My thoughts on the MTH F3

jonnyspeedOGR Forum Member

I finally purchased an MTH F3. You know... Support them and hope they make more kind of thing. I have mixed feelings about it, but mostly that's because I'm a DCC operator and I'm very picky about sound. I think most people will be pretty happy with the loco.

The good:

Nicely packaged. No damage.
Clever spot to hide switches behind magnetically held on rear door
Smooth running drive train
Scale wheels and couplers included
Plenty of volume
The horn is crisp and loud. Really nice.
Nice detail in the cab.
LED lighting features are very nice
The built in capacitor keeps the engine alive for several seconds after power is removed

The not so good (from my perspective):

The sound file doesn't sound like an EMD 16-567B to me. Or it is lacking a lot on the lower end. It doesn't "chug" like the real one.
There is an overall lack of bass frequencies. Could be the speaker or enclosure.
In typical MTH fashion it doesn't like to move at less than 2 scale mph. Compared to my LokSound decoders that will do 1/4-1/2 of 1 scale mph.
It acts weird and doesn't respond to function keys correctly all the time.
It says it supports DCC programming but programming CV 3 and 4 for acceleration and deceleration made no difference. Tried ops and prgm track.
No DCC socket to replace ProtoSounds electronics if desired

So I find myself in exactly the position I feared... I like the model, but I want to put a better decoder and speaker in it. To do that will require major surgery and hard wiring of a new decoder since MTH eliminated the universal socket that SHS used. This is a step in the wrong direction in my opinion. SHS was compatible with everything and the design was genius. MTH has now locked us into their design. Yes, it "supports" DCC commands, but anyone really into DCC likely won't be happy with it. Being able to change decoders easily is one of the main points to the DCC standard.

Those are my thoughts. It probably isn't that big of a deal for most, but I don't think it's what I'm looking for. I'll play with it some more before casting my final verdict.

6/26/178:50 PM

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TOKELLYOGR Forum Member

Jonathan, I understand your hesitation to quickly draw a final verdict. I ordered an unpowered Union Pacific F3 to make an ABA consist with S Helper Locomatic F3A and B units. I was not interested in installing another "operating system" to a DC, Locomatic, and Legacy roster that demands that I be very careful about whether AC or DC power gets sent to the appropriate locomotive. I understand that MTH wants to promote their proprietary system as does Lionel, but that means I'll choose only one. My choices are the quiet simplicity of DC, the primitive sounds of early Locomatic, or the features of Legacy because Lionel brought it to the S market far earlier than than MTH did theirs. There are too many locomotives and too little time and money to convert to DCC now.

The unpowered MTH F3 was a pleasant surprise. The yellow of the Union Pacific livery was darker and a bit browner than that of the SHS F3s, but it matched that applied to American Models' UP GP9 and GP35. The MTH fans turned freely, unlike those on the SHS equivalents. (I discovered this because one fan had become detached in shipping, requiring taking the body off the frame to reattach it.) The lighting options and capacitor storage are great features that Lionel does not add to its unpowered units. The rear door does not open for access to the power options as the SHS doors do. Magnets hold the MTH rear door--something that would have disappointed me if I hadn't once spent an entire afternoon trying to reinstall an SHS door that had popped off its hinges. MTH doors may not have the "cool" factor of opening doors, but they are far more practical.

The quality of the MTH model seems the equal of the SHS versions--a very high bar to reach. The unpowered version does not have sound or operating functions, so I cannot comment on those; but the lighting options offer a great deal of flexibility. The MTH F3 cab can follow or lead the SHS AB Locomatic units for an ABA consist merely by turning the headlight(s) on or off. Those lights stay on, as you noted, for about a minute or so when power is off or even reduced. That allows the LEDs to stay on even when a DC consist slows to a crawl and the voltage drops below 4.5 volts. The F3 is heavy and tracks American Models tracks and switches flawlessly either leading or trailing. I won't invest in DCS, and DCC is too expensive an option for my roster; but MTH's decision to offer unpowered locomotives and add lighting features worked out well in my case.

6/26/1711:10 PM

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Rusty TraqueOGR Forum Member

So far, I've only had a couple of concerns (other than the bad speaker in my Santa Fe 18, which MTH replaced under warranty,) with the Mars light.

The Mars light should be in the upper light housing, not the nose door
With the headlight and motor switches set for trailing unit operation, under DCC the headlight will turn off when running backwards, but the Mars light will turn on. It annoys the postal clerks in the RPO...
Under DCC, turning off the Mars light also turns off the number boards.

The location can be corrected by either swapping the LED's around or locating the plugs for the Mars and headlight and swapping them. I finally located the plugs on my 19C because the harness had more "give" than the harness in the 18. But, I had already swapped the LED's.

Armed with this new knowledge, as long as the 19C is pretty much destined to be the full time trailing unit, I simply unplugged the Mars light.

Also, while I had the units open, I toned down the cab lights with two layers of Teflon pipe tape over the LEDs so the crew doesn't get sunburned.

As far as MTH's DCC operation goes, I'm happy with it. I'm not one to go down into the weeds manipulating CV's to make the locomotives sing and dance. All I'm concerned with is smooth operation, forward, reverse, proper operation of lights and toot, ding, rumble (or choo) if sound equipped. My UP and CB&Q SHS F3's have only Lenz JST Gold decoders I installed and I'm happy with those. I still have to install decoders in my SHS F7's one of these days.

As I mentioned in another post, because of the long delivery delay, oddball release of the Santa Fes's and sound problem in one unit, my enthusiasm is somewhat muted, but I'm reasonably satisfied with my MTH F3's.

Rusty

6/27/177:27 AM

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jonnyspeedOGR Forum Member

I did a speaker swap on the MTH F3 tonight. I installed a Tang Band T1-1925S which is the big brother to the model I installed in the SW1 a while back. MTH did a horrible job mounting the speaker. ALL of the sound goes through the rear "fan" on the shell. I reused the speaker plug so the install was super easy. It fit like a glove with no issues or modification necessary. So that's the good news... The bad news is that the new speaker made no difference at all. The only explanation for this is that the MTH recording does not include the lower frequencies because the speaker is certainly capable of producing them. I was already disappointed with the changes that MTH made so this really doesn't make me want to purchase more MTH reruns.

7/15/179:30 PM

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Rusty TraqueOGR Forum Member

For the record, MTH mounted the speaker the same way SHS mounted the speaker. The only real difference is SHS used spring contacts instead of a plug for the speaker.

Rusty

7/16/1711:01 AM

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jonnyspeedOGR Forum Member

I haven't had an SHS F unit for a while. I didn't remember it mounted that way. Regardless, the sound files is the limitation so changing the speaker won't make a difference. Basically, if you are happy the way they come then you are fine. If you aren't, then...

7/17/171:43 PM

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jonnyspeedOGR Forum Member

A picture is worth a thousand words... These plots were captured at idle for each model. The PS3 sound file in the S scale F3 is inferior to the LokSound decoder in the lower frequency range. Not even close.

MTH PS3 EMD 567 with Tang Band speaker: