N&W 611 route to Strasburg

Almost all the answers you want are HERE.

There is essentially only one route from Roanoke to the Strasburg Railroad. Northeast out of Roanoke via Winchester,  Hagerstown, Harrisburg, Lancaster and Leaman Place where they interchange with the Strasburg. They will not publicize the deadhead dates.

I don't think any main line steam locomotive has had PTC equipment installed yet. There is still discussion going on with the FRA as to the interpretation of the PTC rules as they pertain to steam locomotives. It is very likely that a PTC-equipped diesel will be in the lead on the deadhead move.

There would be no need for "...a possible spin on the turntable..." in Harrisburg. She will already be facing the right direction, plus there are wyes on each end of the Rockville Bridge. If they do need to turn the engine for some reason, a wye is a LOT quicker, easier and safer to use than a turntable.

One small correction - the Valley Line doesn't go through Winchester. And I would assume she's been cleared to cross all the trestles(?) If so, she will be the first J to ever travel north of Shenandoah.

No Winchester, eh? I guess I should have put my glasses on when I looked at the map.

As for the bridge clearances, I haven't a clue about that.

Rich, 

The NS H-line (Shenandoah Valley Line) passes about 15 miles east of Winchester through Berryville.

CSX has a former B&O Route that runs From Harper’s Ferry into Winchester that crosses NS at a diamond in Charlestown. CSX continues south toward Strasburg, Va (VA not PA!) where it meets with the NS B-line (former Southern railway), with the B-Line crossing the H-line at Riverton Junction at Front Royal, VA. 

The Winchester & Western (recently sold) also comes down to Winchester from Hagerstown on an old PRR line.  

To the original poster’s comments - there are 2 possible routes from Roanoke to Front Royal, VA - while from Front Royal to Harrisburg is essentially the same:

1) H-line direct from Roanoke to Front Royal/Riverton Junction (Former N&W Shenandoah Valley line): This route would be the shortest and is via Shenandoah and Waynesboro. However, I’ve heard from some folks I respect that either the axle loading or clearances with a J are a problem on this line, but I’m not 100% certain. The N&W never operated Js on this line to the best of my knowledge  - instead they used K2 and K2a Class 4-8-2s - And I have never seen a photo of a J on this line either in regular or excursion service except for turning at Riverton Junction. But I have heard of some excursion trips that went up part of the line, as well as NKP 759 operating this line in 1971. Conversely though, today’s six axle locomotives are tipping the scales at up to 265 tons and they are used regularly on this line. The line is relatively light traffic with 2 intermodals (201/202), 2 Mixed freights (15T/16T), empty coal trains as needed, a few locals out of Roanke and Shenandoah, and the occasional chicken feed train to Harrisonburg via Shenandoah. Crew availability might be an issue. 

If 611 were to run up this way, a photograph at Solitude and natural bridge would be absolutely amazing.

2) N-line (former N&W mainline) to Lynchburg, Take the Wye at Kinney Yard to the Wye at Montview yard and on to Southern Main, passing through Kemper Street and over the James River Viaduct. Northward through Charlottesville (maybe pausing to say hi to Wick) and taking the B-line at Manassas west to Riverton Junction where they would go north on the H-line towards Hagerstown.   It may sound odd to Route them this way but there is generally good crew availability on the Southern side and 611 has run this route many many times on ferry and excursion trips. It’s also the route Amtrak takes from Roanoke except for the B-line portion of course. 

North of Riverton Junction it will be the H-line to Hagerstown, old PRR to the Lurgan branch to Harrisburg, take the Wye at CP Capital north past Harris tower up to and crossing over Rockville Viaduct heading west, turn south through Enola yard and along the Port Road across Shocks Mill Viaduct to Columbia, Pa where they’ll get on the Dillerville Secondary at CP Cola and run up to Dillerville Yard (Now the Craig Lewis Yard) at Lancaster, PA. Wait at CP Cork to get on Amtrak and then over to Paradise for the interchange.  This route avoids all the high level platforms on Amtrak as well. 

For the return trip, they will have to go reverse or be towed to enola and spun on the turntable there to be facing forward for the rest of the journey.  

My apologies for the lengthy post. 

Excellent post. I would like to add a couple things. As far as us "locals" are aware, there has been one documented move of a J to Shenandoah. I don't know details, but I believe it was a test and was never repeated. Second, a Roanoke/Lynchburg/Manassasas/Riverton/Hagerstown routing would get around all the trestles EXCEPT Shepherdstown. Would still have to cross that one. Will be interesting to see how this will pan out.

Dave Albright posted:

 As far as us "locals" are aware, there has been one documented move of a J to Shenandoah. I don't know details, but I believe it was a test and was never repeated. 

It is my understanding that the K2a for that run had problems and the only loco left to take its place was a J, #606, I believe. It was taken off at Shenandoah.

I've seen and ridden behind 611 many times over the years and plan to see it again at Strasburg.  Our good fortune is that it will be there on the same weekend as the October 12th Eastern PA 2 rail O scale Train Show held at the Strasburg firehouse.  With 611 in town I expect that show will have record attendance.  Several questions :

Will 611 move under steam to Strasburg or being towed dead?

If 611 is moving under steam will it be accompanies by a diesel?

If with a diesel and under steam will 611be on the point?

With no ticketed passengers riding behind her on the run from Roanoke to Strasburg issues associated with not having passenger liability insurance (through Amtrak) may be partially mitigated.

Keystoned Ed posted:

I've seen and ridden behind 611 many times over the years and plan to see it again at Strasburg.  Our good fortune is that it will be there on the same weekend as the October 12th Eastern PA 2 rail O scale Train Show held at the Strasburg firehouse.  With 611 in town I expect that show will have record attendance.  Several questions :

Will 611 move under steam to Strasburg or being towed dead?

It must be under steam, as that is the only way the valves and pistons receive lubrication, i.e. from the valve oil sprayed into the steam flow.

If 611 is moving under steam will it be accompanies by a diesel?

Most likely, as I do not think that 611 has had PTC equipment installed.

If with a diesel and under steam will 611be on the point?

Probably not, as the diesel with PTC must be "controlling" and in the lead.

With no ticketed passengers riding behind her on the run from Roanoke to Strasburg issues associated with not having passenger liability insurance (through Amtrak) may be partially mitigated.

Norfolk Souther does not provide liability insurance either, thus no "passengers" at all. There may be "invited guests", however.

I believe the annual inspection is being done at Strasburg this month.

David

Big Jim posted:

Dave Albright posted:

 As far as us "locals" are aware, there has been one documented move of a J to Shenandoah. I don't know details, but I believe it was a test and was never repeated. 

It is my understanding that the K2a for that run had problems and the only loco left to take its place was a J, #606, I believe. It was taken off at Shenandoah.

That would make sense. Thank you!

NKP Muncie posted:

I believe the annual inspection is being done at Strasburg this month.

David

This month? You mean next month when she comes up?

NS6770Fan posted:

NKP Muncie posted:

I believe the annual inspection is being done at Strasburg this month.

David

This month? You mean next month when she comes up?

No he means this month - there is a firing up Event on August 17th at the VMT.  

“The Virginia Museum of Transportation announces The FIRE-UP 611 Experience: Fire-Up 611 Program for August 17^th in preparation of the departure of the N&W Class J 611 for the Strasburg Rail Road, Strasburg, PA.  “A Reunion of Steam” September – October 2019. “

Link: https://www.showclix.com/event...-august-17th/listing

Only tangentially related to this discussion, but I remembered a strange entry on page 327 of a Penn Central Eastern Region Employee Timetable #5, in effect 4:01 A.M. Sunday , May 17, 1970.

Under "Speeds" for the Harrisburg Division, Winchester Secondary Track are the following entries:

 N&WRR Class J engines or PM Passenger cars:

 Bridge 82.13 south of Williamsport -----15

 Bridge 92.56 north of Martinsburg ----- 20"

I suppose this was a carryover that was never edited out from PRR timetables from the steam era.

I can't think of any other reason it would be in a 1970 PC Timetable.

Also, was there a reason why N&W Js would have been cleared to operate on the PRR's Winchester Secondary?

Somewhere in another Penn Central document I recall reading something about N&WRR Class J engines being prohibited from turning on the Hagerstown wye, but I'll be darned if I can find it right now.

I'm also curious about the "PM Passenger Cars". I wonder if that means Pere Marquette or if PM is a class designation or what?

Is the reason why no mainline excursions in 2018 and 2019 is because neither NS or Amtrak want to provide liability insurance coverage? Are Squires and Anderson against public excursions? Last year Amtrak banned most excursions. At least we had Wick for a while who supported them. Can steam excursions or even diesel excursions work on a railroad with PSR? The whole point of PSR is to cut costs and excursions cost money.

Wicked. I still have to figure out my time tables to make sure I get up, get breakfast and get over to Strasburg on time Friday morning from York.

Nick Chillianis posted:

Only tangentially related to this discussion, but I remembered a strange entry on page 327 of a Penn Central Eastern Region Employee Timetable #5, in effect 4:01 A.M. Sunday , May 17, 1970.

Under "Speeds" for the Harrisburg Division, Winchester Secondary Track are the following entries:

 N&WRR Class J engines or PM Passenger cars:

 Bridge 82.13 south of Williamsport -----15

 Bridge 92.56 north of Martinsburg ----- 20"

I suppose this was a carryover that was never edited out from PRR timetables from the steam era.

 

Good Catch, Nick.  Who would have imagined . . . ?

I’m assuming the locomotive will leave either the 18th or 19th after the Fireup? Also, is there a high chance of the locomotive going up through Hagerstown and through Greencastle Area? I believe I have one of the lines mapped out that runs from Hagerstown to Lemoyne area. I will post the link to the line and see if it is one of the possible lines.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/...71274999998&z=10

New Link

According to the 611 website, it appears that the 611 has departed Roanoke a little after 8AM. 

Facebook posting announces departure but no route mentioned.  #NS955

Should be around Natural Bridge, Va as of 9:55am EST. NS 9214 leading (Dash 9, clean paint)

Will overnight at Enola Yard. Enola-Columbia-Dillerville/Lancaster - Paradise tomorrow. 

Thanks guys! I am hoping to catch it up by Lemoyne or Enola tonight if I can. Does anyone have an estimate to about what time she should be getting to Enola? Also, will she head across the Susquehanna at the Rockville-bridge, or the bridge to the south? 

NS6770Fan posted:

will she head across the Susquehanna at the Rockville-bridge, or the bridge to the south? 

First one - then the other 

Hey all,

I am in Northern VA.  I am hoping she is set to come through Manassas on the B-Line.  if anyone has any input on if that will happen and when, I would be much appreciative.  I am at work now, but I am hoping to see her later.  Fingers crossed.

Hi Carl - she will not be coming through Manassas or on the B-line at all. She is coming up the H-line now via Waynesboro, Shenandoah and Luray, approaching Front Royal from the geographic southwest. She’ll continue up the H-line from Riverton Junction to Hagerstown and on to Harrisburg via the Lurgan. 

Darn.  I won’t be able to make it out there today.  Oh well, I will see her in Strasburg in October.

Thanks for the info M J.

M J, are you in contact with someone on the team? Or are you following the locomotive up?

This is "old information" but at 11:15AM, Eastern Time, the ferry move was stopped at Buena Vista, VA, account trouble with the freight train ahead.

Do you happen to know when it might arrive at the Strasburg interchange?  Maybe I can make some time to catch it on the steaming site on YouTube. 

Thank you. 

Carl Peduzzi posted:

Do you happen to know when it might arrive at the Strasburg interchange?

I have no idea, as we live in the western suburbs of Chicago. I was just relating what was reported on Trainorders.com  on the "Steam and Excursion forum.

 Maybe I can make some time to catch it on the steaming site on YouTube. 

Thank you. 

Cool.  Thanks for the help MJ.

Latest up-date just posted on Trainorders.com has the ferry move special still stopped at Buena Vista, VA as of 1:27 PM eastern time. Two freight trains reportedly are having problems ahead of the 611 consist.

In addition to Jack’s update; word on Virtual Railfan is the revised plan is to overnight in Hagerstown tonight rather than Enola.

Curt

Any updates? Is she still in Buena Vista or is she on the move?

Still at BV 

Wow, going nowhere fast.

Last I read on Trainorders.com was, still stuck at Buena Vista as of 4:30 PM eastern. A new crew is reportedly called for 6:15 PM.

juniata guy posted:

In addition to Jack’s update; word on Virtual Railfan is the revised plan is to overnight in Hagerstown tonight rather than Enola.

Curt

Another up-date, reported on Trainorders.com  now scheduled to over-night in Shenandoah.  

Apparently Precision Scheduled Railroading isn't working too well on that line.

I was there today, and here's what happened: a southbound broke a coupler knuckle (on or near the locomotive, I heard) roughly halfway between Vesuvius and Buena Vista, VA.  That trapped another southbound in Vesuvius, fouling state Rt. 56 (where Link took his shot with the general store, gas pump, car, and passing streamlined K).  611's train (or should I say the train that included 611), waiting in Buena Vista for the others to clear, became trapped and is still there according to other posts.  It sounds like they'll be lucky if they make it to Shenandoah tonight, but anybody who can be there should be rewarded with some nice photos, as the town is in a very scenic setting.  The route from there to Front Royal is packed with high trestles - wish I could be there tomorrow.