Hot Water,
You noted that many pieces of your rolling stock is equipped with 2 Rail Scale wheels. Out of curiosity what type of track due you use that would be conducive to using scale wheels and 3 rail track?
Thanks!
Jack,
It's all about having fun, man.
I'm just teasing you. I enjoy your expertise and I've learned much from you.
Hope to shake hands some day.
Eliot
Allegheny posted:Hot Water,
You noted that many pieces of your rolling stock is equipped with 2 Rail Scale wheels. Out of curiosity what type of track due you use that would be conducive to using scale wheels and 3 rail track?
Thanks!
We have Atlas solid nickel silver track and I have modified all the guardrails on the turnouts with added styrene shims, so that the guardrails are now as high as the running rails. The 2-Rail wheels seem to like that much better when backing thru a turnout.
Interesting, I have two Lionel Y6b's and have to agree that due to price, I have leaned toward the toy version. I applaud the scale crowd and attention to detail. To me, its important that a model host a certain aspect of the original locomotive. I cannot tell you how may times my stomach turns when I see an EM1 with Northern Pacific on the tender to pass for a Yellowstone Z-5 ... almost insults history and my intelligence at the same time. 
However, upon the addition of technology to animate with better sound and effects and the trade offs that come with - in... if its kept in check with the right look ... than bring it on. It helps with the illusion of being track side...
Why the original OP selected 3 rail models to appeal to the 2 rail crowd may be the root of the problem...?
Interesting that maybe some 3 rail models have approach the approval of the more scrutinized crowd?
I was reading an article about a person 2 railing the Lionel Acela. His comments quote "The most accurate model of the Acela ever released to date".
J Daddy posted:I was reading an article about a person 2 railing the Lionel Acela. His comments quote "The most accurate model of the Acela ever released to date".
Is there more than one?
J POP:
"Interesting that maybe some 3 rail models have approach the approval of the more scrutinized crowd?
Interesting, maybe, but not really surprising. Technology along with current manufacturing practices makes this a true statement in more and more cases, not all.
Come to the O Scale Chicago show and you will see a lot of orange, blue and some purple boxes for sale. Most converted to two rail, some not. But the fact is, and it’s been said before, the two rail guys are benefitting from the 3 rail manufactured products and the 3 rail guys are starting to appreciate the scale, two rail thought process. It really is a win/win for both disciplines.
Charlie
Charlie posted:J POP:
"Interesting that maybe some 3 rail models have approach the approval of the more scrutinized crowd?
Interesting, maybe, but not really surprising. Technology along with current manufacturing practices makes this a true statement in more and more cases, not all.
Come to the O Scale Chicago show and you will see a lot of orange, blue and some purple boxes for sale. Most converted to two rail, some not. But the fact is, and it’s been said before, the two rail guys are benefitting from the 3 rail manufactured products and the 3 rail guys are starting to appreciate the scale, two rail thought process. It really is a win/win for both disciplines.
Charlie
I come from modeling 20 years in HO scale. My last layout was a mushroom design with Northern Pacific as my prototype from Livingston to Helena to Butte Montana. I remember driving through and photographing almost every pass, and every town... I do miss the accuracy of 2 rail, and the brass models of HO, but I made the dive into 3 rail when it came down to my eye-sight, my natural section due to cost and availability, was 3 rail.
Joining a great round robin club with a great bunch of guys pretty much sealed the deal.
I always chuckle a little when people tell me that Lionel and MTH make great scale models.
Well lets just say some of their models get the right "aspect" of the prototype... and I can deal with that.
Hot Water posted:Besides, on a nice warm/hot day, the real steam vapor exiting from the whistle usually can't be seen anyway.
You know HW, sometimes I wonder why you make such stupid statements!
Filmed May 30, 2015
Fimed July 3, 2015
Big Jim posted:Hot Water posted:Besides, on a nice warm/hot day, the real steam vapor exiting from the whistle usually can't be seen anyway.You know HW, sometimes I wonder why you make such stupid statements!
Guess I'm just used to steam locomotives that use superheated steam to blow the whistle.
You cannot see steam, it is invisible. As soon as it exits the whistle and or cylinders, it condenses into tiny water droplets. It is actually a mist. That mist is visible, as it scatters light in all directions and without any preference to color. So that is the white you are seeing. Same thing in all those photos of exhaust from a coal power plant. Those voluminous white clouds are just condensing water.
The hotter the exiting steam, the longer it takes to cool. Also the hotter it is, the more rapidly it expands. So when it does cool, the density of droplets is lower, and the white is less prominent.
Also, as should be obvious, the hotter the outside air, the more the steam can expand before it cools. Again lowering the density of water droplets, and again making it less prominent
The colder the outside air, the faster the condensation and the higher the denisty of water mist. Which is why photos of steam engines in winter are more spectacular.
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion on 2 rail vs 3 rail vs sound vs prototype fidelity vs high rail vs 3 rail scale vs whatever else.
John Sethian posted:You cannot see steam, it is invisible. As soon as it exits the whistle and or cylinders, it condenses into tiny water droplets. It is actually a mist. That mist is visible, as it scatters light in all directions and without any preference to color. So that is the white you are seeing. Same thing in all those photos of exhaust from a coal power plant. Those voluminous white clouds are just condensing water.
The hotter the exiting steam, the longer it takes to cool. Also the hotter it is, the more rapidly it expands. So when it does cool, the density of droplets is lower, and the white is less prominent.
Also, as should be obvious, the hotter the outside air, the more the steam can expand before it cools. Again lowering the density of water droplets, and again making it less prominent
The colder the outside air, the faster the condensation and the higher the denisty of water mist. Which is why photos of steam engines in winter are more spectacular.
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion on 2 rail vs 3 rail vs sound vs prototype fidelity vs high rail vs 3 rail scale vs whatever else.
Stay tuned, boys and girls!
Later tonight John will derive the elliptical motion of the planets about the sun using nothing more than a piece of chalk, a black board, and basic geometry.
"Stay tuned, boys and girls!
Later tonight John will derive the elliptical motion of the planets about the sun using nothing more than a piece of chalk, a black board, and basic geometry."
No thanks, this fish is going back to the pond... the sharks are too big here.
Later tonight John will derive the elliptical motion of the planets about the sun using nothing more than a piece of chalk, a black board, and basic geometry.
no need for them complicated tools, just follow the elliptic. the planets and Mr. Moon will be there. except for poor 'ol Pluto, the deviant orbiter.
PRR Man posted:Later tonight John will derive the elliptical motion of the planets about the sun using nothing more than a piece of chalk, a black board, and basic geometry.
no need for them complicated tools, just follow the elliptic. the planets and Mr. Moon will be there. except for poor 'ol Pluto, the deviant orbiter.
John will also of course cover on the back of a common envelope:
- An overview of some geometric properties of an ellipse
- Newton's demonstration that equal areas in equal times is equivalent to forces toward the sun
- demonstrate that equal changes in velocity occur in equal angles in the orbit
- demonstrate these velocity changes imply that the orbit is elliptical
- and then discuss Rutherford's experiments with scattering of alpha particles and the discovery of the atomic nucleus.....
J Daddy posted:"Stay tuned, boys and girls!
Later tonight John will derive the elliptical motion of the planets about the sun using nothing more than a piece of chalk, a black board, and basic geometry."
No thanks, this fish is going back to the pond... the sharks are too big here.
I'm going back to something with a little more social redeeming value, like, Dancing With The Stars. Edyta is orbiting out there somewhere!
mwb posted:Simon Winter posted:My OPINION is that anyone (2r or 3r) who wants to sit around and suck up "smoke" is not the sharpest tack in the box, and ranting about 2r vs 3r is a waste of time. Besides, any of you 3 railers who were really serious would go 3R P48. (I'm just KIDDING gang!)
Simon
Yes, cubed. And, I have yet to see any smoke effect from any model come close to looking like anything prototypical regardless of the number of rails.
I don't care about any of the "special effects" that are offered (waste of money) and in the very rare instances where I'm actually buying an engine new, I'm looking for absolute accuracy of the model as representing the prototype and all of the specific dimensions and details in place where they belong. Everything else is at best secondary or irrelevant.
With that logic, you should do yourself a favor and dump all your models. Real life rivets are not miniature round domes ... the horror! Lol
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What was the question?
Don
DGJONES posted:What was the question?
Don
What do you get when you multiply six by nine?
PJB posted:Hot Water - yes, but that's a personal like/dislike - and you're entitled to it - but has nothing to do with whether a given model is more or less prototypical.
I'm not going to go back and re-read everything Hot Water said, but I take exception to your comments that I don't think it's prototypical, never said anything about it being prototypical or not.
My reasoning is:
1) More things to get broken
2) Harder to repair. I recently went over GGGs house to drop off/pick up some things and he was in the middle of re-wiring a large engine, said he was having problems getting the wiring harness snaked into the boiler. So now not only does the repair tech have to be an electronics expert he also has to be a plumber as I'm sure some of that smoke tubing has to be removed to get things apart or at least gets in the way when making repairs.
Things stand a better chance of breaking every time they're taken apart and put back together. If any of the tubing used for smoke has to be taken apart, how many times can it happen before something breaks?
3) Drives the prices of this stuff even higher than they already are, I don't like payingfor something I don't want
4) I lost my sense of smell 10+ years ago, what I smell as smoke isn't what the rest of you smell, that's why I don't like smoke
And please don't insult any of us by saying "Well they're just toys". That phrase should have been stricken from this forum, once the price of these things went over $200.
I got into O scale because I wanted a simpler experience than what HO had been for me, but with certain things (like handheld remote control). If I wanted toys I'd be collecting boxcars with a giraffe head bobbing up and down.
So...take it back
