New arrivals, MTH 2020 Vol 2

Beth

Another forum member wants  to know if MTH scale wheeled diesel locomotives have fixed pilots. If anyone would know, I think you would. I'd like to know.

https://ogrforum.com/...4#145297442898307714

@Oman posted:

Beth

Another forum member wants  to know if MTH scale wheeled diesel locomotives have fixed pilots. If anyone would know, I think you would. I'd like to know.

https://ogrforum.com/...4#145297442898307714

Yes. They do. 

Thanks for asking the fixed-pilot question here, Keith (Oman)...that was me who asked in the other thread.  And thanks, Phil (Hudson J1e) for answering.  Specifically, I wanted to know if the MTH 2-rail F-series locomotives (eg. the F3 from the new catalog) have fixed pilots.  

And while we’re at it...for locomotives types that have handrails along the pilot steps, are they full-length handrails?  I just haven’t seen many photos of MTH 2-rail diesels.  Thanks everyone!

@CNJ #1601 posted:

Thanks for asking the fixed-pilot question here, Keith (Oman)...that was me who asked in the other thread.  And thanks, Phil (Hudson J1e) for answering.  Specifically, I wanted to know if the MTH 2-rail F-series locomotives (eg. the F3 from the new catalog) have fixed pilots.  

And while we’re at it...for locomotives types that have handrails along the pilot steps, are they full-length handrails?  I just haven’t seen many photos of MTH 2-rail diesels.  Thanks everyone!

Here's my recent purchase of a 2014 scale wheeled MTH. Maybe this answers your question. I swapped the scale wheels for hi-rail, but left the center wheels as scale instead of installing the dummy wheel set. This is the way I want to go when available. Yeah, lose the electo-couplers and you have to install Kaddee, but I like the trade off.

I only have one of the MTH scale wheel diesels (it is a Trainmaster like Oman’s but a different road name) but every one I have ever seen has the fixed pilots and full length hand rails. I have a friend who is a 3 railer and he will only buy the scale wheel versions and like Oman he switches out the wheels for high rail wheels. Yes you do lose the Lionel type remote coupler but I like Kadees better so I don’t mind it. 

I wish MTH would start offering the scale wheel version on the GP7/9. 

@Hudson J1e posted:

 

I wish MTH would start offering the scale wheel version on the GP7/9. 

Yeah, the new catalog has GP7s, not a road name I want, but no fixed pilot offering.

Thanks guys.  I’ve become a “3RS/Kadee” person over the past few years—and have even been thinking lately about the possibility of going 2-rail—that’s why I’m asking all the questions.  I’m seriously considering ordering a set of the 2-rail CNJ F3’s in the new catalog...just wanted to make sure the F’s have fixed pilots.

IDK if anyone makes 2 rail engines without the fixed pilots. It would kind of defeat one of the things that makes 2 rail "scale". 

If also heard that u can run MTH 2 rail  engines with the scale flanges, on Atlas 3 rail track that is O-72 or wider curves.  Just add the 3 rail pickups that they come with, and throw the switch for AC.

Atlas also made 2 rail engines than ran on AC (tmcc equipped) bck in the beginning.  SD35's, GP35's and RS-1's, GP60's.  Another "ive been told"  is that Lionel 3 rail diesel trucks will fit the Atlas engines..if u want to make the engines 3RS. I wouldnt want to try it myself...but thats what ive been told...

And....I do Have a few Atlas 3RS engines here.  They were Atlas 2 rail AC engines, that they changed over to 3 rail trucks, but keeping the fixed pilots and 2 rail couplers.

They have been here for years...never did anything with them

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

IDK if anyone makes 2 rail engines without the fixed pilots. It would kind of defeat one of the things that makes 2 rail "scale". 

If also heard that u can run MTH 2 rail  engines with the scale flanges, on Atlas 3 rail track that is O-72 or wider curves.  Just add the 3 rail pickups that they come with, and throw the switch for AC.

Thanks, Beth...that’s what I thought, but just wanted to confirm.  I haven’t seen all that many actual photos of MTH 2-rail engines, and the MTH catalog images are typically 3-rail with claw couplers.

I think with the MTH scale wheel models, you need to install your own couplers.

-Brian

Kadee 743 short center set couplers work best on MTH 2-rail diesels, especially the 6-axle models. The smaller draft gearbox is better suited for the tight space between the coupler mounting pad and the outboard axle.

@Valpac posted:

I think with the MTH scale wheel models, you need to install your own couplers.

-Brian

You are correct but it is very easy to do. 

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

 

And....I do Have a few Atlas 3RS engines here.  They were Atlas 2 rail AC engines, that they changed over to 3 rail trucks, but keeping the fixed pilots and 2 rail couplers.

They have been here for years...never did anything with them

Beth,

That's interesting. Do you have a list of these? I might be interested. The late Jim Weaver was very supportive of the 3RS concept. I once asked him for advice on matching the blue on the original ATSF GP60s so I could swap in full fixed pilots. He instead just sent me a pair of painted pilots. Jim was great that way; a modeler as much as company representative.

RM

Photos of my conversion of scale to hi-rail. I left the center wheels as scale, rather than installing the dummy wheels. If more of us, join this movement, then MTH will follow. It is what the premier line should be. I'm going to add that we need to pre-order the scale wheeled versions to get MTH attention. Not sit on the fence and pick up the few that they produce. If they see the orders, then they'll see the opportunity. I have boycotted another manufacturer for delivering unacceptable product, but I haven't seen that level of product disgrace with MTH.

@Pete Kruimer posted:

To be more specific:

MTH Premier 20-xxxx-1 signifies a 3 rail locomotive with a floating pilot, knuckle couplers, large flanges and handrails that only extend to the end of the of the pilot separation.

MTH Premier 20-xxxx-3 signifies a 3 rail unpowered locomotive with the same features above.

MTH Premier 20-xxxx-2 signifies a 2 rail locomotive with a fixed pilot, full length handrails, scale flanges and pre-drilled holes for kadees, purchased separately by the user. These engines come without couplers.

If  you are a 3 railer that would like to try a -2 locomotive, and unless you have modified your turnouts to accept scale flanges, have excellent track work and plan on limiting backup moves, you will want to replace the scale wheels with 3 rail wheels to run on 3 rail track.  The 3 rail wheelsets are numbered 20-89008 for 4 axle wheel sets and 20-89006 for 6 axle wheel sets.  To replace these you need to take out the top of the truck block held in by 4 screws.  The wheel sets need to go in as a direct axle for axle scale wheel replacement, and sometimes require a bit of effort.  Make sure the removed truck block top is secure and there is not even a slight separation when putting back together.  You will also need to flip the switch inside the locomotive to 3r for 3 rail operation.  Then you will need to purchase kadee couplers to mount on the engine.  Running 2 rail engines with fixed pilots will limit you to most likely 072, if you want to pull something.

MTH at one point was going to issue a -2 locomotive for every -1 locomotive, but stopped.  They have not done nor as best as I can tell plan to expand the -2 lineup to the rest of their engine catalog.  

Good general guidelines, but as with anything there are numerous exceptions. You can easily run -2 Scale wheel F units with Kadee couplers on O-54 curves and turnouts while pulling 40-50 ft. rolling stock. MTH scale wheel steam will run quite reasonably on MTH Scale Traxx as well as Ross/Gargraves track. Some -2 steam such as the PRR K4 and H3 2-8-0 I have had success running on Lionel Fastrack. 

The fact that MTH stopped converting their old tooling to -2 scale wheel versions and the fact that they have basically stopped making new tooling is pretty frustrating.  Lately they have been taking old diesel tooling, upgrading the electronics to PS3, upgrading the trucks to be proto 3/2 convertible, but not actually fixing the pilots or adding correct handrails. So what you are left with is a 3 rail diesel that "can" run on DCC, and "can" run on 2 rail track, but requires you to fix your own pilots and bend your own handrails. Kind of pointless to me. Some old tooling they can't even be bothered to do that. Then on the rare occasion when they actually DO make new tooling like the 44 Tonner, they don't make a -2 version AND they don't even make it proto 3/2 convertible! It's straight 3 rail only...

The inconsistency and failure to deliver many cataloged -2 models has caused me to lose trust in them personally. You simply never know what they are going to do. A friend of mine simply refuses to believe ANYTHING MTH says or catalogs until he can put his hands on it because he's been burned so many times. Can't say I blame him.

To directly answer your question Beth, yes MTH does make 2R engines WITHOUT fixed pilots as well. Look at the GP9's and SD40-2's in this catalog. Swinging 3R pilots and short handrails, but they are Proto 3/2 capable which means you can take off the center rollers, flip a switch, swap in scale wheelsets, and go run them on 2R layouts. Nobody does this because nobody interested in 2R wants an engine that looks like a 3R engine. You could then fix the pilots yourself and form your own handrails, but why would you? Just buy a 2R model from a different manufacturer.

This is another example of MTH getting 8 or 9 tenths of the way to something good and stopping. Which leaves them with something that is really no better than if they didn't bother at all.  

Just to confuse everyone MTH offers the following:

• PS1 - 3R - Not DCS compatible
• 2R DC - older and hard to find
• PS2 - 3R - DCS compatible
• PS2 - Proto 3/2 2R capable with scale wheels (Note that on 2R there is a polarity issue so if you have a reverse loop or turntable you have to flip a switch or it stops working)
• PS3 - 3R - DCS and DCC compatible
• PS3 - 2R Scale wheels (DCS and DCC compatible with no polarity issue)
• PS3 - Proto 3/2 2R compatible, but without scale wheels or fixed pilots (as described above)

I'm pretty sure that's all of the variations. And they wonder why newbies get so confused...

The 2R modelers I know either want the old 2R DC models or the latest PS3 Scale wheel models. Myself included.