Need Help Fixing Wheels

Joe, I don't know how professional this advice is going to be, but let me tell you what I have found in my own experience with this.  MEW and other replacement drive wheels do come with the center hole too small to press on the drive axle.  I do not think this is any fault or defect, but is probably inherent in the casting process, as well as in the fact that there are variations in the axle diameters.  Better to make the hole small and have the end user do the final fitting.

You are right that if you use a 'normal' set of drill bits you will likely find that one size is too small and the next step up will drill a hole too large and the wheel will spin on the axle.

If you are going to do any amount of this, it will be worth your while to invest in a set of numbered wire size drill bits, like this example.  These bits increase in very, very small increments.  Start by finding the bit that slips into the existing hole in the wheel, and then using a drill press, use the bit one size larger to increase the hole size.  Test this on the axle, and continue this process until you have found the drill size that will allow for a tight press fit.  I have found that for the axles in a Build-a-loco motor, the size tends to be somewhere around bit size #12, but this will vary by 2 or 3 bit sizes depending on the axles you are fitting. Be careful, don't drill too large, you want a tight press fit – but trying to push an axle into a hole that is too small will result in a bent axle or damaged wheel. Start with the size of the existing hole in the wheel, which is too small, and work your way up one size drill bit at a time.

Some kind of press is helpful for pressing the wheel onto the axle and getting it straight.  But a vise or a drill press can be used as such a press if need be.

Another tool to have around is a locking fluid made for exactly this application.  If you find that you have drilled one size too large and the wheel slips on the axle, all is not lost!  Lock-Tite makes the red and blue thread lock fluid that we use to keep nuts from rattling loose: but they also make a green fluid that is specific for keeping wheels or gears from spinning on shafts.  Get a tube of this and if you have a loose wheel, just a drop on the axle as you position the wheel will hold the wheel from spinning, provided the fit is at least close and you have not over-drilled too much!

david

   Before you machine critical small parts you should test, and inspect, on similar scrap stock, and fit to a finished mate (the axle here).

Finicky, or picky? You could loose some grounding ability on that wheel with any adhesive though that will hold it. I've done it too, but on old repairs. My fav. phat wheel CV is limited on how it hits anti-derails anyhow. A chassis screw and wheel wiper, ho style, if you had to .

  Number/letter sets are great hole/gap/height measuring tools too, I even kept broken shafts, rounded on the grinder. For bit count, usually great deals too. The old time local hardware's, & Ace, Aco, and auto-parts stores, etc. used to have drawers with cheap single replacements, some still do .

If you wanted to really fine tune, reamers and broaches for in between those on your "favorite" sizes. Don't forget your manufacturing tolerances vary. The wheel's vary too. So check each axles end fit after the test holes, before you press wheels Shuffle loose or tight fits, then press all 

The M.E.W. wheels for Lionel ( "O" or Std.)  are all reamed to .178 for use on a Lionel standard size .180 axle.  I think the Daniels GG-1 might be .185, not sure. You should measure the axle size that you removed from the original wheels, and order the correct size reamer or drill bit from a Co. such as McMaster-Carr or Grainger.  Order a size .002 smaller then the existing axle.  Harry 

Harry Henning posted:

The M.E.W. wheels for Lionel ( "O" or Std.)  are all reamed to .178 for use on a Lionel standard size .180 axle.  I think the Daniels GG-1 might be .185, not sure. You should measure the axle size that you removed from the original wheels, and order the correct size reamer or drill bit from a Co. such as McMaster-Carr or Grainger.  Order a size .002 smaller then the existing axle.  Harry 

This saved me from asking questions about your wheel supplies bore size's.

Joe, you also mention difficulty pulling wheels off the axles.  I use this set, particularly the larger of the two.  It can be a little frustrating - it seems like it needs about 3 or 4 well-coordinated hands to operate without it flopping all over the place, but it does do the job.  The benefit is that unlike your battery terminal puller, the center point on these is small enough to fit down through the wheel as it comes off the axle.  The more you do of these, the more you both collect better tools and learn to improvise. Arbor presses are nice.  A right-sized set of vise jaws combined with a hammer and center punch can also get you there.

All the manufacturers – Ives, Lionel, Flyer, etc etc. – all used different diameter axles and wheel holes... not to mention O Gauge which is different, and then the MESG makers which are different yet,  never mind hybrids like your MESG  GG-1 using O Gauge wheels....  I appreciate Harry's two-thousands of an inch and I am sure they are manufactured with care, but at that level of tolerance, considering natural manufacturing variations, nickle plating on the axles, the instability of zinc alloy castings, and who was running the reamer that day... expecting these to go together perfectly is expecting too much, especially on a custom project such as yours: you need the tools and patience to do the fitting on your end.  Which is as it should be.  Tinplate is a tinkerer's dream.  

I use this set, particularly the larger of the two.

The large tool on the left is nothing more than a standard faucet handle puller.

About eleven dollars at Lowes: faucet handle puller.

I have a set of good quality number drills, #1 to 60 that I use all the time. It's rare that I use a fractional drill bit on trains.  I have letter drills too, they do not get any use.

David, Adriatic, Harry and C.W,

Thank you so much for the guidance.  I really appreciate it.  Some great advice here.

David - I have a very similar drill index with 29 numbered bits.  Several are missing, however, the one that fits in the wheel bore (.172) and the next size up (.187) are present.  I have access to a drill press at school in the engineering/robotics lab so I should be able to use that.  The axle measures about .1865 - .187 so I am concerned that if I drill to .187 and due to tolerances like you mentioned it might be to loose.  Good to know about the green Loctite, I will look or that.  Also, I will se if there is a drill index with closer spacing around the size I need.  Thanks also for the link to the wheel puller.  I am going to pick that one up.  Also, I couldn't figure out how t do it without one of these, but when you mentioned a vise and center punch, I see it now.  Your point about the problem with my battery terminal puller being too wide to press the axle out gave me an idea.   The one I have It pretty much looks exactly like the picture of the item on the right in the ink you sent except for the tip.  I can machine a new tip and drill a hole in the tip of mine for the new tip to fit into and then it will work.

Adriatic - Thanks for the idea of testing first on scrap stock.  Also, for the advice on where I can get loose bits to fill the holes in my drill index.

Harry - Thanks for the info on where to get the bit or reamer.  I did not know about reamers.  I just did a little investigating and learned about a new tool which might be perfect for what I am doing.  By the way, you are close with the diameter of the axle.  I measure mine at .187 - .1875 with my digital calipers.

C.W. - Thanks for identifying the wheel puller as a faucet puller.  Your timing was perfect.  I was just going to buy it from the link.  Now I can run down to Lowe's and don't have to wait for shipment.  Gives me something to do today!

QUESTION TO ALL:  Do you think that longer wheel/faucet puller can also be used to pull wheels on to the axle as well as off the ale?  I imagine pressing the axle up into the wheel from the opposite side (to get it on) as opposed to pressing the axle down through the wheel (to get it off) on the same side.  Can this work or does it create a problem with aligning the wheel perpendicular to the axle?

Thanks all.  Really great help for me because I wasn't sure how to proceed but now I can see it.

Here's the list of the 'number drills' physical diameters:

<http://7id.xray.aps.anl.gov/tables/number_drill.html>

Ron M

Ron,

That's helpful.  Thanks.

Joe

I am learning tons today.  I did not know about number and letter drill sizes.  All my drill bits are either fractional or in a few cases metric.  I'm getting an education here and appreciate it.

I purchased a number drill gauge shortly after I purchased my number drill set. It has all the sizes embossed on it. The US General one also has thread tapping information.

That looks like a good thing to have.  Thanks for letting me know about it.

Joe

get reamers,,, enco is another place to buy them , and they show sizes ,,  drills don't give you a true shaped hole,

the reamers are called chucking reamers

Okay.  Thanks.  I'm going to check if our robotics lab has them.

 The faucet puller might work initially for a fitting, but the frame would likely be in the way on loco. I'd prefer to press things with a press or at least a vice anyhow. Make sure the jaws are referenced for center-lines, the boss is supported 1st vs the rim, and hardwood or brass are in the jaws to protect the wheel's face (if not the wheel cup route). Even tape can help prevent scars.  A beater bench vice can get sloppy in time; a machine/drill press vice is normally "tighter" and presses straighter. If you can, always use the jaw center above the vices clamping screw to stay parallel along the jaws width. Level is often easier on the machine vice too as many have the full length machined suface of the jaw-slide to lay blocks on. 

   That pullers balance is tricky enough just getting them off, I'd pass on installing with one.

Good advice.  Thanks.