New Layout Design

The following is just a suggestion.  If you narrow your ovals 10 inches between east and west sides and place your yard entry on the west side, you could place your yard lead switch almost at the top (north) of that west side.  That way, you can work the yard and add one arrival / departure track (siding) along that side and not "foul the main" while switching.  Using a west side yard lead also keeps the Timesaver area closer to the east edge.

Of course, I don't know what you had planned for the middle of the space, so this suggestion might be totally impractical.  Still??

Chuck

Chuck:

Thanks - I actually did what you said but did not post that design. One thing I left out. Both the top (north) and left (west) butt up against a wall so placing the yard on the west side with the A/D track along the north wall looked great but it dawned on me I did not have manual access to individual cars in the yard.  I plan to use one of the yard spurs as an A/D - Classification track. Also down the road when I can afford them I want to buy two Ross yard crossing tracks and add to the end of the yard track so I have a run around (see below).
The space at the top is reserved for a mountain scene. I don't have the room to raise track high enough for a cross over so decided to fake it with a mountain scene against the north wall. I am going to build the mountain with one or maybe two elevated tracks that go no where other than into tunnels. I will place some cars disappearing into the tunnels for effect. This way I can show off some of my wood bridge and trestle work.

Joe

Did some more design modifications in the lower yard. I changed the Ross yard crossing turnouts to the opposite direction, moved them forward so a yard loco can back them into two separate yard tracks. I also added more track to the bottom refinery tank car stub. Now a yard diesel can remove loaded tank cars from the left and move in empties from the right.

Started pulling off what track I had screwed down and powered. Once I get the table cleaned off which also means clearing out all the track wiring from the bottom of the layout table my plan is to go slow with re-routing track power terminal boards making sure all the runs from the power supplies to the boards and board to board are heavy gauge wire. I believe some of the runs were 18 gauge. I want to make sure I have 14-16 gauge minimum. I am using Split Jaw connectors for track connection so the wires from the terminal strips to the track will be all 18 gauge.
Then it is on to the top. In my haste to lay track (other than painting the homasote white) I did nothing else except lay some Woodland Scenics sand mats down for the yard. I kind of like these mats. My plan was to paint after the track was installed and tested out. Since my layout is small I think instead I may go back to the grass mats. I used these  on my last layout. I had a little problem with the mats laying down with wrinkles or bumps but all in all they looked good and because of their vinyl backing provided a great moisture barrier base for further scenery work.

Hi Joe,

If I may offer a few suggestions.

First,

The passing siding at the top of your layout is already connected to the inside loop on both ends.  See the red circles on the diagram below.    Since it's already connected to the inner loop the third connection at the bottom of your layout is not really necessary.  See the red X.

My suggestions would be to:

- remove the lower connection to the inner loop on the bottom part of your layout

- use the inner left side of the layout to create a small stub end yard

- remove the timesaver

- in place of the timesaver and in the rest of the space inside the inner loop why not create several industries which creates more prototypical switching opportunities which may hold more interest both operationally and visually to those who want to do something besides watch trains run in a circle.  You really don't have room for scenic elements within the timesaver the way your layout if configured.  You even have room to create a runaround covering most of the passing siding and can run your switching moves off of that.

- if you do create a runaround off the passing siding you now can use the siding as an interchange to drop off cars from a mainline consist.  You can use smaller curves on the runaround and tracks to industries to give you more room for scenery as switchers can navigate down to O31 or O27.   This is very prototypical and would enable you to add even more interest to the layout both operationally and visually.

Either way, you have a nice looking layout in a modest space. 

Keep us posted on your progress.

Regards,

Greg

Greg Houser posted:

Hi Joe,

If I may offer a few suggestions.

First,

The passing siding at the top of your layout is already connected to the inside loop on both ends.  See the red circles on the diagram below.    Since it's already connected to the inner loop the third connection at the bottom of your layout is not really necessary.  See the red X.

My suggestions would be to:

- remove the lower connection to the inner loop on the bottom part of your layout

- use the inner left side of the layout to create a small stub end yard

- remove the timesaver

- in place of the timesaver and in the rest of the space inside the inner loop why not create several industries which creates more prototypical switching opportunities which may hold more interest both operationally and visually to those who want to do something besides watch trains run in a circle.  You really don't have room for scenic elements within the timesaver the way your layout if configured.  You even have room to create a runaround covering most of the passing siding and can run your switching moves off of that.

- if you do create a runaround off the passing siding you now can use the siding as an interchange to drop off cars from a mainline consist.  You can use smaller curves on the runaround and tracks to industries to give you more room for scenery as switchers can navigate down to O31 or O27.   This is very prototypical and would enable you to add even more interest to the layout both operationally and visually.

Either way, you have a nice looking layout in a modest space. 

Keep us posted on your progress.

Regards,

Greg

 

 

Hi Greg:

I see what you are saying - yea it looks like some redundant turnouts.  I have a detailed plan attached. since the inside loop will contain a passenger station I think I will delete the turnout at the top left. I will delete the track going to it from the blue turnout (third track from top) and replace that with a simple curve into the passenger yard. Your idea actually frees up the main line so the passenger train can run while yard switching goes on inside.

My original intent with the timesaver module was to have something for friends to do when they came over. I have it set up as steam locomotive yard so I will have various cars (tankers, hoppers, gondolas, box cars, etc.) I could position for the game. But you are right I have only two customers - the flour mill and the refinery. Looks like you are going to responsible for keeping me awake tonight while I ponder!

Joe,

By your reply to my suggestions, I'm not sure I made myself clear.  I was suggesting that you place the initial switch for your yard in the northwest corner and run your yard lead all the way down the west side.  At the southwest corner, the lead would curve into a mirror image of the yard you now show.  If you shrink your ovals enough on an east-west basis, you could easily include a yard lead and an A-D track on the west side without jeopardizing your reach issue very much.

Chuck

I think I see what you are saying. I will work on the design.

Joe

I have re-worked the design and came up with the following. I combined the time saver module with the yard track, moved it to the edge of the layout and now have a long yard track. With this design I can manually reach everything in the time saver module and yard. The time saver module will double as a diesel and steam locomotive yard. I left the passenger train yard double ended so a train could pull in and out.

The table has been cleared. I am waiting for some Woodland Scenics sand mats for the yard at the bottom and the diesel / steam yard on the right side. In the meantime I am going to re-route all the power and ground lines under the layout, hopefully clean them up and make them look neater.

Chuck: Thanks for your idea about the yard lead. it worked out great. No more fouling the main.

Just finished up re-routing the ground wires. Since I was dropping down to 14 gauge wire at first I was going to use a common ground for everything to hopefully save on wire runs but as I started running wire I decided on two ground circuits. I have my three track power supplies on one common ground and the ITADS, ACC, and Turnouts on another ground circuit.

Next week I will start re-routing power. This will be fairly straight forward just as with the ground with the following exceptions:

1. Power for each of the three power districts (track power) must be electrically isolated from one another.

2. Power district 2 will contain spurs with on/off switches that must be wired from the control board.

3. Power for the ITADS and turnouts could be ganged together but since I have separate transformers for these I will keep the power lines isolated.

4. All accessories are powered by a 12VDC supply so this power for this circuit must be kept separate.

Sand mats came in the the two yards. Once I get the wiring done I will lay down the mats and start placing track.

Joe

A VIEW FROM THE UNDERGROUND (pun intended)

I spent Sunday under the layout routing power wires for track, ITADS, Acc, and turnouts. Below are some photos. I actually cleaned up a lot of 'hanging wires' bit it's a jungle under there.

This is the back of the power supply drawer. I have two 180 watt power bricks plus the MTH Z4000 to power the three track power districts. The 14 volt AC output will power all ITADS. I have a 30 watt 12DC power supply (3 taps at 10watts each) to power all accessories and a small Lionel 1 amp Acc supply for my turnouts.
It is hard to see however other than power cords I have all output wires from the supplies connected to European style terminal boards on the bench-work with enough slack to allow me to pull the drawer out. A close up is shown below.

Next to this drawer is another pull out drawer that is my 'control board'. It contains toggle switches for the turnouts, Accessories and track spurs. The connection scenario is the same as with the power supply drawer.

There is a lot of clutter under here and it is only going to get worse when all spur tracks, turnouts and accessories are connected. Note - all the red 'connectors' hanging off the European terminals are wire ferrules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os66cID30Ek

I also tweaked my design by adding a long track lead to the industrial siding. The thinking here is that a diesel can drop off its delivery of empty cars and pick up  loaded cars from each siding. I just need to determine if I still have enough room for the buildings I want to fit.

Spent Sunday filling in holes with putty. I decided to cover the worst sections (periphery) with Woodland Scenics vinyl grass mats. I have used this before. It provides an excellent scenery base to build up on.

Rather than using double sides tape I opted for the mat adhesive Woodland Scenics sells. It appears to be a basic contact adhesive since one has to brush the adhesive on both the mat and mating surface. I have the grass mats installed in the back of the layout. I will be running sand mats along the front and right side where the freight yard and time saver module (actually a locomotive yard) will go.

Glued down some more mats. I am waiting on two more sand mats to finish off the freight yard. In the meantime I started to place track for the freight yard and time saver module.

The track work is a mixture of Atlas O and Ross Custom.

All the grass mats are in place. I ran out mat adhesive so used double side tape for the last mat. Not sure which I prefer. There are some spots, mostly edges that are coming loose (mat adhesive) I'm thinking about the 3M Super 77 spray adhesive for these. If this doesn't work then hot glue (the mats are vinyl).

I used the grass mats once before on my very first layout. If left alone they look kind of blah but I found out that they can be a very good scenic base to build up more scenery on.

I started placing track to make sure everything fits. Once that is done I will start wiring track (place track bed and drilling new holes).

Did some more track placing. Hopefully this Sunday I can finish up placing track and start wiring power and ground. Looks like my plan was bigger than my layout....... I will need to work on the two loops that go behind the MTH Station. I have the feeling I am going to need to push everything over to the right to make this track fit.

Joe

Got all the track in place - had to make some changes. I have started to wire track.

To wire the track I am using a connection system called Split Jaw connectors. I have posted some info on this system before. Below are some photos.

Below are photos of the track wired and in place. Once I ballast the connectors will be hidden.

This will be my last post for quite a while. I have a few hours on Sundays to work the layout as the rest of my time is spent on customer work. Once all track is wired I will post again on wiring the Ross and Atlas O turnouts.

Joe

Let there be voltage!

One wire set down - 99 more to go..................................

Joe that looks great.......love the track work.....

Where did you get the split jaw connectors?  thanks - Art

a

Art:

Splitjaw Products, Inc

The guy to talk to is Jerry.

Power Supply Connectors (Standard)
SKU B-250-PSC-5.0
Weight  0.02lbs
Material: Brass
Code: 250 - 5.0mm
Type: 16-14 Gauge

Note - if you use Gargraves track because of the flange at the bottom the clamps are too shallow to fit properly. I am not sure if Jerry has modified any clamps to fit Gargraves since that was two years ago. The standard clamp will fit Ross track perfectly. If you are using Atlas O track Jerry will need to shave off about 1/32 from each piece so they will fit. He has done this for me and other people so it won't be an issue.

Dan:

Thank you

Joe

Wired in some more track. It turns out there is some track that unfortunately lie over 2x4 horizontal bench bracing so I could not drill holes for the Spiltjaw connectors. I had to go back to the Atlas O terminal joiners. I have a bunch of terminal joiners I soldered up my self. Good thing I did not toss them.
Also shown is a Klein wire cutter/stripper I use to cut wire. I learned a while back the ends of the stripper have pretty much a perfect profile to fit over terminal joiners and clamp them tighter to the rails.

Congratulations on the layout Joe. I have been away for quite awhile and didn't know you were building a railroad. I have been static for quite a long time rehabbing from reoccurring problems from a small stroke back in the day. I still have a degree of cognitive impairment and occasional vertigo but much better. Unfortunately all of your great Structure work for me has accumulated a layer of dust and my rails still have traces of ballasting glue and rail rust paint. I am limited in my tasks by hand tremors and fatigue but fortunately railpower and turnout wiring was done back in 2010. Hopefully I can soon get back to work and clean up the mess. I have a rolling walker for when my legs tire so moderate work is possible.

I look forward to watching your progress. 

Dewey

PS: I had to take up plumbing to hide all of my dangling cords/wires.  Fortunately the main  Service Panel is right below in the garage so in Jan. '10 I was able to snake up a #12-2w/grd  and lnstall a new single wall receptacle to supply the center.

Dewey:

I am glad you are ok.

The PVC piping is one sweet idea!

Joe

Did not wire as much track as I wanted to. I had to mostly work underneath the layout. The old layout design had all spurs connected  to one power district. In the new design the spurs are split between two power districts. So I had re-route wire under the control board to the various toggle switches.

I did manage to drop two more pairs of wires. I extended the yard up to a turnout and wired spur 1 to the control board (this is how I discovered my routing error above).

The spur contains a lighted bumper I made from wood. I have made both wood and plastic versions. I do have a bunch of Lionel lighted bumpers that I will be using for the time being till I build more of my own. I discovered that the lights on the Lionel bumpers are rated at 12 volts so have a very limited life span when connected directly to track voltage. I found red bulbs rated at 18 volts and am using these on both my bumpers and the Lionel bumpers. (Note - for the Lionel bumpers you need to remove the socket and the leaf springs so it is actually easier and cheaper to buy the unlighted versions). As shown below I connect the bulbs to the track using Atlas O joiners.

Everything  will be hidden once ballast is applied. Below is a picture of the bumper. The four vertical posts in the front are designed to fit in between the track ties so the bumper does not slide back when a locomotive hits it.

Since a forum member expressed interest in the split jaw connectors I thought I would add a little more info on how I make connections to them. the spilt jaw connectors come with a ring crimp connect. The normal method is to crimp a wire into the ring connect then attach the connect to the jaws. I want to make absolutely sure the wire never slips out of the crimp connect so I use ferrules. I first crimp the wire into the ferrule then I crimp the ferrule into the ring connect. Using this method the wire is not going anywhere.

Also if anyone is interested in building their own bumpers from wood or plastic see the attached file. If I install lights into the bumpers I use a Plastruct SX-4 flange upside down. I drill a hole to fit the top of the flange then glue it in place. The light bulb fits nicely inside the flange.

Did not get far this Sunday at all. I decided to delete a web page on my web site in the morning then spent 4 hours fixing the resulting mess that occurred with page navigation. I did manage to wire in one spur that will hold the locomotives. I made one change - deleted the Atlas O high speed turnouts between the locomotive track and the classification track. Didn't see the sense in the long length of the turnouts compromising the number of cars I could place on the classification track. Next week I will wire in the classification track and hopefully move onto the 4 way yard switch.

One thing I did learn - the Ross #4 yard crossing switch will not work with 054 or 072 Atlas turnouts. The yard switch is narrower then both. I did not have time to try them with Ross turnouts but I suspect the result would be the same. It appears you need Ross #4 turnouts and TR345 curves to make things fit. They work fine with the Ross 4 way but it looks like I will need to cut track to fit on one side.

Awesome looking layout. I may have missed it, but was wondering what the dimensions of your layout were? Looks like a lot of action going in a very well defined space!

Deuce:

It's not big - about 14 x 18

I will have two main lines if I want to watch trains go round and round but most of the layout is switching especially the left side which is part of John Allen's famous time-saver switching game.

I am still struggling with 'pick it here and drop it off there'. I have a lot of pick up here but not many drop it there.

Model Structures posted:

Deuce:

It's not big - about 14 x 18

I will have two main lines if I want to watch trains go round and round but most of the layout is switching especially the left side which is part of John Allen's famous time-saver switching game.

I am still struggling with 'pick it here and drop it off there'. I have a lot of pick up here but not many drop it there.

My logic for design is "how is the commodity handled" or how is the freight handled?   sources/suppliers to processors/distributors - to end user/retailers.

Then, pick it here and drop it there happens at each stop with fulls and empties.

Now, it would seem to depend of what kind of buildings that you have and where you place them.

I would view the dual mains as a main and a local that you can foul while picking here and dropping there.

The RR's functions (yard tracks and spurs, passing sidings) can be both.

Ok, after looking at you sidings in the center and the timesaver area it appears each pair would a be customer. The miner, logger, producer is in the yard already.

One cuts and builds a train in the yard, delivers in the proper order by dropping off the "fulls" and then collecting the "empties" on the other siding, proceeds and returns to the yard to the A/D track, where a switcher moves the cars around.

They magically get full and the customer empties theirs.

If a structure that you have is a producer, it doesn't matter. You take them empties from the yard and bring fulls back to get sent to some imaginary location.

The structures define the story, the action is the same - drop and pick at every location.

Model Structures posted:

Deuce:

It's not big - about 14 x 18

I will have two main lines if I want to watch trains go round and round but most of the layout is switching especially the left side which is part of John Allen's famous time-saver switching game.

I am still struggling with 'pick it here and drop it off there'. I have a lot of pick up here but not many drop it there.

Thanks. I decided to look up the Timesaver switching game, and found out that it can be employed in a smallish space. A bit more reading and I found the Inglenook Sidings Shunting puzzle, and I'll incorporate that into my layout. Thanks!

Thanks for the comments All!

I wired in the second spur during the evenings this week. Next up is the Ross 4-way. I had this wired in on the last layout so wiring will be fairly straight forward this time around. Last hook up I had non-derail on the four output rails plus three DZ 1011's (you also need the DZ-1008 relay) for turnout direction. Once I have everything wired and working I will post the electrical schematic I made. I have connection schematics for various signal and detector options I have used in the past (MTH, Lionel, Z-Stuff). I have posted them before but if anyone is interested and if I have the combo you want I can post again. I did buy a bunch of Atlas O #200 snap relays to use with Atlas O switch motors and dwarf signals but have not tried any as yet.

Many moons ago when I started my first layout (circa 2008) I invested in some Lionel IR detectors - never tried the MTH verasion. For the most part they worked just fine and most are still working but as they quit I am replacing with Z-Stuff DZ1075's. This is solely due to the size difference which is phenomenal and so far the DZ detectors have been bullet proof with Lionel and MTH signals.

Decided to take a 'break' form track wiring today. Instead I worked on some lighted bumpers plus two Gargraves decoupling tracks.

I purchased two of the newer designed decouplers (the short version). When I read the instructions for the decoupling track I got confused since one paragraph stated no center rail connection and other paragraph talked about extending center rail connection for locomotive/car rollers. I called and talked to a rep from Gargraves who set me straight. There indeed is no center rail connection however one can extend the amount of time a roller connects to the center rail by installing a track pin and butted it up against the plastic enclosure for the magnet. The pin needs to shortened to accommodate the short run.

I took this a step further and did the following.

Below is the track as it comes in the package (I removed two pins)

I took a center rail from a short piece of Gargraves track, glued it in place then cut it with a Dremel tool (cut off wheel).

I then sanded the rough edges with disc sanding attachment

This the final result. I think it looks neater then simply having a pin hanging out in mid air.

I spent the rest of the afternoon wiring up some custom and Lionel track bumpers for lights. I found 18 volt red bulbs from Cir-Kit concepts.

I drilled out the center hole to 1/4 inch then installed a Plastruct SX-4 flange, after which I painted the Lionel bumper black

The bulb needs to go through the flange before the Atlas track rail joiners are soldered on.

Had to trim the wires down to length

Soldering the wires to the rail joiners are easy as long as the wires and the rail joiners are tinnedfirst.

Broke my rule - Sundays are reserved for my layout not customer work. I wanted to finish up some building flats (see Sunday Scenic Showcase).

My plan was to wire in the Ross 4-way. I will do so this W/E. In the meantime I have attached some 'circuit diagrams' I made. They cover switch control, non-derail, and turnout position indicator lights. As you can see I use Z-stuff 1008 relays and their beautiful 1011 detector (just make sure you tape over the IR sensor). I have wired the 4-way once before so am close to 100% confident the diagrams are good.

Joe

Worked on connecting the Ross 4-way. 5 hours to connect one switch motor!
I spent about 2 hours under the layout moving terminal boards dedicated to the turnout and re-routing power/ground wires plus wires from the toggle switches. It took about 1/2 hour to run the three wires from one switch machine (had to extend lengths etc.). The rest of the time was spent figuring out why the switch machine wasn't working. Turns out:

 - the multimeter I was using (Sears Craftsman nearly as old as me) is finally starting to play games.
 - I have a separate power supply (power / ground) system for ITADS and turnouts. I connected the ground to the wrong ground system.
 - I relearned a lesson about Ross switch motors. I run both Atlas O and Ross turnouts. To help the Atlas O switch machines run cooler and not burn out as quick as they are prone to, I add rectifying diodes in line for the power wire. Diodes do not work with Ross switch motors and in fact make them non-operable. I had diodes hanging off the terminal boards but they are for the non-derail feature but I happily hooked them in circuit with the switch machines.

I have attached a corrected version of one of the sheets I earlier posted.

Next Sunday I am going to wire in Z-Stuff dwarf signals / 1008 relays to indicate turnout position.

Joe

Model Structures posted:

Decided to take a 'break' form track wiring today. Instead I worked on some lighted bumpers plus two Gargraves decoupling tracks.

I purchased two of the newer designed decouplers (the short version). When I read the instructions for the decoupling track I got confused since one paragraph stated no center rail connection and other paragraph talked about extending center rail connection for locomotive/car rollers. I called and talked to a rep from Gargraves who set me straight. There indeed is no center rail connection however one can extend the amount of time a roller connects to the center rail by installing a track pin and butted it up against the plastic enclosure for the magnet. The pin needs to shortened to accommodate the short run.

I took this a step further and did the following.

Below is the track as it comes in the package (I removed two pins)

I took a center rail from a short piece of Gargraves track, glued it in place then cut it with a Dremel tool (cut off wheel).

I then sanded the rough edges with disc sanding attachment

This the final result. I think it looks neater then simply having a pin hanging out in mid air.

I spent the rest of the afternoon wiring up some custom and Lionel track bumpers for lights. I found 18 volt red bulbs from Cir-Kit concepts.

I drilled out the center hole to 1/4 inch then installed a Plastruct SX-4 flange, after which I painted the Lionel bumper black

The bulb needs to go through the flange before the Atlas track rail joiners are soldered on.

Had to trim the wires down to length

Soldering the wires to the rail joiners are easy as long as the wires and the rail joiners are tinnedfirst.

Joe

Is the item number for the bulb CK1010-33B?

Thanks

Mike

Mike:

Yep - CK1010-33B