New 19X14.5 Layout Idea

Frank,

I'm not sure who makes O84 curves.  What track system are you planning to use?  Ross and Gargraves make O80, and Atlas makes O81.  MTH makes O80 in ScaleTrax and O82 in RealTrax.  If you are planning to run BigBoys and 21"  cars I would worry about using O80 curves outside your O72.  I use Atlas track and use O81 and O90 for my mainline and O72 in the yard and sidings.

Rich Melvin would ask you where your "yard Lead" is.  So would I.

You have sufficient space to do what you want.

Jan

Jan, thanks for the response!

I am using Lionel Fast track.  They have a size every 12 inches.  72 is 6 feet, 84 is 7 feet.

The yard leads would be (if you turned your head to the right to look at the pic above), on the right bottom, and right top.

You think I should be able to do this in the space I have?

Which track system will you use?

Lionel Fastrack.

it doesn't fit. The 084 doesn't leave room for a walkway and is too wide.

I had a feeling it wouldnt.  Thanks for trying moonman!

Frank,

Here are two double dog-bone that fit but it depends on where you can enter.    From track-center-to-track-center both are 13.25' by 17'.

If you elevate one line above the other you can gain more space.  You should also consider around the wall.

Jan

i could consider an around the wall.  I like those 2 you drew up though.  i have a unique area to work with.  it is 19 X 14.5, but about 13 feet across the bottom left is open, and about 7.5 feet on the lower left is open.  So basically in the lower drawing, where there is no track, that area is open.  

I could do an around the wall, but would have to climb under in order to get into it.  I am not good enough to have a pull away section.  

Any thoughts to an around the wall  plans?

Ok, I made something fit with the feel of you plan. It fits in the 19 x 14.5.

The yard at the top needed to move inside. It was a tough reach anyway.

You have to wait for 096 curves to go around the 084 inside turn.

The biggie: You need 3" for short extension at the lower right. 14'9" for about 6" long.

There's a small gap that could pushed with a 1 3/8" or compressed for about 5/8". Everywhere else fits.

The bottom yard leaves a 23" walkway for a short opening, then it moves wide open.

plan v2 is just curved deck.

Carl,

I like your change.

Jan

Thanks, Jan. I hope goalie does. I needs some refinement. I used an old technique of placing circles of 084 on the space available, then set about breaking them into semi-circles and connecting them.

Also, when you have a folded dogbone, it appears more interesting when you cant/tilt one side.

You can do this on graph paper with scale circles.

The yard inside the left loop needs refinement, but I wanted to put out the concept.

There is an opportunity to try to fit switches where the inner loop is close to the straight to create reversing loops. The fitment may be a bit$% with FasTrack.

here's the file for you.

goaliefp,

Next rendition. I am really liking this one.

The fitment all hinges on the lower right. 32" in from the side along the end, you need a 3" extension for 20".  Will that fit? Do you the space there?

I believe my official measurement is 14 feet 9 inches.  I said 14 1/2 just to make sure it fit.  I really like the modifications.  You guys are awesome!  I have to see because i have a LOT of trains ;o)

Maybe I can add a yard on the inner left circle???  Any thoughts there?  Also do you know about how long those yards would be?  I need a few long tracks.

Here is my basement configuration.  The bottom area is for couches and TV so that is not available.  But I have a big open area with 2 walls on each side (6 feet on bottom right), and (7 feet on top left).

So that should give you an idea of what the area looks like..  I could possibly go further than the 19 feet in the area that is not blocked by the wall, but not that much further, maybe a foot at most.

I think the size is good for area and room.

Next up a crossover and an attempt to create some r-loops.

What are your scenery plans?

Also, if you have a Windows computer, you should install SCARM some you can work with the files for parts, plan prints and viewing the 3D to confirm things.

Thanks for posting the room dimensions.  It looks like you'll need some extra long arms or access hatches in the NW, maybe NE, and SE corners of the layout.  You need to consider how you will access those corners.

Depending how tall you are you can reach 3 to 4 feet from the edge.  Some guys build a table so strong that they can walk on it. 

Jan

Another variation of the dog bone.

A second thought says to flip the layout left to right.  Yo can also shorten either leg but this gives you room for a yard and town.

Jan

Well, here is v.4, crossovers added. The layout fits exactly in the 14'9" between the walls. Hopefully, a Big Boy rounding the 084 curve won't hang out too far. There's 2" from the roadbed to the short wall.

This is a counter-clockwise running layout as it is now.

LOL, here's the Port of Goalieville. Something for those sidings to do. Unload a barge or tug service.

Considering it would be tough to find yard space, I have another idea that I was contemplating.  It has less run track, but more area for yard space.  it has 3 levels but they will not connect.  See the picture attached.  Moonman can you draw something up like you have that looks like this?  I cant use scarm bc it gave my old computer a virus and I am not working on my work computer so I am not allowed to download anything non work related.

I think with this one I can do more mountains and scenery.  Also under the 2nd level I can have a peek out to the back of the mainline so there is better reach.  Plus, even though the length of the mainline is shorter, I would like to try a triple main line if possible.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thank you!

Sorry about the SCARM thing. He really can't control the fake links and such that the advertisers put up by the host. Mixy is working on his own time and money from Bulgaria. I had hoped his deal with Atlas would have helped him get a better website host. yes, Atlas offers his software in a special version.

I have attached a clean copy of the installation file. No bad stuff.

The other layout is cool, but I hear you. I just put reverse loop connections in.

For this plan, the yard is the most difficult to design. The space that you have is about what you need for an operational yard. But, here's the rub. That will require lots of switches. $$$ Do you want to park complete trains or cut and build?

I'll layout the tables. Read this Yard Design and pencil it in. Then, I can make the track work.

Don't forget, clean SCARM attached. Right-click>select "save target as" to somewhere. Then run it.  Download the layouts the same way.

Ok some clarifications to your notes.

Do you want a 2 or 3 track oval on the base layer?

Do you want a racetrack or some shape to the loops on the base layer?

Any crossovers on L1?

Do you want just ovals for L2 and L3 or shaped?

How do you intend to support L2 and L3? Decks or L-Girder style with elevated sub-roadbed on risers?

Any crossovers on L1?

Ok,

here's a concept for you.

You'll need to use 036 switches in the yard to fit 8 tracks with 4.5" centers. You can use a GP-40 or GP-38 for switching and the big engines can come in and pick up. Looks like two arrival\departure tracks would work with some back-outs in the ladder or use the one not in use as a run-around.

The yard is a pain.

Waiting for your answers.

Yes I agree with Carl.  To bad you were not using Ross or Atlas #5, 6 etc.. switches and or maybe use Lionel fastrack Wye switches. Try maybe 3 072 Wyes connected together ; two wyes off the 1st one, with some 072 1/2 circles leading to straights, for the yard, just a thought.

Moonman,

I would like 3 tracks if i can fit it.  I can go beyond the 8 feet, which I believe I will have to do in order to have O84 on the outside.  I figure O72 circle inside, O72 with a straight in middle, and O84 with a straight on the outside.  Im open to ideas on the side closer to the yard.  In the back, I am figuring that to be just straights as for the most part you wont see that from the front.  I am planning to build mountains and tunnels over the track in teh back, and then build up in the middle for the 2nd and 3rd level.  I am probably using plywood for 2nd and 3rd level.  i want to be able to come underneath and come up in the middle of the oval of the 1st level.

As far as Seacoast said, he beat me to the punch.  I do have about 7-8 O72 Wye switches that I love.  I like them better than the Left and Right O72 switches, so I was planning to use the Wye's for the yard.  I have about 19-20 O72 fastrack switches.  I think on my last inventory count i had 10 Left and 9 right.  Could be 10 right and 9 left, not sure, but im pretty sure its 10 and 9, one way or the other.

So I do have enough.  And they are all billed for the 1st level.  I have 2 O48 switches to build a siding on the 2nd level, and I was just planning to do a plain O36 oval on the 3rd level.

I do also have a Disney Monorail that id like to fit somewhere, but I can fit that in later, i dont want it to deter from any of the train track plans.

I like your initial concept and if you can build off of that, that would be awesome.  I totally appreciate all the time you are spending to help me out!!!  PS, I cant download scarm bc I am on my work computer and am not allowed to download anything on it.

Thanks!

Frank

aka "goalie" ;o)

PS, I do not have any Big Boys.  But I do have a UP Vision LIne Challenger.  It hangs off about an inch, inch and a half or so over the roadbed on the O72 curves.  All my other steamers are 4-8-4 and are not articulated.  I do have one actually that is the virginian Y3 and it is a 2-8-8-2 but the overhang is nothing compared to the challenger.

I was hoping that your home computer was still running. You would really find it beneficial and enjoyable to have the plan on your own machine.

The concept is on an 8' width now with some spacers stretching the ovals to within 1-1.5" of the table edge.

The aisle is probably to narrow now at 24", so taking another 6" will definitely make it too narrow. Taking that 6" from the yard table will cramp what you want to do there.

The conclusion is that a third 072 loop won't fit.

The wyes are nice for a pass-through yard. The 072 Wye is not tight enough like a Ross 3 or 4 track yard switch (#4) to use that way. I'll post a pass-through for you to see the spacing and one operating yard that I designed.

They take a lot of time and, like I said, really depend on how you want your yard to operate.

Thanks for the switch inventory.

Forgot to answer the question about the yard.  I was planning to store in full trains, engine and cars together.  I like it better that way.  I dont mind having only 2 tracks.  Maybe i can buy some O60 curves, enough for a circle, to do an inner loop?  Only thing is I cant run the steamers on the inside if they are O72 min.  Thats why I wanted O72 thru-out so i dont have to worry about what train goes where.

This attached photo shows what can be done with 072,#switches,smaller switches &Wyes. I had this for years its from an old train friend. Each square = 1 foot.

Picture# 4 at the top (hard to see I apologize)is a Wye 072 with 072 switches off the Wye. Picture #6 might work coming off the table into the yard area using curves off of the switches. Using this as a template you can make it any size to fit your space. Ross and Atlas switches offer more flexibility in terms of switch options vs. Fastrack which has more limited options. #5 switches are nice as they are rather straight off the turnout vs. 072 etc.

Thanks George!!  I like #2, 4, and 5.  I could use any one of those 3.  And it looks like 2 and 5 need probably just over 2 feet.  If i could cut my yard to 3 feet, maybe i can get 1 or 2 more tracks in there.  Maybe even 3 1/2 feet would be fine, would give more room to walk between.

I have 14 feet 9 inches in total.  So lets just say 14 1/2 feet.  If I just use 3 1/2 feet for the yard, and 8 1/2 feet for the main part of the layout, thats 2 1/2 feet of walking space.

Maybe that could work.

I actually think #2 would work awesome.  That is 8 tracks in 2 feet, and it is open fully to all 8 tracks only 3 feet in from the initial switch.  so i could essentially have 8 tracks that are about 15-16 feet long.  That is awesome to me.  I want the long storage for long trains, and I want as many tracks as possible.  If it went to 2 1/2 to 3 feet and 8-9 tracks, that would be perfect.  I could always have a siding off the main line in the main area.  If I do end up doing this layout, i would have 2 of my (i think 12-13 trains) on the 2nd level and they would stay there.  1 train would stay on 3rd level.  so i would need I think 10 track yard and that would be able to store everything.  

I would have 2nd level approximately 6 inches above 1st level, maybe higher, not sure.  and then 3rd level the same above the 2nd level.

I think this is close to your druthers-3 loops 072 minimum and an 8 track storage yard.

The aisle is now 21". test that out somewhere. If you need a larger aisle, yard track will have to go.

I can only get crossovers between the outer two loops because I had to squeeze the spacing of the inner loop to 4.5"`4.75".

The shortest train in the yard is about 125" long.

I like Carl's new yard idea! I guess you could squeeze one switch further back and have the yard go further back, you will just have to use more curves. I agree with Carl on the main part of the layout.

Why not just have two loops that connect and have the center as a engine service yard? Maybe an engine service area with a turntable in the center with a roundhouse and caboose yard etc.

Another option is to put a couple of switches off the inside loop and have industries. Pick up coal at one dump off the coal (or whatever industry you may desire) at the other switch; make the layout operational. Add a scenery element into the center; i.e a water feature with a bridge and a dock & tugboats etc. A mountain etc., just ideas.

Up to you; rather then seeing trains just race around, depends on what you want not us. The Sky is the limit. You also may want to take up Carl's advice and try your hand at one of the software track programs; Scram or RR track programs.

Carl I like that Idea too.  That is the exact plan I envisioned.  So if we did that theres no way to cross over to the inside track?

George, I wish i had a turntable.  That will be years down the road.

A 21 inch walkway is ok.  its more than my shoulder width, but is a little tight.  Id say no less than that.

Theres no way to fit the 8 tracks in less than 4 feet like that prior pic that George posted?  

Well, you can make stuff work-version 3...Crossover Junction...all 3 mains

There perhaps an inch or so to squeeze out of the yard, but then your cutting odd deck pieces.

Thanks Carl for all your time.  Once the area is ready to go and I can start building, ill have to lay the track out and see what happens first.  I like this one better because of all the yard space, but I dont know if I want to stick with it.

What are you going to do with the center of the layout? scenery? big space.

Im going to build UP to the 2nd and 3rd level.  The tracks will be separate.  2nd level will be O48 curve and have 2 trains on it (can still run legacy there).  it will have a siding to put one train while the other runs.  On 3rd level I will have my subway train running on O36.  I have had thoughts of suspending it under the 1st level.  I thought that would be cool but it would only be able to be seen on one side of the table.  Plus, if I ever need to get under the table it might be tougher to get to.

I also have the Disney Monorail that I want to put up.  And I have a lot of houses from Michaels (christmas village houses) that I can put up and make a little town.

With this layout over the first one I asked about, it allows me to do all of that, and have a big yard.  I just recently took down a 17X10 layout that I did not have nearly enough yard space for my trains.  I want them all ( or just about all) on the tracks so I can use anyone I want at any time.  So this makes the most sense.  I was just hoping to find a way to do the first one I asked about because there was more area to run trains and it was nicer to look at.

Unless I can think of a different kind of layout that I end up liking, I probably go with the last one Carl put together.  Just have to make sure everything fits with overhang etc.

If you had to do a layout in the area I provided, what would you do?

LOL! I had the table at only 14' on idea 2. So, at 14'9", the aisle is 30" wide.

Next thought...what is on the other side of the 7' wall?

Idea 3