NEW Big Boy ON ITS WAY, PLEASE don't be broken.

@42trainman posted:

So, yes, I was able to turn volume completely off with the orange remote.  (new info, didn't know I could do that). Turned it all the way off, but still hear the high pitched squeal.  Sound like rubbing styrofoam or two nylon gears not meshing well... thoughts?  Again, if anyone can post the vids for me, you could hear it well.

Did you look carefully underneath and make sure you got all the packing foam out from under pilot & trailing trucks?….some pieces can be sneaky, and evade detection…had one fella drive an hour out of his way for me to remove the foam from a truck…

Pat

Yes, it's not that.   I flipped it upside down on a pillow a few minutes ago and can't see anything wrong.  But I did notice the half moon housing (presumably for the flywheel) seems to have one side higher than the other.   See pic.  If any of you other folks that just received the new BB wouldn't mind please flipping yours over and telling me if this is normal.  I expect it is though.  It only makes the noise in forward also, but I can't post the video.

That half moon housing is the gear box bottom cover, and yes,…it’s supposed to be like that….

Pat

Thanks Pat, I figured as so.  Do you think this sequel is hurting anything?  Am I tearing up a nylon gear or something if I run it?  

@42trainman posted:

Thanks Pat, I figured as so.  Do you think this sequel is hurting anything?  Am I tearing up a nylon gear or something if I run it?  

I dunno buddy, ….I haven’t seen a video yet, so I’d be speculating at best…

Pat

Thx.   Well I have a 14 second clip but cannot post it.  If anyone here can let me email it to them and can post it for me, we may get to the bottom of it.  I'm still hoping it's nothing!

Why is the video not able to be posted? Over 100MB or something with your phone just not cooperating? If it is possible, see if you could load the video to your computer files and then try to load from there(as long as it is less than 100MB's as it won't load on the forum if it's over that).

Dave, I have no clue, I'm a dope I imagine... lol.

@42trainman posted:

Dave, I have no clue, I'm a dope I imagine... lol.

Well, you’ve figured out how to upload pictures, video ain’t no different,….the video should be in the same library as your pictures??…no?…..add attachments, choose library, add the video,…..

Pat

@42trainman posted:

Dave, I have no clue, I'm a dope I imagine... lol.

I know my phone updated it's camera and all the files names changed with new pictures. To upload for me now, I usually choose option of "this week" if that applies. If it has been a while, I choose to pop them on a flash drive and then upload that way. The main problem is my photos take up a great chunk of memory on my phone, so when they are loading for me to select from, it takes a while. It's just easier to find a spot(a folder) to pop them into to upload from.

Let's see if this works.

I defer now to the expert tech repair guys...

Yeah, stop running it,…..that’s something rubbing the flywheel like John said….

Pat

Ouch that is not good.

I cannot believe this.   Is this an easy fix, or a warranty return?

@42trainman posted:

I cannot believe this.   Is this an easy fix, or a warranty return?

If you’re not comfortable opening her up, then no, it’s not an easy fix, ….especially if you’re not sure where to begin,….I don’t know your skillset, so I can’t answer that, and technically, Lionel voids the warranty if you do, ….So, sadly, it looks like a return trip,…unless you know a dealer locally with a good mech, that can sneak in and sneak out, ….but I don’t condone it,….( for the record) ….I’d a fixed myself,..

Pat

@42trainman posted:

I cannot believe this.   Is this an easy fix, or a warranty return?

I vote for warranty return. A betting person says that sounds like the tiny slats of the optical tachometer rubbing against something. There is plastic guard that is supposed to route the wires and prevent that type of rub, or it could be the encoder hitting the optical sensor or something else.

2 things about that- running it will heat and melt the encoder ring from friction ruining it- but also whatever it is rubbing on.

Again, stop running it, and either send it back to lionel, or completely take the shell off and find the rub, but being the rub is already that loud, damage may have been done to something.

Again, what I'm getting at is the high pitched frequency of that rubbing sound, definitely points at the flywheel and specifically the fine pitched optical slot encoder. Because that is super thin and semi fragile plastic, and if even one slot is broken, damaged, or blocked, you will then see motor speed skip and also affect chuff. The rubbing tends to deform and weld the plastic and I have seen a situation where a rub quickly ruined an encoder ring. Worse, if it's the sensor rubbing, then both the sensor and the ring melt and plastic weld from the friction. You would be surprised how this goes from annoying sound to that's not good, to much bigger problem.

Also, these rings are $8 and then $10 shipping and no you should not be dealing with that, not on a new engine.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-RING-OPTICAL-LEGACY

Amazing! Doesn't The manufacture/Lionel test these high-end models prior to shipping?

I can't express how ticked off I am right now.   I'm tired of this.

@Hot Water posted:

Amazing! Doesn't The manufacture/Lionel test these high-end models prior to shipping?

I got nothing,……

Pat

@Hot Water posted:

Amazing! Doesn't The manufacture/Lionel test these high-end models prior to shipping?

Wait, ….I do got something!….at least they got y’all’s color right on this one!…..I mean, c’mon?……1 out of 2 ain’t bad ……no??.

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Wait, ….I do got something!….at least they got y’all’s color right on this one!…..I mean, c’mon?……1 out of 2 ain’t bad ……no??.

Pat

Eh not quite I don’t know what’s with them but they can’t ever make up their mind on what color the “Union Pacific” on the tender and the road number under the cab window. Jack will know for sure but my understanding is it should be aluminum. The big boys they used flat white. The early challenger looked good, the 4-12-2 is a grey, the 2018 challenger was grey.

maybe I’m wrong but that was my understanding.

Looks like I'll be on the phone again with Lionel Warranty on Monday.   Again!  I'm some ticked off, I thought I had a chance for a winner this time.  

@zhubl posted:

Eh not quite I don’t know what’s with them but they can’t ever make up their mind on what color the “Union Pacific” on the tender and the road number under the cab window. Jack will know for sure but my understanding is it should be aluminum. The big boys they used flat white. The early challenger looked good, the 4-12-2 is a grey, the 2018 challenger was grey.

maybe I’m wrong but that was my understanding.

Oh, ….yeah, ….we’d have to rely on Jack or the other UP aficionados for that, …for us NYC modelers, the new Dreyfus colors just a wee bit off,…..

Pat

Yes the tender is shiny

@zhubl posted:

Eh not quite I don’t know what’s with them but they can’t ever make up their mind on what color the “Union Pacific” on the tender and the road number under the cab window. Jack will know for sure but my understanding is it should be aluminum.

Aluminum lettering is correct.

The big boys they used flat white. The early challenger looked good, the 4-12-2 is a grey, the 2018 challenger was grey.

maybe I’m wrong but that was my understanding.

The color of lettering (to me) is minor (the color of a boiler) maybe not so much.  But I started this thread hoping and praying for a working loco that doesn't have to go back... again.  As stated in my first post, Im kinda tired of very expensive locos having to go back in week number ONE.  I'm going to report back what Cust Serv says when I email them the 2 video clips I have.  I'm hoping the tech experts here can help me navigate what they tell me.  

I know how you feel, 42trainman -- I've been there.  I have the excursion version coming too currently in transit and am hoping I don't go through that again.

Business opportunity for the Lionel retailers reading this -- I shouldn't have to, but at this point I'd gladly pay a bit more for you guys to open these brand new Legacy and Vision Line engines and put them on the test track to make sure everything works before you ship them to me, rather than shipping me an unopened box straight from China.  I think this would keep the warranty intact and prevent most DOA or other problematic scenarios like this one.  Ultimately, it's Lionel's issue, but it also costs them money and angers / frustrates their customers.  I also know "stuff" occasionally happens during shipment too, and there's no way to drive the defect rate to 0%.  As stuff gets more complex and they pack ever more precision components into these little models, the tolerances get tighter and it's easier for something to be a little out of whack and cause a problem.

I hope you get it resolved soon, 42trainman!

Thanks Blue, I know why some guys just stay to postwar.   Nothing to hardly break.   All fun, no headache.  

The sound coming from the engine reminds me of those wacky remote control cars that squeaked like crazy when they ran. I just can't stand how that is coming from something like that. I know that with age and sitting you get a squeaky linkage or wheels that would need a bit of oil on them, but that is scary. Hope that this gets fixed without anything else coming out of the woodwork, as it shouldn't happen in the first place. ☹️

@42trainman posted:

Let's see if this works.

Now that I hear the video, I'd certainly stop running it until the source of the noise is corrected!  If it were mine, I'd have a look inside, but I've had at least a dozen of the Legacy Big Boy's apart, and I know my way around them.  Sadly, if you're not able to safely examine the motor and drive linkage, I'd send it back as that's not a sound you want to hear!

I got mine from Charles Ro. They packed it in an over sized box and put peanuts around it. It was packed very well.

Jim D.

@BlueFeather posted:

Business opportunity for the Lionel retailers reading this -- I shouldn't have to, but at this point I'd gladly pay a bit more for you guys to open these brand new Legacy and Vision Line engines and put them on the test track to make sure everything works before you ship them to me, rather than shipping me an unopened box straight from China.

I believe many vendors will test run  free of charge. You just need to ask.

At the same time, when your spending 2k I don't think it's too much for them to do it for free.

42 trainman, I am sorry for your frustration. At least you know that Lionel will fix this issue. But think about this..........What happens on day 366 when your warranty runs out? Maybe you could open it up and fix it yourself, but what if you can't? Think about the hassle of trying to find someone to repair it, parts availability, shipping both ways with over 1500 in shipping insurance, etc. I had a nightmere back in 2017 with a legacy UP 4-8-4 that was out of warranty for a month. I practically begged Lionel to repair it (I was prepared to pay) but they refused. In the end Lionel bought the loco back for my purchase price but I had over 600 dollars invested in sending back and forth to a repair tech (more than once) parts and labor all for nothing. It never did get fixed. Lionel would not reimburse me for the 600 dollars I spent for nothing. I have not bought one Lionel item since. I have been tempted but then realize that day 366 will be here soon and I would be on my own. I have decided I dont need the stress.

The video clip with the sound system turned off tells a clear story "something" is wrong.   I bought from Legacy Station and they did a good job packing and did put it in another strong box, I cannot fault them, they have been nothing but pleasant to deal with.   I'm sure I'm going to be stuck with Lionel warranty and most of us have had that headache.  It just bugs me SO much since this is the THIRD bad vision/legacy loco I have had to send back out of 4 purchased in the last 2 years.  That is a bad record!  In fact, some of you might remember, my 2-10-10-2 went back twice!!  I guess I'll email them today with the video clip and wait around a couple days for the response.   UGH!  Thanks to all for your helpful input.  I'll post an update when I have one.

I would try to get Lionel to send you a shipping label. However, assuming Lionel is not paying for shipping, you have just lost your "good deal" from your dealers discounted price. I know the frustration. To ship that back to Lionel with 2000 dollars of insurance will likely be pricey. Can you send it back to the dealer and let him deal with this? Hopefully in the end you will get satisfaction. Lionel makes the most beautiful, drop dead gorgeous locos with awesome sound features, but when they go bad it REALLY GOES BAD. I stopped buying and I got over it.

Lionel could remedy this problem by reinstitution of dealers and service techs (competent  of course) to remedy problems like this in-field. Now this doesn’t apply to those that live in the boonies or too far to drive, but in the case of 42trainman’s to be sure he’d drive to a local tech that could address the issue without all that shipping hassle …..I’ve got guys that’ll drive 2 hours to have me fix something……a lot of it is either new, or just barely out of warranty…….I still wonder what was their reasoning for dropping warranty repair centers like hot potatoes….

Pat

Lionel brought all the tech stuff back "in-house" in 2022 according to their website, due to the trains becoming too tech advanced (basically).  I'm fed up, but I'm going to remain calm and not bad mouth as I wait to see their reaction to the professional/polite and to the point email I sent over with the warranty paper and receipt, and the video clip.  Fingers crossed.  If they pay for the return shipping and handle this quickly, I'll hang with them, despite how disappointed I am.  If they try to expect me to pay for shipping or short change me at all, I will be 100% done with them.  Again, fingers crossed they handle this well.  I hope everyone has a great weekend, I think I will work on scenery!

I'm pretty sure this would be a fairly easy problem to diagnose and correct.  Happiness is a solid bug.  It's a shame that Lionel won't let service stations work on this stuff.

BTW, isn't the warranty on Vision Line locomotives still two years?

I thought Lionel paid for shipping on Vision Line Engines. Did they change the policy?

Jim D