Need help and Ideas to finalize my layout plan

Mike,

Not sure this helps, but could you put a double crossover using four O-72 switches on the right side of the layout ?  Looks like you might have enough room there.

Richie, anything is worth a try! I will check it out!

I just tried and it doesn't look like the tracks are far enough a part!

Mike,

Parallel O72 switches won't work for a crossover because of the spacing. However, as I've pointed out before , they can work when placed on the curves as shown on the right side in this photo.

I adjusted the tabletop and reduced the number of points to make it easier to change things. Unfortunately, your changes are going to mean a much narrower aisle at the apex, though I think you can still move from side to side easy enough. I also reduced the size of the "circle" to maybe make it a little easier to build and made cuts so all the tracks connect.

Is that still a single bridge with dual tracks at the top center? Is the tracking spacing 5.0" as shown?

looks good Mike !  I like the track leading outside

Mike,

going way back, we designed this for pairs of #4's to fit on each end. It still works.

I fixed the peninsulas on your file and created an eye candy file for 3D.

I think you have some extra track going from the city towards the door on the inner line.

So, the question is- can you find 4-   #4 ScaleTrax switches?

Did you buy flex or sectional to this point?

PS. You squeezed the aisle for the peninsula from 26" to 16"

well, good news, MTH has #4's in stock in ScaleTrax

Thanks Dave and Carl! First off I didn't realize I made the isle way so small! I guess I could lose a yard track to gain more room. I wanted the siding by the door just for a passenger station. I am fine with the crossovers either way.

Carl  have only bought some 30" flex track before momma said I could build the train room. Been putting all my money into getting the train room built!

Any ideas of getting some elevation change?

One way is to separate the circle into 2 reversing loops and elevate the one with the industry. You'd need to put a removable top on the hidden tracks between the loop and the roadway.

Here's what the tracks look like without all the "figures" covering them. The green tracks are at 6" elevation and the purple track is a 3.7% grade.

Now, if you really want elevation and a wider aisle, then here's 1 way to do it.

Thanks Dave!  will have to wait till I get home to get a good view! Not the greatest view on my phone!

Mike,

The yard is the reason. I looked at the 3.03.17 file and pasted the loop on eye candy version.  So, you are going to have to compromise somewhere.

The yard is what was originally envisioned as the run that was from St.Paul to the mountains.

The elevation was always a stickler. I think you can create a visual of elevation with scenery and raising the two lines a small amount each.

Anywhere there is switch pins down the elevation grades. The crossovers at the ends hurt the most.

The yard, as is, kills it completely.

The 03.03.17 version had a yard in the NW along the garage wall.

You may also want to consider going through the window when you want to run outside. Have a transition track made up to join an inside and outside switch. I can't see a good reason to put a hole in a new wall with no penetrations.

I attached the file and some photos that I had sent to you for inspiration for the south and west wall.

Stew on things a bit and see how you would like to proceed.

Hi Carl, that's why I put it out here. The only reason I moved the yard is I didn't have a lead into the yard. I still love the original plan you put together just didn't have a lead, I guess I could put one like I put the siding in. What do you think?

Mike,

Erase the board.

Make different figures in SCARM and move them around. Copy and paste elements from a version, perhaps, your last one, onto the new table shape.

Having the 24" table around the perimeter was nice for people(and dog) space, reach, construction and such. Reversing direction required using up that space. Give up that Druther. or, rearrange the table area to a different shape.

You have the Givens of 12' x 24', want people space, 2 lines, a yard and a Druthers of some elevation area and direction reversing.

Perhaps changing the geography to only the Seattle area. Maybe , no specific area, just operational elements that you want for running trains with the Northwest US scenic theme.

My brain is too invested in the Empire Builder run to start over.

I think you need to take over the garage...

Mike

Consider moving the center oval/reverse loop more to the right side.  That way you will not be narrowing the entrance way so much. 

Also, have you considered doing multiple levels?  You have room for a helix or a track that ramps up.  You could fit a much bigger layout into the space.

Bill

I agree with Bill, move the center loop away from the door entrance.  Once you get the benchwork built for the loop, it will give you trouble moving large items into the room.  This could possibly be remedied by building the loop last, so all the lumber, etc is already in the room, but I think I would get tired of the aisle choke point right inside the room.  As you know from my layout planning, I prefer a long upgrade (Dave fit in a rise of 8" with ease in almost the same size room.)  Bill also makes a good suggestion of a helix.  Many folk get a helix to work for them, but I personally don't want to build one, and I don't like the train lost from view for as long as it takes to traverse it. 

Also, is there a way to get the yard out in front, where it will be easier to attend to cars?  If the loop was off to one side, maybe the yard would fit in the other side. 

Also, you know how much I have fussed about access not over 30", where I made my turn back loops on a roll out table.  That is just me.  After pushing a mower at my dad's for 2 1/2 hours yesterday, I do not want to have to crawl under a layout or try to reach over or climb on either.  

The plan is shaping up nicely, I wish I lived close enough to see it come to reality in person!  

Thanks for all the input guys! I think if I relocate the siding by the door, and remove one yard branch I can get back to a 36" Isle. I think the elevation can be just the outer track 2"-3" along the back wall would be enough.

Carl, I cant work on your eye candy cause the green is hiding where I was going to move track. I will try it on my latest saved version. 

I cant scrap this original layout plan as  I like it too much!

mike g. posted:

 

I cant scrap this original layout plan as  I like it too much!

Well then, that is your basic answer.  The rest will be minor tweaks as you go along!  I agree, it is a good plan!

Thanks Mark, Carl AKA Moonman is really the one who put it together! I told him what I wanted and he took it a ran with my request! I like the reverse loop like it is, you don't see many of them like that! I am sure there will be a little tweakes here and there but that's expected!

Yes, Carl does a great job!  I agree you don't see many loops like that, but I recall seeing a video of someone running trains on something similar, and it worked quite well.  

One more try:

Thanks Dave, now I need a little different help. SCARM wont let me open the file cause it was made on a newer version. But I just bought the new one and its not updating my old 2.0 to 3.0?

Any ideas?

Dave, I got it! Thanks that looks great I love the lead into the yard! Thank you!

And here's a 3D version with some elevation along the south wall, though the road is a problem. Kind of hard to see, so I attached the file for you to play with.

Just to add another idea for your elevation wish - 

you could add a second level that is not connected to the main layout level. An elevated dogbone, two reversing loops, or point to point would allow you to have trains at higher altitude.  It would add some intrigue to the lower level as the tracks go over and under each other as well as give you more operational variety. 

Just a thought

I’m enjoying the thought process played out here. 

That looks quite good Dave!

Thanks Mike and Mark. I didn't mention it, but I raised the east track 1" and the south track 3 inches. That leaves only a 2" overpass for the road. However, since there won't be anything actually using the overpass, I'm not sure it makes a real difference. Here's a color-coded version without the landscaping to make the grades,, elevated track and yard more visible.

Hi Dave I really like the looks of it! The airfield in the corner I'm thinking is going to be cut down to 1 runway and put down in the loop. I just haven't figured out how to make the mountain yet, but I am working on it!

Oh it’s an airfield!!  I wondered!  The local one has only one runway, over 6000 feet long.  You will figure it out, and what won’t fit 3d, you can put 2d on the wall. That’s what I’m going to do for my power station.  I already have the photograph of Mount Storm Power Station where I worked many moons ago.  I sold the Menards station.  Too big.

Here's a quick example using something like 1" tall strips of rigid foam glued on top of each other with a hollow core. If you do it right, you can make it a lift-out section.

Mark, is absolutely right. Think about photos on the wall or even a bas relief front of a hanger tacked on the wall to give a little depth.

Thank you Dave.  That is neat how you drew in the layers of foam on the SCARM plan.  I built a whole removable mountain out of foam and it worked great for access to the hidden tracks.  I had farm buildings, tractor, truck, etc on it

So...Mike,

Now is the time to use the MTS extension or simulator in SCARM. You like the looks of the layout, but do you like the operation? Well, you can play trains on it.

Open SCARM and select Extensions on the menu bar and browse for extensions. It will open a Internet explorer window to sign-in. Run the free version of MTS extension install while SCARM is open.

If you don't see anything but your license, than the basic version is already installed. Close out and go back to SCARM>Extensions - Model Train Simulator. 

I liked how you worked the yard lead in there, Dave. Not sure I like the elevations. Too much work for little visual impact.

Mike, an option for a realistic yard is to use an Inglenook instead. It is a nice challenge game when the grandkids or visitors are there. it still provides parking when not being used as a game.

I would give up the elevations, except for the road to the airport.

Also, There is enough space in the outer line to put a switch in the center to run a track out through window. I still don't like the idea of putting a hole in the wall. Weather, critters and all of that stuff...

Ok Guys, I did a little playing with the SCARM, Don't be mad! LOL I made the mountain , leveled the road but cant seam to make a tunnel for it. and I put in the Inglenook yard.

Tom, I am not sure if I would like 2 big loops.

Tom, I don't know what discussions took place between Mile and Carl that resulted in the first design that was posted in the original thread, but it seems to me that locating reversing loops in the corners is problematic. The insistence on O72 curves, not wanting to crawl under to get to access hatches and the limited curve options using MTH ScaleTrax all had an impact on the design. A minimum O72 reversing loop (yellow) will not fit the 12' width, so that limits its orientation. The door also affects placement. Even reducing the curve size to O54 would result in reach issues, though they'd be less than the O72 (green and blue). If this were my layout, I'd be using O54 curves because I think they'd make better use of the space, but then I'm not offended by overhang.

Hi Tom, I just cant visualize it in my space. But can you do me a favor and when you get yours into place can you share some pictures. Its going to be a month or so before I start Bench work!

Tom, are your levels connected together?

Tom, I think I get what you are explaining; but I'm not sure.  I'm like Mike, I would need to see a photograph of it, but of course you don't have it complete yet.  A photograph of something similar already built would help, or a 3D rendering in SCARM or another design program.  I do say this with interest, because it does seem to be a way to get more train running action.  Also, when we get to so many levels, it may be beyond my construction skills.  I think Mike could handle it if he was interested.

mike g. posted:

Tom, are your levels connected together?

Good question.  Now I am thinking I may not be imagining what Tom is saying.

Mike, not sure exactly what you are trying yo accomplish with the mountain, but here's a version with all the track connections fixed so you can run the simulation. The mountain doesn't have to have a physical tunnel in order for the simulation to work.