Need Input from Barry, Marty & gunrunnerjohn

Hi Dave,

Your best better for long term support is to purchase a Legacy 990 set (#6-14295).

Legacy does receive regular system software updates.  You will need to download the Legacy System Utility software and purchase at least one (two is more convenient) black memory modules #6-37125.  You can then download the latest system software v1.52  and update the Legacy set if it doesn't already have v1.52.

Dave Hinkel,

   Thanks much for the advise, will the new Legacy 990 (#6-14295) set come with the latest updates, if I purchase the newest model, or will I need to down load V1.52. to run my Command Control Switches.  I definitely need to understand more about this technology before I purchase the equipment.  Wish Rich and the boys who did the OGR Video guide to DCS would up-date their video, this is one Lionel interface that is not on the video.  Also need to know if there is a different MTH cable for interfacing the TIU with the Legacy unit, just starting to get my feet wet with this joint DCS/Legacy technology.

PCRR/Dave

It is really easy to update the Legacy base and remote if you have the current version on a module.  If you're in a club, folks there usually have the modules all ready.  I have a couple of sets of the current version I bring to the club to do upgrades for folks.

If you have to start with the file and cook the black modules, it's a bit more complicated, and you need something running Microsoft Windows.

John,

   This is why I wanted your advise, I have no idea of the engineering meaning of what you just said, you mean to tell me I am required to build my own technical info for the Legacy unit. I definitely will need help with learning this stuff.

I do have Windows, but I do not belong to any club what so ever. 

I thought if I purchased the latest Legacy unit it would contain the most up dated (black modules) technology.

Please explain in more detail what you are talking about.

PCRR/Dave

John,

I was interested in this also, although it seem like there isn't any store that has the item suggested.

In any case, could you expand on the role of modules and what you do to get them? ...and set them up.  I figured it was a ready to go out of the box if you bought a new one.

Thanks

Ed

John,

    My main reason for this purchase is the Command Control switch operation, will the Legacy be able to control the  CC switches right out of the box?

PCRR/Dave

I'm sure whatever version they ship will control the switches just fine.

Not to "upset the apple cart" here(my names not in the topic)

IMO If you have no intention of ever operating any legacy locomotives, the full blown 990 is about as overkill as it gets. Its like using full DCS and only running conventional.

A command control switch doesn't contain any "legacy" features. You just need to be able to address the switch and throw it.

Its not likely future legacy software updates will have any impact on how a fastrack switch operates.Legacy likely operates these in the default cab1 mode anyway.

The Cab1L should be more than adequate and you'll save yourself at least $120.

 Even the old TMCC cab1 will operate them.

Heres a link to the manual: Fastrack Command Control Switch

Rick O,

   I sure did not mean to slight anyone, please Rick O I value your input, always feel free to add to any post I start.  Thanks much for the technical info I really appreciate it, this is the education I need to make a final decission, on just what to do.  I may in the future add some Legacy engines, I do like them very much.  Let me understand the cab1L unit 1st, does the cab1L come with a Lionel base command, or do I purchase that seperately.  Barry shows a diagram and gives instructions of the set up, in his book, for adding TMCC/Legacy, but does not say, what comes as a unit when purchasing. 

PCRR/Dave

No slight taken Dave, rather, I didn't want step on anyones toes.

Cab 1L comes either way, remote only, or remote and base. You plug in the base, and connect 1 wire from the base to a common anywhere on your layout and your good to go.Hookup is the same for the Legacy 990 set as well in case you go that route.

Cab1L/base1L command set 6-37147

Rick,

   I do not see a recharge station with this remote and base unit, am I misunderstanding something, or must I purchase the Legacy to get the recharging unit?

Right now I am in the process of having my DCS hand held remote made into a rechargable unit, I want the Lionel hand held remote control to be rechargable also. 

Which unit do I need to purchase to acquire this technology on the Lionel side.

PCRR/Dave

If you are serious about getting some Legacy engines, I would get the Legacy 990 set as Dave Hikel posted. I think RickO and the others would agree here.

If you are not getting any Legacy engines then the others know a lot more than I do about the rest of all this stuff, I'll get out of the way.

The 990 has a recharger built into the base (Please note its reputation in not that great)

Chris,

   Please explain further, does it break down a lot, or not charge the batteries all that well?  What is the exact problem with the unit?

PCRR/Dave

The charger, when working is fine.  Many units, the charging circuit fails.  It will just show an error in charging and never gets to a "complete charge" status.  A lot of folks just turn off the charger and use and external charger or regular batteries.

The good new is when it does fail, Lionel will repair the unit under warranty. I have had one with a bad charging circuit.  Other than that it runs trains the way I want it to so the charger doesn't bother me.

There is a ton of info in the TMCC/Legacy forum.

I had to send back both of my bases for repair of the charging circuit.  The good news is, they work fine now.  The CAB-1L does not have a charging circuit, you use primary batteries or charge the batteries out of the unit.

One would like to "think" that given the long wait/delay for the "next batch" of legacy 990 systems. The charging system issues should be resolved for good.

Jon Z and Mike R are somewhat regular forum participants, I'm sure they know its an issue.

At this point your best bet is to order one of the "latest ones", thats hopefully being delivered in the next few weeks.

Searching around for one thats available now could leave you with an old 1.0 version that will need a fair amount of Lionel service to bring it up to date. I've seen it happen more than once on this forum.

"Good things come to those who wait"

Rick O & grJohn,

   Gentlemen thanks very much for your knowledgeable advise, once again the OGR members have answered my questions and now I must make some decissions based on my new knowledge.  Any advise on where to order a new 990 unit would be appreciated. I know pre-orders are done, I did this with Frank at the old Iron Horse many different times in the past, unfortunately his business is long gone.  Rick O your advise as to good things come to those who wait, looks to be a very smart idea in this case, especially if I can pre-order. 

John, thanks much for clearing the CAB-1L charging question up, a might disappointing, but something to think about also, especially for the cost difference.

The decission is now will I want to invest in some legacy Engines to make the purchase of a new Legacy base & rechargeable hand held remote cost effective, my DCS engines work great according to Barrys book my DCS will control most of the Lionel engines,

so do I need a complete Legacy unit to run with my DCS.  Looking for some advise from you gentlemen, are you running Legacy with your DCS or just a TMCC CAB-1L?

Hate to have a nonrechargable remote control, however I could live with it, if I had too. One other question, will I need another set of Scott 10 Amp Breakers in front of the Legacy base or the CAB-1L base to safe guard it, as I do the DCS TIU?

PCRR/Dave  

I'd buy the Legacy 990 in a heartbeat over the CAB-1L.  There's nothing wrong with the other system, it's just that if you do get Legacy equipment, you'll have full use of it.  Also, if you want a second simple remote, you can add the CAB-1L and use it with the Legacy Base, but it doesn't work the other way around.

The Legacy or BASE-1L work fine in conjunction with DCS, so that's not an issue either way.

Aside from the locomotives and track, are any other items required to operate the legacy system in addition to the 990 base controller (6-14295)?

Dave,

As others have recommended, if at all possible get the Legacy 990 as sooner or later you will be hooked on the Legacy engines, just as happened to me. BTW, I have the 990 and an additional remote. The base for the additional remote is just a charger and it works fine. The 'real' base does not work properly as a charger, so I just started using lithium non-rechargeable batteries, and so far they seem to last quite a while.

John, Rick-O, et al -

Do the modules that come with the ZW-L upgrade the 990 to the latest version? I have a ZW-L that is about a year old, and it came with two modules, but I never used them. I will be getting another ZW-L in a few days, and wondered if the modules that I imagine (hope) will be included with it would upgrade the 990 software to the latest version?

Thx!

Alex

Alex,

   Thanks for the advise, I am definitely considering the purchase of a new Legacy 990.

Please tell me more about this additional 990 base that is a charger, must you have the original 990 for this additional base charger to work, or is it a stand alone base unit?

PCRR/Dave 

I understand the logic but have to disagree with this.  IMO it's penny-wise but pound foolish to not get the 990.  It's Lionel's premier control system.  I think to say you'll never run a Legacy engine is something you can't really predict.  New features are sure to be supported by the 990 but who knows how they would support them on the 1L (if at all.)  If you're going to go Lionel command control then go for all the potential function you can, not a somewhat less expensive alternative that's crippled out of the box.  After all $120...that 2-3 pieces of rolling stock.

BTW I understand Nassau Hobby is taking pre-orders on the 990 at a great price.

Chris,

   Thank you sir very much for your advise, looks more and more like I will be going in this pre-order direction for a new legacy.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, just want to let you know that I have FasTrack Command Control switches.

I am very disappointed with them because 50% of them did not accept the setup command. I tried numerous times set the program, I get the correct blinking light to program, light goes back to normal glow as if it accepted the program.

One switch just decides to throw all on it's own. Another switch the light always blinks, cannot get it to stop. The switches I cannot program I work as manual, the out of reach ones I will have to wire. I did not return them because I did not try them until my layout was complete. The few that accepted the programming work great.

Bob 

Bob Rumer,

   Thanks much for the input, I will test my CC FasTrack switches as I build the new layout, thanks much for the heads up, that some are not working correctly.  This is not making me happy at all, if these CC FasTrack switches have big problems I am really going to be upset.  The entire premise for expanding into Legacy is using these wireless remote control switches on my layout.  Do you think your CC Switches were damaged in shipment or do you think they were simply built faulty and not tested.

PCRR/Dave

I'd add this-

 are there any members in Daves area that run DCS/TMCC with all or any of the inquired systems and that control lionel switches with them, so he could see it working and even try it 1st hand...I know we're all spread out across the country, but hopefully someone can chime in to help....I know I like to lay hands on things before a purchase if I can or even play alittle before buying.

Dave, the switches arrived in perfect condition. They were well packed with no noticeable damage. The box the switched is packed in contains enough foam that offers great shipping protection.

Bob 

Bob, if they're easy to take out, bring a couple over some time and we'll see if we can figure out what's happening.

John: Thanks, I will do that. I should have mentioned the switches to you before.

Bob

grjohn,

    Have any of your CC FasTrack switches had problems like Bob's?

PCRR/Dave

Nope, I just have one that the light goes on and off, just been too lazy to take it apart and fix it.

grjohn,

   Now that is reassuring for sure, no doubt I will be looking to you and Rich O and others as I join the DCS & Legacy into one control package for the next Christmas layout.  Have decided to pre-order the Legacy from Charlie N tomorrow, John do you have 10 Amp breakers in front of your Legacy as a safety precaution, or is this un-needed with the Legacy.  John I take it you are having no problems activating your FasTrack CC switches using your Legacy hand held remote, when running both the DCS & Legacy at the same time.   Barry has a note in the book that suggest running all switches thru the TIU, however I believe he wrote this prior to the Comand Control

FasTrack Switch engineering.

PCRR/Dave 

The Legacy command base only puts out a 455khz signal onto the outside rail, no current flows to speak of, and no breakers are needed.

My configuration is a couple of PowerHouse 180 transformers, the MTH TIU, and the Legacy system.  I depend on the PH180 breakers which are very fast and have never failed me.  The TIU has TVS protection across the outputs, so that covers the transients.

grjohn,

   Great so if I use the Z4K to power the TIU & the Legacy I will need no 10 Amp Breakers for the Legacy, and all the Command Control Switches should work perfectly from the Legacy hand held remote control. 

Edmunda,

   Sorry I did not see your post before, you must also have a power supply with your Legacy.

Burlington Route,

  Bob not necessary sir I have operated the CC FasTrack switches before, however I do appreciate the thought.

PCRR/Dave

Adding the Legacy command base adds no additional need for circuit protection, so if you were happy with what you had before, it should still be fine.

grjohn,

    In Barry's book he references 2 different cables that can be used to connect the TIU to the Legacy, MTH cable item #50-1007 or item #50-1032, sence your set up runs real well which cable did you pick to use to join the TIU to the Legacy?

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

You want 50-1032. It will work with either TMCC or Legacy.

The other cable will not work with TMCC and hasn't been manufactured in the past 10 years or so.