SOLVED - Need a Chemist - Or someone familiar with Tru-Color Paint

It not compatible with those products. Its a solvent paint and needs to be thinned. You can use their thinner ($$$$$) or try slow or medium drying lacquer thinner. They mention acetone but don't use that for thinner as it dries way to fast and won't flow. I use about 1/3 thinner 2/3 paint with either their thinner or lacquer thinner.

Pete

Tru-Color recommends straight acetone to clean your airbrush.  Like Pete says, the solvents in Tru-Color are not compatible with alcohol or the Vallejo cleaner.

I’ve shot tru color through an Iwata gun, .....I had to cut it darn near 50/50 to get it to flow out wet, .....also had to REDUCE air pressure, not increase it,.....it’s not likely reacting to anything you’re cleaning the gun out with, as long as sits good and dry before filling the gun with your color......I paint for a living, and TBT, I’m not really impressed with their product line, ......sounds like what you got going on is the paint is trying to dry before it ever leaves the gun, and the pigments are collecting at the tip, ....where is the clog happening will tell the story, .....right at the atomizing point?.....if so, then the paint is trying to dry before leaving the gun, slightly reduce pressure ( not stupid crazy ) and reduce further, ......might take a couple experiments with your equipment, I’ve never used a Vallejo gun, .....I’ve been an Iwata guy since diapers,....😉....everything up to my HVLP is Iwata....hope that helps, lemme know if you need more help,...

Pat

Ron, try what the others mentioned first, try Acetone to clean the gun, then attempt a reduced mixture, .....maybe some ISO or Vallejo cleaner is lingering in your gun with out you knowing,....

Pat

Thanks all... Off tho Hobby Lobby tomorrow for some Acetone.

Maybe a new airbrush too if I can find. 40% off coupon.

Will update with results.

Ron

😁😁😁😆😆 Iwatta Eclipse or Iwatta Evolution 😁😁😁😁😁

but, ...you might go 😳😬 when you see the $$$....NEO’s are nice, but mostly for beginners, and I’ve seen you post up more paint projects than I have this year, so I’d think you’re beyond that stage!,..😉

Pat

@Ron045 posted:

This time I used TCP-078 and 5 drops of TCP-015 Thinner.  Same result, immediate clog.

Ron, I use Tru-Color almost for all my work now, Tamiya is the other paint I use from time to time.

I have never been able to spray from the bottle (Badger Krome with .03 Needle) is my set-up for most jobs. If your needle is in this range, you will need to thin and you are using the correct thinner. Don't use Acetone except to clean.

I no longer measure the drops, but rather go by sight. After you shoot enough, you will probably get to the same level of confidence. It is ALMOST impossible to thin Tru-Color paint too much, and if you do, just let is sit in the mixing cup for a while and the thinner will evaporate. Some people say thin to the consistency of milk if that helps. It really is best sprayed pretty thin and in my opinion covers pretty well. Some colors like yellow need a third or fourth coat to get a deep saturation.

If you are using a brush with a .5 or even a .7, you will not need to thin as much.

The nice thin about the paint is I don't think I have ever had a run. I did try on a piece of scrap plastic and got it to run, but on an actual model, very hard.

Finish is ready for tape or decal in a very short time.

Lastly, if you are still getting tip-dry, try to bring down your air pressure and see if that helps, if not, you may need to add some retarder.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

@Norton posted:

It not compatible with those products. Its a solvent paint and needs to be thinned. You can use their thinner ($$$$$) or try slow or medium drying lacquer thinner. They mention acetone but don't use that for thinner as it dries way to fast and won't flow. I use about 1/3 thinner 2/3 paint with either their thinner or lacquer thinner.

Pete

This is my experience as well. I can't remember, although it's been explained here before, how Tru-Color paints are formulated but they react very badly to other suppliers' thinners/cleaners. That said, their own thinner helps produce great results if you get the air pressure setting right, which I have done by trial and error. Yeah, their proprietary thinner is costly compared to other products but I've found that the results are worth it.

I use acetone or lacquer thinner only to clean my airbrush.

BTW while I am not a chemist I used to work with them. The compounds for Tru Color thinner are listed on the bottle. I had some Klean Strip medium dry lacquer thinner analyzed by one of them and found it had about 75% of the same compounds in it. Most likely not in the same proportions but close enough for me. I have been using Tru Color for about 4 years now and have been getting satisfactory results using lacquer thinner which is the one most commonly found in home and hardware stores.
Best experiment with both until you find a mix that works best for you and your airbrush.

Pete

The one thing no one has said yet, is what air pressure you are using?

I have used Tru-Color Paint lately and also find that I have to experiment with different portions of thinner to paint. Then I have to adjust the air pressure. With Floquil and Scale Coat, I would paint between 22 to 35 PSI, depending on my needle size and what I was painting. With TCP, I almost always had to be 35 to 40 PSI.

I would be interested it knowing what others say about PSI and TCP.

RAY

@Ray of sunshine posted:

I almost always had to be 35 to 40 PSI.

I would be interested it knowing what others say about PSI and TCP.

RAY

Hey Ray:

With my set-up, I had just the opposite requirement you did with the PSI.

My air regulator is NOT calibrated so please understand that the numbers I post here are only for my system.

My starting point is between 15 and 20 psi with Tru-Color paint. Again, this is with a airbrush with a .03 needle which will make a difference if you use a airbrush with a larger (.05 ~ .07) needle.

I found out rather quickly that when I switched to Tru-Color and was using my former PSI of about 30, I was getting Tip-Dry. I started thinning and lowering my PSI until I started getting a "wet" layer... without sputtering. It was a learning curve for sure.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

I had to do the same as Charlie, .....I didn’t experience what the OP went through with a total clog, ...what I had was “dry tip” where the material was building up on the tip and the atomizer so badly it was affecting the pattern, ......different guns and different regs will result in different pressures, ....I was down to 14 PSI to get it to flow, ....also as others mentioned, the material does have high hide qualities, sans the usual suspect colors, I just found the circus of mixing a good cocktail and figuring air pressures for each batch a PITA from what I’m used to with Floquil, or the others.....

Pat

Acetone was the answer.  I cleaned the airbrush with it tonight.  Then I thinned the paint a bunch with TCP-015 thinner, almost filling the bottle of green to the top.

It worked great.  After the first coat, I could tell the paint was coming out a little slower.  So I stopped, cleaned the airbrush with Acetone and shot a second coat.  I'm happy with the results.  I also like how the paint dries so fast that the item can be rotated or flipped.

I did see the Iwatta Eclipse in Hobby Lobby today for $149.  I don't know if the 40% coupon would be valid or not, but I did not think it would be right to buy myself something three days before Christmas.  Maybe in the new year.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and feedback.  You really helped me a bunch.

Have Fun!

Ron

@Ron045 posted:

Acetone was the answer.  I cleaned the airbrush with it tonight.  Then I thinned the paint a bunch with TCP-015 thinner, almost filling the bottle of green to the top.

It worked great.  After the first coat, I could tell the paint was coming out a little slower.  So I stopped, cleaned the airbrush with Acetone and shot a second coat.  I'm happy with the results.  I also like how the paint dries so fast that the item can be rotated or flipped.

I did see the Iwatta Eclipse in Hobby Lobby today for $149.  I don't know if the 40% coupon would be valid or not, but I did not think it would be right to buy myself something three days before Christmas.  Maybe in the new year.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and feedback.  You really helped me a bunch.

Have Fun!

Ron

Hey Ron: So... a little more constructive feedback.

While you got tot he result that pleased you, I think, based on the image you shot, it looks like the paint is still drying a tad too quickly. If your paint is the correct consistency, then I would back off the air pressure (PSI) a little more and slow down the paint delivery... or move the airbrush at a slightly slower sweep. It might not be important for this project, but it might be an issue at a later date when you want to apply decals. The finish you are looking for is gloss, unless you have one of the Tru color Matte paints.

Regardless, spray should go on wet and with overlapping coverage. You might want to get a scrap piece of plastic and keep experimenting until you get the glossy and even results you are looking for.

Thanks for posting Ron as I'm sure there are more people with the same questions you presented here. I was in your place not too long ago and others helped me.

Lastly, don't mix the thinner into the paint bottle, yes it works, but it is a waste of money. Add the paint to a paper Dixie type cup, not plastic, then add the thinner to the proper consistency. Paint what you need then dump the unused paint back into the original paint jar. Ask me I found out not to use a plastic cup...

Hope this helps.

Charlie

@Charlie, that is a matte finish color he used,....it’s REA green,....personally I think he nailed it!....result!....Ron’s got my vote!....nice work Ron!...

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

@Charlie, that is a matte finish color he used,....it’s REA green,....personally I think he nailed it!....result!....Ron’s got my vote!....nice work Ron!...

Pat

No problem, I thought this was the gloss version of the REA green, but I do know that there are some Matte paints.

I do like the finish also, but if you happen to have a gloss paint and it is ending up dull, then that is usually indicative of drying too fast.

The end result that you are happy with is all that counts.

Charlie

Happy Holidays Everyone  I sent a PRR F-3 B- Unit shell to be painted in UP yellow but when I got it back the yellow was so much lighter than the Lionel yellow the Locos are painted in and the lettering is to small. The Locomotives I'm trying to match are the 6-24552 UP F3 ABA set from 2005 and they are the same yellow color as my 6-18149 UP Veranda from 1998. I spoke to the painter and he is going to repaint the shell for me but I'm unsure of where to get the UP yellow to match the Lionel yellow. I'm using the Scalecoat 2032 Harbor Mist grey for the trim pieces and roof and diaphragms and it is very close but the 2022 Scalecoat UP yellow is not a good match. Does anyone have any idea where I can get some yellow paint to match the Lionel Yellow so it can be repainted? Thanks

.

@Charlie posted:

No problem, I thought this was the gloss version of the REA green, but I do know that there are some Matte paints.

I do like the finish also, but if you happen to have a gloss paint and it is ending up dull, then that is usually indicative of drying too fast.

The end result that you are happy with is all that counts.

Charlie

Quite correct Charlie, ....if you’re spraying a gloss finish, and it comes out dull, ....that’s a total do over!...and I hate undo-redo,.....I just assume take a beating than paint something twice!,..and another thing you’re correct on, is applying a gloss in a “wet” coat, ....if you want that shine, you almost have to pucker up and put er on wet,.....😉

Pat

@Gary Marsh posted:

Happy Holidays Everyone  I sent a PRR F-3 B- Unit shell to be painted in UP yellow but when I got it back the yellow was so much lighter than the Lionel yellow the Locos are painted in and the lettering is to small. The Locomotives I'm trying to match are the 6-24552 UP F3 ABA set from 2005 and they are the same yellow color as my 6-18149 UP Veranda from 1998. I spoke to the painter and he is going to repaint the shell for me but I'm unsure of where to get the UP yellow to match the Lionel yellow. I'm using the Scalecoat 2032 Harbor Mist grey for the trim pieces and roof and diaphragms and it is very close but the 2022 Scalecoat UP yellow is not a good match. Does anyone have any idea where I can get some yellow paint to match the Lionel Yellow so it can be repainted? Thanks

.

Gary, ....yeah that’s a just a tad off, ......dead on matching a factory finish in our world is very tough to do, I highly doubt you’ll find a pre-packaged color that’ll be a dead on match. .....I did notice on Tru-Color’s web site they offered custom painting services , perhaps contact them with your dilemma, ......a good custom painter can “cocktail “ a color that’ll get you closer than what you are now,.....

Pat

@harmonyards and @Charlie

I just assumed it was flat due to the way it dried.  It does not say on the bottle what type of finish.

These accessory pieces won't get decals, but the main model will get a gloss coat prior to decals.  Then I will re-assemble and give a final coat of Tamiya Semi Gloss Clear X-35.

Do you see any issues with using Tamiya clear over the top of Tru Color REA Green?  It won't crackle will it? 

Thank You for the help.

Ron

@Ron045 posted:

@harmonyards and @Charlie

I just assumed it was flat due to the way it dried.  It does not say on the bottle what type of finish.

These accessory pieces won't get decals, but the main model will get a gloss coat prior to decals.  Then I will re-assemble and give a final coat of Tamiya Semi Gloss Clear X-35.

Do you see any issues with using Tamiya clear over the top of Tru Color REA Green?  It won't crackle will it?

Thank You for the help.

Ron

You’d better test that theory on some scrap Ron, ....I haven’t a clue, ....I’ve never tried to put Tamiya clear over top Tru-color,....all my decal work is done in laser thin vinyl, so it’s right off to a matte finish for me,.....I avoid water slide like the plague,.....90% of my work is done in urethanes anyways, ......so I stick in the urethane family,....you’re asking the right questions though, to avoid a disaster!..😉

Pat

@Gary Marsh posted:

Does anyone have any idea where I can get some yellow paint to match the Lionel Yellow so it can be repainted? Thanks

Gary, as Pat mentions above, this is a tough job.

I know we might be getting a bit off topic from the OP question, but it is a good one.

Short answer, we (general forum members) do not have paint data on at the manufacturing level. Jonathan (GG14877) who works with Sunset 3rd Rail probably knows what paint Sunset uses, but that might be all the information we can get on this forum.

So, short of someone actually knowing the paint, you will have to test and/or custom mix your own paint.

Long answer... even with the same paint, some colors like yellow, can yield different results by two different painters.

What was the base color? Light, medium or dark primer... all will have a subtle effect on the finished result

Is there an overcoat used? If yes, Glossy, Satin and Flat will make the paint look Darker with Gloss, a bit lighter with Satin and lighter even with Flat. That is why it is important to get the base coat on correctly. Its sounds a lot harder than in reality. A little bit of practice goes a long way and does not cost much.

Actually, I just finish a project of painting some die-cast cars for a friend and with the same paint, I was getting different results. I could not remember how many coats I had put down and I was getting a slightly different saturation. Yes, I could always spray on more paint, but then small details start to look blocked up, plus he wanted a very gloss overcoat which will make the paint look even more thick.

One option you can try (and I have not done this) is to take the shell off and do a little scrapping on the underside to see if there is any primer and if so, what was the color. That might help to at least get some idea of how Lionel applied the paint in this case.

Good luck.

Charlie

Ron, I have not used Tamyia over Tru Color either. Just know that many solvent paints will soften the Tru Color if you use it too soon after the intial color.I woukd suggest waiting at least three days and even then you minimal coats. I know Testors Dull Kote won't lift Tru Color nor with FloquiI gloss or satin.

The consequence of using a gloss too soon it will mix with base finish and might not be as glossy as expected.

Pete

Take solace that even prototype UP engines are slightly different.

Charlie... Acetone and plastic lesson learned.

Put some airbrush parts in this cup and filled it acetone.  Left it overnight.

Ron

@Ron045 posted:

Charlie... Acetone and plastic lesson learned.

Put some airbrush parts in this cup and filled it acetone.  Left it overnight.

LOL Ron. That is what happened to me, but mine made a bigger mess, as you said, lesson learned.

If the weather breaks a little, I will be spraying some diaphragms this weekend. I'm going to use a new paint (new to me) that is suppose to work on Lexan for RC car bodies. I'm hoping the little flex this paint has will not only adhere to the rubber diaphragms, but also take a little bending without cracking. I'll post images when available.

Next Tru-Color project is a caboose repaint.

Charlie

@Charlie posted:

Next Tru-Color project is a caboose repaint.

Charlie

Neat... Me too.  Here is a sneak peak.  Hacked up this extended vision caboose in an attempt to make a transfer caboose.

BTW, my project above is ready for decals.  Hope to do that this week and then a final coat of semi gloss.

Have Fun.

Ron