Need to upgrade DCS TIU & Remote

Hi Bill,

Alan just finished a laptop for me, I'm waiting to receive it but he was very willing to help me out & I have no doubt it's going to do the job.

Joe

Bill Brown posted:

I have appreciated this post because I too am a Mac user.  My local hobby shop (Aurora Rails) used to do the upgrades for me, but the owner recently passed away and upgrades are no longer being done there.  So, I am in the same situation as Ironman1.

somehow I missed the story in this post. I was informed by another member Jim Z, that Ron has passed. Very sad for us all here.

Wouldn't TrainWorld in Brooklyn do the  upgrades for you?  Should be a rather medium length subway ride from Yonkers!  I also use an old Windows XP laptop because I am now a MAC user.  All you have to do is read the instructions very carefully and can't be in a hurry.  Should take about 30 min to do both the devices.  

Update to my TIU upgrade. I recently purchased a used Toshiba Laptop with Windows 7 professional installed. 

I jumped the gun weeks ago & purchased a USB to 9 pin serial cable on ebay. The laptop arrived yesterday & I updated both of my ver. 3.1 TIU's to ver 6.1 without a hitch.

I have not been able to update the remote. Once I hit start to begin the remote update, at the bottom of the window, for about 2 minutes the message: "unlocking TIU...searching for TIU" flashes on & off. Finally a window pops up reading WARNING: The program is having a hard time finding a TIU connected. Confirm that all connections are correct andcycle power on the TIU. I went through this process multiple times, same result.

I would think if the TIU updated no problem, with all the connections required, the remote should also. I have a feeling it's the serial cable. Has anyone had this experience or have an explanation?

Thanks,

Joe

Make sure phone cable from remote to tiu is 4 conductor not 2. Most dollar store cords are only 2 wires in a 4 terminal plug. The order of pushing and holding the remote power button thru the process is also critical.

You can force the Consumer Loader software to use a serial port that you specify. First, go to to the device manager and identify which COM port your USB to serial adapter has been assigned by your computer. then in the Loader software, select the Option drop down from the menu bar, click on Serial Port and select the serial port you identified in the Device manager earlier.

NYCBuffalo posted:

Make sure phone cable from remote to tiu is 4 conductor not 2. Most dollar store cords are only 2 wires in a 4 terminal plug. The order of pushing and holding the remote power button thru the process is also critical.

Also make sure that the 3.5mm audio plug link from the Protocast & Protodispatch is disconnected.

I'll try to manually select the serial port. I know it's 4. I bought the phone cable over 10 years ago, how can I tell its a 4 conductor?

ironman1 posted:

I'll try to manually select the serial port. I know it's 4. I bought the phone cable over 10 years ago, how can I tell its a 4 conductor?

If it's a curly cord, you have about a 99% chance that it is a 4 wire cord.

When I purchased all the required extras for doing upgrades I'm sure I was very careful on purchasing exactly what MTH recommended from Radio Shack, & it is a curly cord. I'll try selecting the port now.

I tried manually selecting the port, tried 3 different ports. No joy. So back to the original question, after pressing stop has anyone EVER seen this message: "unlocking TIU...searching for TIU" flashing on & off. Once again, both TIU's updated without a hitch.

I just tried on my laptop without connecting anything so the software was setup to fail and I couldn't get that message.

So this is a mystery.

Yep, I'm trying to recreate this condition, there's got to be a reason!

ironman1 posted:

I'll try to manually select the serial port. I know it's 4. I bought the phone cable over 10 years ago, how can I tell its a 4 conductor?

You should see 4 wires at the end of the cord.  I just use the house wall phone.

Yep, still have one and it works.  I love it when my kids friends ask, "What it that?"

Have Fun!
Ron

Yes, I do have the right phone cord. That can't be the issue. When I start the update the computer can not locate the TIU.

If the computer could see the TIU when updating it, no reason why it shouldn't see it when trying to update the remote. Here's some things to check

First, as noted above, you must not have the stereo cord connected to the TIU when doing this job. 

Second, the fact that there are 4 contacts on the end of the phone cord does not mean that there are 4 conductors.  The plugs all have 4 (or 6), but the handset only needs 2 wires. (I'm inclined to think this is probably the problem)

Third, check the contact fingers in TIU and remote to make sure they are straight. 

Fourth, after each unsuccessful effort, close out the program action on the computer, POWER DOWN the TIU, and then start from scratch.

Fifth, if when updating the TIU, you had Port 4, that is probably the one to select when doing the remote. 

You can verify the phone cord if you have a multimeter.  Set it to read ohms.  Touch one probe to one of the terminals at one end, and then with the other probe touch each of the probes at the other end.  One, and only one, should show continuity.  Then try each of the terminals at the first end and do the same.

This is what's happening. Please see attached.

I have seen that, having been doing upgrades since the beginnings of DCS.  I really do think it's a phone cord issue. Try what I recommended.

Finally an acknowledgement. I don't have a multi meter. Can I try a different cord? I can disconnect the one attached to my phone & try that?

Thanks,

Joe

ironman1 posted:

Finally an acknowledgement. I don't have a multi meter. Can I try a different cord? I can disconnect the one attached to my phone & try that?

Thanks,

Joe

Yep Joe, Go for it. Just make sure it is a curly cord that goes from the phone base to the handset.  The cord that comes from the wall and goes to the phone base has a wider connector that won't fit into the DCS remote.

All these years of upgrading these systems and I have never had a bad phone cord!

Had the same problem updating my TIU and Remote. The download worked fine after I finally got the correct phone cord.

I hope its the phone cord!

If near a Harbor Freight, I recommend their cheapest multimeter.  Occasionally free with coupon.  Accurate enough for model RR work.

What doesn't make sense to me is why did 2 TIU's update without a problem? There was no searching for TIU with that update. To do the remotes I simply removed the audio cables from the TIU. Everything else remained the same then connected the phone cable to the TIU then to the remote.

Because with the stereo plug removed and no connection to a remote, tiu doesn't signal its presence. One or the other, but not both, is needed.

The USB to 9 pin serial adapter I am using came with a CD to install the driver for the device. Is there a chance that the driver installation is causing an issue?

Ironman, trust me, unless you changed something, the fact that you were able to upgrade the TIUs means all connections are correct.

Have you checked all the stupid mistakes?  From personal  experience I can pose such questions as:  Is the TIU powered up, when the instructions say so?  Is the red light on in the TIU?  Are all the finger contacts in TIU & remote straight?  Is the stereo cord removed?  Is the remote turned on?  Do you power down the TIU after a bad try, and then turn it on again?

I have two phone cords in my Liitle Jiffy DCS Upgrade box (along with other goodies like a special spring clamp to hold the remote button down).  Occasionally one or the other just won't work?  I am 99-44/100th sure that your problem is the phone cord---either 2-conductor or failed conductor or bad connection. 

I have followed every suggestion posted here. I purchased a used laptop, 4 serial cables & one new phone cable. I believe I started this whole mess by simply asking for someone local who can do DCS upgrades. I don't want to ship if possible or drive 4 hours+. I successfully upgraded 2 TIU's but have hit a brick wall with the remote! I have made at least 20 attempts, watched the video dozens of times & I clearly must be an IDIOT!

I think I'm done!

Okay so I read through the previous posts here and there is a couple things I think we need to double check. 

Ironman said " I simply removed the audio cables from the TIU. Everything else remained the same then connected the phone cable to the TIU then to the remote." and RJR said "Is the remote turned on?".

When upgrading the remote you start with the remote being off. When prompted you will need to hold the power button on the remote down during the entire update process until the computer tells you that it is complete.  The remote will not display anything during this process, I have had troubles with this if the remote batteries are weak so I always make sure they are fresh before I start.

The last thing I want to make sure about is the which icon you are clicking on in the software to send the code to the remote. There are separate icons for the TIU and the remote.

I've made this mistake before and beat my head a few times before I figured what I was doing wrong.

Edit: I looked at your previous screenshots and you are clicking the right icon.

Ironman, how do you know that the new phone cord is 4-conductor?  Counting the contacts on the plugs is meaningless.

H1000 has good points. 

I used to do upgrades at York.  Some updates were a little more difficult.

RJR posted:

Ironman, how do you know that the new phone cord is 4-conductor?  Counting the contacts on the plugs is meaningless.

Actually, if the contacts are there in a commercial cord, the wires are usually there as well.  FWIW, I don't know that I've ever found a curly handset cord with less than all four wires, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

As for holding the button on the remote for the whole update, that's a non-starter for me.  I have a little spring clamp with a nice dimple that presses the power button.  You don't know how long six or seven minutes is until you've had to hold your thumb on something with pressure for the entire time.

Another point, I have yet to see a remote that doesn't ask you to cycle power a least one extra time before the update starts.  That's always been a mystery to me, and when I mentioned it to Barry some time back, he acknowledged that was an oddity that he couldn't explain either.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

RJR posted:

Ironman, how do you know that the new phone cord is 4-conductor?  Counting the contacts on the plugs is meaningless.

Actually, if the contacts are there in a commercial cord, the wires are usually there as well.  FWIW, I don't know that I've ever found a curly handset cord with less than all four wires, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

 

2 Wire contact cords are out there John.  I had one and it took me two days to figure out I had the wrong cord.  Once I figured that out, I threw it away so as not to make that mistake again.  Here is my lessons learned post from 2017 on DCS Upgrades.

https://ogrforum.com/...time-and-aggravation

Have Fun!

Ron

I just be lucky.  I've used at least a dozen assorted curly cords for upgrades in various locations, never ran across a 2-wire one.  Since the basic design of the standard telephone handset requires four wires, one has to wonder what those cords were designed for.

It's been many decades, but when all phones were made by Western Electric/Ma Bell, I'm no so sure the handset had 4 wires

By the time they got to modular cords for the handsets, I never saw anything but 4-wire cords.  A couple of the cords I use for upgrades are old cords from real WE phones that got "retired" in favor of wireless stuff around 30 years ago.  When I was recycling the phones I kept the handset cords.  Must be the pack-rat in me.

When I was doing upgrades with Barry's Bunch up at York before the DCS meeting, I came across one that not only would not upgrade, but it locked up and wouldn't unlock.  That's when I stopped doing upgrades at York---didn't want to be responsible. 

I think the cause may have been a bug in the upgrade software or the operational software which had just come out that morning.  Which gives me an idea:  think ironman should re-download the loader software?

I have been following this thread from day one. If a model railroader was thinking about adding DCS to their layout.  Would all this wiring & update chaos scare them away? 🚂

Gary

trainroomgary posted:

I have been following this thread from day one. If a model railroader was thinking about adding DCS to their layout.  Would all this wiring & update chaos scare them away? 🚂

Gary

Too much for me. I'll stick with Legacy.