chief Plus is great, but I do have a question...

The engine should run fine at 14 volts. Check it out and see if that helps the buzz. The Hudson looks at home on that layout.

Those old switches seem to buzz whether operated at a constant high voltage as w. LC+ or legacy, or if operated conventionally whenever you go to about 15V or higher.  I had a couple of them I was using seven or eight year ago that would buzz a lot, no matter what I did.  I think the 60 cycle power was causing some resonance or vibration in them that got really bad above about 15V.  Regardless, it did not seem to hurt them, or the trains.  I haven't had them on the layout for going on seven years now - they are in a box somewhere now, but they were working well when I took them up in 2007.

Thanks for bringing it up.  I had a similar problem a few weeks ago and didn't know what the deal was.  Ended up removing the switches from my layout.

Side note, could you include a plan of your layout please?  I really like the look of it from the video.

Glad you like it...never had a permanent layout growing up...luckily I kept some of the train collection that I had in the late 40's and 50's and 65 years later I was able to put this layout together. Some old, some newer and some really new with lots of action for friends, family and everyone's grandkids. Although I do admit...I am having fun with it too!

As for a drawing, I don't have one...I started with the center section, added the residential area on the right side, liked it and then added the industrial section on the left. 

I have included 5 photos going from left to right...hope that is of some help.

First, let me say your layout looks great and that it would be fun to operate. It is a perfect example of an "O Gauge Layout in a Small Space".

Second, I agree with Moonman, running the LC+ Hudson at 14 volts just might solve the noise problem or, at the least, reduce it significantly.

A question, at what voltages do you run conventionally?

Ed Boyle

Hi Ed,

Actually I am using a CW-80 for track power, so for conventional it would be variable. All of the accessories are run at fixed voltage through the TW that I've had since the 50's and have lugged with me through multiple moves over 60 some years. As mentioned earlier, the thought of operating at 14 volts +/-, might help to reduce noise from the switches and I plan on trying that this evening. Do you have a recommendation for setting the throttle on the CW-80 to approximate that voltage level? And do you think that by lowering the voltage...any features of the LC+ be affected...i.e. smoke generation, etc.?

Thanks for your comments.

Paul

Paul,

I think the major effect of running at a constant lower voltage (14 volts) using the LC+ hand held will be that the Hudson will not go as fast. That's what happened when I tried using a lower voltage with my LC+ Mikado.

Can't comment on smoke output because I was not paying any attention to it when I was operating at 14 volts. Everything else worked at 14 volts; including sound and the electro-coupler.

I usually run my two LC+ steamer at 17 volts, as seen on my Z-4000 meters,  and have not noticed any difference from running at 18 volts.

To find out the exact voltage on your CW-80, you are going to need a meter. Or you can crank up the throttle part way and experiment what setting still allows you to run the Hudson in command and also quiets the switches significantly.

Heck, come to think of it, that would be the traditional 3-rail way to do it

Who needs meters anyway!

Ed Boyle

It's a neat looking layout.

I was curious how the whole layout might look, so I did a rudimentary overlay of the photos. You can see how the angles don't match up between the photos, but it gives some idea.

I usually recommend using a separate power supply for switches instead of feeding them directly off of the track power.  That way you have better control over how much power to supply to both the switches and the trains, and helps avoid situations like what you're encountering.

John,

Good point.  That should solve Paul's problem, providing that he wants to use a separate power supply for the switches.

trestrainfan,

Thanks for doing the overlay. It gives a much idea of what Paul's neat little layout looks like.

Ed Boyle

I tried building it in SCARM, but I'm guessing you have some custom cut track.  But here is what I was able to figure out from the photos.  Let me know if it's right or needs some tweaks.  SCARM file included.

Sinclair,

The rendition is very close and that software looks like it would be fun to play with. A couple of changes would make for a completed update...first, the curve on the bottom of the left section actually mirrors the one on the right...and extends to the tables edge. Secondly, there is one more switch on the upper right track on the inner loop (behind the buildings) and that allows for redirecting the train before exiting back onto the outer main track. The overall length across the back of the layout is 16 feet. The center section  is 5x9 feet and the two wings are 3x7 feet each. Thanks for your interest.

Ed and John,

Always thought that having fixed voltage to the switches would be great...however, rewiring those 5121 and 5122 switches, as shown by Mike Reagan in one of his videos...is not as easy as how it is shown in the video. Started down that path, stopped and took an immediate turn toward the door! Still going to try the lower voltage idea for noise suppression yet tonight.

Paul,

I understand why you would not want to modify the switches to take advantage of a lower fixed voltage for them.  Please let us know how reducing the voltage on the whole layout to run the LC+ Hudson worked for you.

Thanks.

Ed Boyle

I had a feeling that there might be a switch back there, but couldn't tell from the photos.  So here it is updated.  The overall size is still off, but that wasn't my main concern, just getting all the switches and paths was.  My layout will be with Atlas track so it'd all change anyway if I use something like this.  I have a plan for a room sized layout that I like, but it'd be 4-5 years min to finish, where I could do something like yours in 2 years.  I'm still undecided at this point, but I do have that Lionel Big Boy on order, and it would require more room than this if it's on the layout.  But it could be on an overhead shelf loop.  As you can see, I have a lot going on in my head.

Great looking layout!

Peter

Ed,

i did try running with the lower voltage and it seemed to help, smoke reduction was minimal, if at all...I also added oversized rubber washers between the outer plastic housing unit and the top of the metal soleniod cover. That caused some added pressure between the two when the plastic housing was reattached and may also help to reduce the vibration. Hopefully good from this will result in the long haul!

Sinclair,

Thanks for taking the time to correct the computer generated layout design...other than slight dimensional corrections, that is definitely how the layout was designed and looks.

Peter,

Thanks for your comment...as a 70 something...I'm having fun with it.

Best regards... 

Paul,

Your experience with running the LC+Hudson at reduced voltage seems to help confirm what a good design it is. The minimal smoke reduction at lower voltage is another plus.  Thanks for your input.

Ed Boyle

What are the options if the LC+  remote controller is lost or fatally damaged?  Could another controller be obtained for that specific loco or is conventional mode the only way to operate it w/o the original controller?

Thanks

Tom B

Each LionChief or LionChief Plus loco has a remote with the loco name and road number on it, and Lionel has said that replacements will be available.  I guess we'll have

to see as no one has reported the need to order one yet.

THAT is a nice layout.

I would consider independently powering the switches and the track.  It can't hurt.  Might not solve the issue, but it is a start.  And it would ensure track power is for engines only and not for anything else.  I would also consider - if easy to do - isolating any accessories (buildings, crossings etc.) to its own power suppluy as well.  Someone might have suggested the latter above, so if they did, I guess mine is not an original thought!

Again, a GREAT layout.

John,

Thanks for your thoughts. Actually, the track, switches and locomotive power is currently being supplied by a CW-80 transformer. All of the working accessories, lights, buildings, etc., are all powered at a fixed voltage by an original Lionel TW transformer that I have had from the 50's. Everything works as it should, just have some items that seem to be a little quirky...but then that is appearing to be more normal, with model train layouts, than I had anticipated! 

Paul

The best solution to the switch problem might be to see if one can find some Kline 027 switches that were made to run on constant voltage.  I bought six years ago and they are still in the box, just in case I decide to build a small 027 layout.  It's too bad Lionel didn't make them when they had the rights to Kline items.

The "fix" is disclosed here:

"Modify O-27 Switches For External Power and Capacitive Discharge Switching"