Need some help with a damaged MTH Protosounds Hudson

My question is this: can I operate this engine conventionally without the tender? Can I bypass the damaged tender circuitry and still operate the engine conventionally? From the damage and corrosion on the circuit board in the tender I have to assume the board itself is toast, if I do need the tender to operate what are the replacement options now for an older engine like this? Are there parts still available?

You're going to need the tender and boards to run conventionally ...Yes it's  definitely in rough shape but I'd bet if you take apart . clean it the best you can . paint it  , get a new battery it might even run.... If not parts are available... Taking a pic before disassembly  is a good idea,  

You could add a Full wave Bridge rectifier but you would end up with no sound and only run in one direction....

This would be a fun project if the engine had not been advertised as "Excellent"| Hopefully it's not as bad as it looks.   Good luck.

I have seen much worse than this that have come back from the apparent dead.  As Gregg said take it apart and clean it as best you can.  Make sure you clean the battery connector thoroughly and get a new battery.  From your pictures, the damage seems to be limited to the tender bottom.  I think with a little attention this puppy will run again.

To repeat Gregg, too bad this was sold as excellent condition.

There goes the myth that the NiCad batteries don't ever leak!

Excellent??? How can people sleep at night knowing they just ripped off a customer. 

Rod Miller

gunrunnerjohn posted:

There goes the myth that the NiCad batteries don't ever leak!

Not a done deal, some one could have had an alkaline in there and swapped it later for a white battery. The battery terminal still looks intact. 

I do not see circuit board damaged?  Show pictures of that.  This may just be cosmetic damage.  G

The operating manual and parts manual are on the MTH web site.  Enter the locomotive catalog number, enter, your locomotive will come up.  Click on it, go to support and find the operating manual and parts list.

You can remove the proto sound board, volume pot, speaker, etc. if you are careful.  Take pictures.  Clean the tender frame with baking soda using a tooth brush, lightly sand and repaint.    Then reinstall the boards, speaker, volume pot and install a BCR.  Do not mess with batteries.  Most likely it will start up. 

If you are not comfortable doing this, there are numerous techs who can do it for you.

Be patient, good luck.

Good morning all and thank you all for your responses, as it seems I must have the tender in operating condition I will take a stab at repairing the pieces I have before ordering replacement parts. I have tried in the past to order from the MTH website but the shipping cost estimates they come back with are always a bit ludicrous, will keep fingers crossed that I can repair what I have and not have to go that route!

@Bruce, I already got the tender frame stripped and neutralized with baking soda...tender body is remounted and the engine and tender are on the display shelf so I can keep everything together as well keep myself motivated! This weekend I will pick up a new battery connector (the original came apart in two pieces) as well some electronic parts cleaner and give it a solid cleanup. Can you tell me what BCR stands for?...can I leave the engine without a battery and operate or should I substitute it with something else(normal alkaline battery)? The battery installed was a MTH 8.4 volt Model PB 1605...it appears to have leaked through the terminals as well on the side. In the end I would be happy to operate this engine without a battery!

@GGG,  It looks like the interior board took the brunt of the damage (the one next to the plastic battery holder. This is where when I look at the board with a magnifying glass I can see parts of the circuit traces have darkened and clouded (not sure if you can see it so clearly in the photo). From my limited experience with printed circuit boards this is never a good sign. If the engine was stored in its box most of its life on its side it makes sense that the damage would be centeredprimarily on the frame as well this side of the board.  

I will give it a solid clean and reassemble, in the end I agree it is a fun project but I think the description is a bit sad! I have three other items with this company that I won on auction and are waiting to ship but at this point with no reaction from my email I think I will cancel the order and walk away.

Thanks again and I will keep you all updated on my progress!

Walt

Certainly does look like the battery gassed out.  I have seen a several that corrode the terminal, but only one that damaged the paint on the frame.  Easy to put a new battery harness together and use any 8.V rechargeable battery, or BCR (battery replacement) (Super capacitor).

That area of the PCB is coupler firing, and I do not see any damage.  Fire it up and test it once you have the battery harness and battery replaced (Needed to run).

Seller should have know of issue based on those screws, even if not opened.  G

This time of year has many bad stories of people getting screwed from fleabay and others.   Very sad.   I will buy used from time to time but only from the OGR Forum.  Don't mess with that engine, demand your money back.   

GGG posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

There goes the myth that the NiCad batteries don't ever leak!

Not a done deal, some one could have had an alkaline in there and swapped it later for a white battery. The battery terminal still looks intact. 

I do not see circuit board damaged?  Show pictures of that.  This may just be cosmetic damage.  G

Here's one of many quotes on NiCad leakage, and since I've personally seen NiCad batteries with similar issues, it's pretty much a done deal in my mind.

Nicads when overcharged will vent gas from resealable vents near the positive terminal. If the nicad is on it's side some electrolyte (alkaline like potassium hydroxide) will leak out the cell at the same time.

Nicads should have a smart "end of charge" detection circuit but most manufacturers just use a simple trickle charge circuit that will continue to charge the cell even when fully charged and the end result is leakage from repeated venting.

Ok, but I did not say they never leak.  It is extremely rare with MTH batteries though.  I have only seen one, until this one.  I have seen corroded wires and terminals at the post, but again not very common.   I opened plenty of never run MTH engines with original batteries with no damage. 

Now if batteries are over charged, or the charge circuit failed and did not trickle charge those would be different circumstances.  G

@MARTY FITZHENRY, I agree and in the past I have purchased a few items from users here on the forum and have been very satisfied...I believe I will be returning to this practice again moving forward. I have been buying from Choo Choo Auctions for quite some time, this order and the last one had issues which lead me to believe that future business with them is not wise anymore. My problem in terms of just sending it back for a refund is the distance; it cost me close to 75 USD in costs and customs duties just to get this engine over here to Leipzig, Germany... it will definitely cost me the same and more to get it back stateside...all this will be simple lost money which I am very doubtful I will be able to recover from the Seller.

This is the danger obviously with building a layout while I am over here and buying from the US on trust of the description only. My past experiences with this company were for the most part good; my biggest gripe is not with the engine specifically, it is that they have not even bothered to respond to my email with my pictures of the problem after close to two weeks. 

I picked up a rechargeable 8.4 volt 250mAh battery this evening from Aldi, once I get a new battery harness I should be able to slap all of it back together and see what happens. Hope it snows this weekend !!

Wish you all a nice afternoon, -Walt

If you want to keep it & tinker with it, if you got it at a great price- then by all means go ahead. If you are not happy, return it. Ebay & paypal are designed to protect the buyer. I quit selling on ebay because there was zero protection for a seller. As a seller, you can't even leave negative feedback.

However, I don't hesitate to purchase, and always pay with paypal, NOT FAMILY side of things. No protection for the buyer, and the 3% isn't worth the peace of mind. I won't buy from forum members either on family paypal, dishonest folks are everywhere, not just on ebay. 

@GGG, just for info..I suspect this is the original battery to this engine, after looking at the wheels I do not believe this engine ever hit the track once in its life, looks like it was either displayed or stored. In the same order I also received a UP 49er from the same timeframe (also protosounds...possibly from the same collection). There was no sign of leakage on the tender frame like the C&O, but as a precaution I naturally checked it also. This battery was also showing signs of corrosion around the battery terminals and the battery harness broke as well like that on the C&O, completely corroded in the lead wires as well. Because the battery is mounted in a different way in the U.P. tender it may explain why it did not "gas-out" like the other; not sure but thought it was interesting. 

Both engines were in OVP that exhibited signs of damp.

@rogerpete,  not sure enough with MTH engines if I got a good price, but it is a beautiful engine and I will keep it with hopes that I can get it running without spending a fortune on parts from the US. Over the past few years I have purchased a few sets and accessories from Forum members here and always was pleased with what I received; it is hard sometimes to find folks willing to ship internationally as well so I need to keep my options open always! 

WaltDD_2 posted:

@rogerpete,  not sure enough with MTH engines if I got a good price, but it is a beautiful engine and I will keep it with hopes that I can get it running without spending a fortune on parts from the US. Over the past few years I have purchased a few sets and accessories from Forum members here and always was pleased with what I received; it is hard sometimes to find folks willing to ship internationally as well so I need to keep my options open always! 

Sounds good Walt- I've always had good luck with ebay, (as a purchaser), and with MTH engines. Keep us updated.

WaltDD_2 posted:

@GGG, just for info..I suspect this is the original battery to this engine, after looking at the wheels I do not believe this engine ever hit the track once in its life, looks like it was either displayed or stored. In the same order I also received a UP 49er from the same timeframe (also protosounds...possibly from the same collection). There was no sign of leakage on the tender frame like the C&O, but as a precaution I naturally checked it also. This battery was also showing signs of corrosion around the battery terminals and the battery harness broke as well like that on the C&O, completely corroded in the lead wires as well. Because the battery is mounted in a different way in the U.P. tender it may explain why it did not "gas-out" like the other; not sure but thought it was interesting. 

Both engines were in OVP that exhibited signs of damp.

Could have been a defective battery, with the internal cells not sealed properly.  I certainly can happen, just seems very rare.  Unfortunately it happen to the one you bought. 

Have you checked your 49er smoke unit?  Those were susceptible to zinc pest.  I have replaced a number of those smoke units.  G