New Layout Design

I have two types of decoupling tracks on my layout. I had bought the Atlas O version a long time back then recently bought the Gargraves version. I really like the Gargraves track because its magnet is a lot longer than the Atlas O making it much easier to spot a car on the track for decoupling.

Below is the Gargraves wiring diagram. Note track power does not flow through the track so you will need power drops on both sides. I plan on making little 'milepost' signs to aid in spotting cars on each track.

Below are photos of the two tracks

I have all my signals placed on the layout and am getting ready to wire however I spent the week slowly pulling out the locomotives I have been storing for going on 5 years now, oil and greasing and making sure they work. The neat thing is that it has been so long that when I open a box I actually go "gee I did not know I had that"!

Some of my diesel locomotives

I have 3 MTH Cantilever lights - see below

I set up a bench test to make sure my wiring is correct. I have Lionel ITADS and Z-Stuff 1075 detectors. Both worked with the cantilevers.

I believe my Lionel ITADS are the old version. I don't have so can't vouch for the new version but please see below

The schematic is good. I have 2 of 3 lights connected.

@Joe Fauty posted:

The schematic is good. I have 2 of 3 lights connected.

Joe - thanks for posting the wiring diagrams for the Itads!

-Greg

Thanks Greg - next up is a Lionel Main Line and  a MTH 3 Over. Once I get the wiring down I will post the schematics.

After that I have Z-Stuff signals and DZ-1075 detectors which I will standardize on.

I wired a single mast Lionel signal (6-24101) to a DZ-1075 detector and an MTH 3 over 3 signal (30-11024) to both a Lionel 153 detector and to a DZ-1075 detector). I decided to wire the top and bottom separately even though I don't think this is prototypical. I have the signal in front of a turnout wired such that if a train exists track 1 the top aspect turns red for track 2 and vice versa.

The three wiring diagrams are shown below

Next week I am wiring DZ-1060 signals to both DZ-1075 and DZ-1070 detectors I have in stock. Note the DZ-1070 only works with Z-Stuff signals.

Though I did not do this the wiring diagram for a Lionel signal to a Lionel 153 detector is shown below

Both of your ITAD diagrams indicate they are for the "older" version.  Don't think you meant to do that.

Chuck

Chuck:
Hopefully below is what you are talking about.
Unless I have it backwards I have the older versions of the Lionel ITAD. Not sure what year the design changed but the input wiring is now different. Please see below for the differences.

I just finished wiring a Z-Stuff 1060 signal to a Z-Stuff 1070 detector. Below is the wiring diagram per Z-Stuff instructions. Below it is a wiring diagram that actually worked. In this instance I had to connect the white wire instead of the gray wire to make the signal function properly.

Next Sunday I have two more DZ-1060  signals to wire but this time to DZ-1075 detectors.

I have been reading some old articles written by Frank Ellison, John Allen and John Armstrong more on this in an upcoming post) with respect to track work. Based on these articles I changed my east yard to make it more simple. In the previous design the scrap yard was difficult to get into and out of and because of the turnouts I was limited in the number of flat cars I could push in or take out. The new yard design gives me straight access to the yard with a long spur plus I have gained a caboose track.

Below is the original layout - note the scrap yard track with the crane - bottom right

In the modified layout design the scrap yard now has its own spur and I gain a caboose track along side of it.

To get 'new' structure ideas for my layout and business I went back in time. Frank Ellison is a famous model railroader who wrote a bunch of structure articles for a now defunct magazine called Model Builder in the 1940's. These magazines are available on the internet for free. Some of his structures have been updated and re-issued by Brennan's Model Railroading. I have two kits I plan on building soon. I also plan on designing and scratch building my own.
Frank Ellison then John Allen started writing track operations planning articles for Model Railroader in the late 1930's through early 1950's (John Armstrong followed later with mostly track plans for prototype railroad operation). F. Ellison wrote a series of articles on various aspects of layout planning and building, scenery and operation. What interested me the most was his series of articles on how to set up spurs and sidings so there was a purpose for their existence. He wrote articles on where to fit industries on spurs and how to switch cars into and out of the spurs. In 1944 he wrote his famous series called "The Art of Model Railroading" which was reprinted in 1964.
To paraphrase Ellison and Allen a good model railroad must have a 'come from' and a 'go to' operation otherwise one is just running trains (no offense to 'loopers'). Even if sidings are constructed but no specific business is located to 'go to' on those sidings you can still drop of a box car, hopper or tank car or all of them at the same time since the spur lacks a purpose for those cars being there. Of the many examples of 'come from' / 'go to' one would be an output terminal at a refinery that loads tank cars with diesel, gasoline,heating oil or propane. The tank cars can then be dropped off at spurs containing a bulk oil dealer, a propane tank farm or a gasoline/diesel dealer. You can simply stop there or go further. For instance the heating oil dealer can load trucks with heating oil for delivery to city or residential neighborhoods. A grain elevator to a feed or flour mill to a freight dealer is another good example. I am still planning and building industries for the spurs. More on this in an upcoming posts.
From John Armstrong's articles and books I learned the necessity of double ended passing sidings so I can park a freight consist while a passenger train speeds by. I also learned that my yard layout was inefficient and changed it (previous post). I made my passenger station track a double ended siding also. So I can park the passenger train at the station and let the freight proceed on the same track and perhaps cross over to the outside main for an excursion around the country side. Or I can do the opposite and let the passenger train cross over to the outside main and go 'cross country' while I make switching moves (pick ups and drop offs) for the freight train at the various spurs.

Below is a partial list of books and articles I read.
1. John Armstrong "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" - Model Railroader Books
2. Frank Ellison "Fast Freight" Model Railroader Dec 1949
3. Frank Ellison "Freight Yards" Model Railroader Jan 1950
4. Frank Ellison "Way Freight" Model Railroader Feb 1950
5. Frank Ellison "Route Switching" Model Railroader Mar 1950 - an excellent article
6. Frank Ellison "Where to Locate Your Industries" Model Railroader Jun 1950 - another excellent article.
7. Frank Ellison "Art of Model Railroading" Model Railroader Mar to Aug 1944

Joe,

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, but the ITAD descriptions I was talking about are in your 7/11 post where you show two signals (1 MTH & 1 Lionel) wired to DZ-1075 detectors and two signals (1 MTH & 1 Lionel) wired to ITADs.  Both ITAD descriptions say they represent wiring for the "OLDER" ITAD product, but I think one of them is supposed to be the newer product.  Or, are they both supposed to be for the "OLDER" ITAD product and just showing the differences between an MTH signal hook-up and a Lionel signal hook-up?  What's confusing is that one description references a hook-up diagram for "NEWER" ITAD product "on the next page."

I whole-heartedly concur with your reading recommendations and track plan changes; "operating" can be so much more fun than "running."  However, the 1964 version of "The Art of Model Railroading" is actually a re-do of an earlier version by the same name.  Don't remember the year(s) of the earlier version, but I know the earlier version track plan had a turntable at Raymondale and the later version did not.  I will bet, just like you, Ralph made changes after initial construction to improve operations, just like you!

Chuck

Chuck:
I see what you mean - I should have taken out the words "see next page". All the wiring diagrams are for the older version. The 7/12 post shows the difference between the two versions.

You are right about the date - Ellison started the series in Mar 1944. I will edit my post to reflect this.
Joe

Thanks, Joe; I get it now.

Chuck

@Joe Fauty posted:

To get 'new' structure ideas for my layout and business I went back in time. Frank Ellison is a famous model railroader who wrote a bunch of structure articles for a now defunct magazine called Model Builder in the 1940's. These magazines are available on the internet for free. Some of his structures have been updated and re-issued by Brennan's Model Railroading. I have two kits I plan on building soon. I also plan on designing and scratch building my own.
Frank Ellison then John Allen started writing track operations planning articles for Model Railroader in the late 1940's and early 1950's (John Armstrong followed later with mostly track plans for prototype railroad operation). F. Ellison wrote a series of articles on various aspects of layout planning and building, scenery and operation. What interested me the most was his series of articles on how to set up spurs and sidings so there was a purpose for their existence. He wrote articles on where to fit industries on spurs and how to switch cars into and out of the spurs. In 1944 he wrote his famous series called "The Art of Model Railroading" which was reprinted in 1964.
To paraphrase Ellison and Allen a good model railroad must have a 'come from' and a 'go to' operation otherwise one is just running trains (no offense to 'loopers'). Even if sidings are constructed but no specific business is located to 'go to' on those sidings you can still drop of a box car, hopper or tank car or all of them at the same time since the spur lacks a purpose for those cars being there. Of the many examples of 'come from' / 'go to' one would be an output terminal at a refinery that loads tank cars with diesel, gasoline,heating oil or propane. The tank cars can then be dropped off at spurs containing a bulk oil dealer, a propane tank farm or a gasoline/diesel dealer. You can simply stop there or go further. For instance the heating oil dealer can load trucks with heating oil for delivery to city or residential neighborhoods. A grain elevator to a feed or flour mill to a freight dealer is another good example. I am still planning and building industries for the spurs. More on this in an upcoming posts.
From John Armstrong's articles and books I learned the necessity of double ended passing sidings so I can park a freight consist while a passenger train speeds by. I also learned that my yard layout was inefficient and changed it (previous post). I made my passenger station track a double ended siding also. So I can park the passenger train at the station and let the freight proceed on the same track and perhaps cross over to the outside main for an excursion around the country side. Or I can do the opposite and let the passenger train cross over to the outside main and go 'cross country' while I make switching moves (pick ups and drop offs) for the freight train at the various spurs.

Below is a partial list of books and articles I read.
1. John Armstrong "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" - Model Railroader Books
2. Frank Ellison "Fast Freight" Model Railroader Dec 1949
3. Frank Ellison "Freight Yards" Model Railroader Jan 1950
4. Frank Ellison "Way Freight" Model Railroader Feb 1950
5. Frank Ellison "Route Switching" Model Railroader Mar 1950 - an excellent article
6. Frank Ellison "Where to Locate Your Industries" Model Railroader Jun 1950 - another excellent article.
7. Frank Ellison "Art of Model Railroading" Model Railroader Mar to Aug 1944

Joe among these articles which did you find to be the most interesting / enlightening? Where to locate your industries sounds very interesting/helpful, was it written from the perspecitive of being prototypical or how to optimize your layout?  Lastly, did you just hunt down old issues for these articles or is there another online resource?  Thank You in advance, Jim

Jim:
With respect to the Model Railroader articles one needs to be a subscriber then add on digital access.
With respect to the old Modeler Builder mags these are free - http://original.trainlife.com/magazines.

As for articles -
Frank Ellison "Route Switching" Model Railroader Mar 1950 - an excellent article
Frank Ellison "Where to Locate Your Industries" Model Railroader Jun 1950 - another excellent article.

I look as these articles as to how to improve my layout so I can run my trains with a purpose in mind.  I believe Ellison's Delta Lines was freelanced but set up for 'prototypical' operations.

Jim:
I sent an email to A.Arnold asking if I can post reprints of magazine articles. We'll see what he says.
Joe

Update - re-printing even internet 'free' articles may violate copy right laws so I can't post any article. What I can say is that https://trainlife.com/pages/mo...der-magazine-archive has an archive of Model Builder magazine articles on the building of just about every structure F. Ellison made.

Ran into a big problem with my layout covered in https://ogrforum.com/...nal-from-legacy-base.

So far I know one powermaster is dead but I don't know why. I also know that the power/ground connection to my control board (toggle switches for spurs) is all of a sudden causing an issue but again I don't know why. I have a new powermaster on order from ChasRo. Funny thing is if the wires are connected to one the two working powermasters the track will turn on for about two seconds then turn off. No warning lights on powermaster (the red light usually blinks fast in case of short) and the 180w power brick does not trip.

Bench tested the Z-Stuff 1060 signal with the DZ-1075 detector. The wiring diagram seems to work fine.

My original diagram had the blue wire connected to power but Dennis Zander said to simply ignore it.

@Joe Fauty posted:

Jim:
I sent an email to A.Arnold asking if I can post reprints of magazine articles. We'll see what he says.
Joe

Update - re-printing even internet 'free' articles may violate copy right laws so I can't post any article. What I can say is that https://trainlife.com/pages/mo...der-magazine-archive has an archive of Model Builder magazine articles on the building of just about every structure F. Ellison made.

Thank You, I really appreciate your help/guidance.  Jim

This looks to be a very interesting thread, cool layout, so I need to begin reading from page 1. Soon I’ll catch up. Great ideas. Happy Railroading Everyone

Took some time to 'recreate' F. Ellison's two towns of Raymondale and Donaldson. The track work is approx. so is the size. His article "Where to Locate Your Industries" talks all about this.

If I only had the room.................................

Ok, I’ve read page 1 and your workmanship is great. Your layout is a great size, not overly big, not small, a great size that might allow actually finishing. Your track plans great, comments by on lookers are very interesting. I read on, great thread. Happy Railroading Everyone

Well, I know the feeling of having thoughts of moving to a new home, my wife wanted us to move to a smaller home last year, Wow, what a situation she placed me in, thinking that it would be a down sizing on our budget, but, I talked her into staying as a new home, half the size would cost more than our present home. We built our home 25 years ago, it’s been well maintained, and all I need to do is sell a bunch of over stock trains. Great thread, glad you didn’t have to move…. Relief… Happy Railroading Everyone (I really like the play by play, so to speak, of your layout progression)

Larry, I’m glad you were able to find the facts on moving to a new home.  I would hate to see you have to tear down the layout and have to squeeze into a smaller place

Yes Mark, thank you, it was a relief to me when she realized that downsizing would not really benefit her, or our family, our neighborhood is very safe, we are basically debt free, we are ok health wise. Now, this thread is very educational, lots of interesting wiring diagrams, very well organized. Thank you Joe Fauty for your detailed descriptions on building your layout. Happy Railroading Everyone

Thanks Larry

I have one signal left to install today. I had two DZ-1060's and DZ-1075's however the yellow wire on one D-1060 broke (my fault) so I opted to take the black electrical wire off the sensor and install the signal by simply connecting power and com to the respective terminals. I will use the DZ-1075 with the the last signal.

I was going to start wiring lights next but decided to hold off since I don't know how I am going to layout my town streets yet nor do I have a design for the section that will hold my refinery. I still need to build structures for the town and surroundings plus the refinery so I will add the assembly of these to this thread.
I will wire the lights for the buildings I have on the layout but that is just simple power/gnd connections so not worth reporting on this thread other to say all my lights are 12-18VDC/AC, even the Model Power/Lionel LED versions. I have a dedicated 10W 12VDC power supply which should run all lights on the layout. I have toyed with the idea of adding one of the various lighting systems like Woodland Scenics Just Plug or another manufacturer's (can't remember who) Genie system but I am already set up with a system. I know the Just Plug system starts out at 24VAC and by the time one gets to the actual output for the lights it ends up at 16VDC. The lights have resistors to knock the voltage down to the required 3VDC. I may try one light with my system by simply cutting off the plug it comes with and see how it does with the 12VDC

In the meantime I am going to run trains for the enjoyment plus figure out where I need to add more power drops before I commit to ballast. Normally one would 'follow nature' and do scenery first then ballast. Since I will need to walk and crawl over the layout to add ballast, if I do it this way a lot of scenery is going to be messed up. So ballast comes first.
Joe

A while back I bought some Gargraves gantry track then a Lionel TMCC Gantry Crane (6-82097) and programmed it as an accessory on my Cab2. Once I finished with the last signal I decided to wire a Lionel TMCC Crane sounds Work House (6-82035) I had purchased. The work house comes with a three wire set up connected to 3-pin male connector. I wanted to connect the work house directly to track power in the same power district that the crane is connected to. So I simply cut off the connector, stripped the wires and connected red/black to track. I left the white wire alone. Neither the instruction manual or Lionel's web site explain the function of that third wire. I programmed the work house with the same ACC # as the crane - turned on power and WOW!

The work house has a constant back ground noise (you can turn the sound off with the remote) but also contains different sounds depending which function of the crane you choose to operate. There is even dialog programmed in. I was not really a fan of operating accessories. This is my first one. I can say I will be having a lot of fun with this.

A also took some time to print some ID tags (Avery white full sheet shipping labels) to identify my track spurs and accessory lighting. For example I labeled the spur that goes to a wholesale bread and bakery shop as "Bakery". The toggle switches for the spurs is on the bottom right.
The accessory switches (Atlas O SPST on/off) are top right. The toggle switches on the left are for the turnouts and the gray and black switches top left are Gargraves/Atlas O for uncoupling tracks. The control board slides in and out of the table.

Looks great

I like what you're doing & the information you share. I am especially grateful for the info on placing industries & on giving an actual purpose to the layout;.

Down towards the bottom of the layout I a two track spur which is dedicated to a modern looking 2-stall diesel shed.

This will be my first project (please bear in mind I have only Saturdays to work on this). Back in 2015 while
Rich Redman still owned Korber Models he put together the pieces for two custom diesel shed kits based on the Korber #1032 shed design based on a design a friend and myself submitted. my kit has been sitting on a shelf all this time during construction of my table and track work. Below is a photo of the kit my friend built. Some extra material was used to make a small 1-story office in the back of the shed.

I will start this project next week end.

I ran a locomotive real slow over all the track and had no issues (hope so since I dropped power about every 3 inches......ah just kidding).

I have started the Korber-Pecos diesel shed build. I have built these kits for customers so learned some stuff that I will describe as the build proceeds. Rich had put together an instruction sheet that is very helpful. The shed was designed with 6 side walls but available space limited the length to 5 walls. I put all the pieces on my table saw bench to make sure everything was there. You can see how the building will look from the bottom  left of the photo below. There will be a brick concourse at both levels. From the upper left you can see the back wall. The left bottom wall will be brick. the right side will be a entrance to an office.  

Below in the fronttwo walls. As you can see I will need to cut away the bottom to make an entrance. I will also need to build up the wall height using the bottom pilasters since there will be no foundation wall attached.

The back wall is shown below

I spent most of the afternoon cutting flash and mold nibs off all the pieces and sanding the edges. I then glued 2 wall units together. the corner wall on the left is what the completed wall will look like with windows and brick installed. Note the brick inserts are all one width. The insert for the top course is used as is. However since the foundation has a lip that overlaps the first floor window wall the brick insert needs to be trimmed to fit.

I trimmed the nubs on the sides of the walls so they would fit together. The instructions say to build the wall units separately, glue them together then add the pilasters. I learned to deviate from this as shown below. If you attempt to trim and sand to make the walls absolutely flush with each other and glue them together then the pilasters won't fit and you will end up having to trim them to width. I have learned to trim the nubs just enough so the walls will fit however I use the pilasters as spacers when gluing the walls together. I fit the walls together then glue in the pilasters while pushing the walls flush with the pilasters.

I leave the top pilaster at its original length and glue it in first. I then glue the foundation pilaster at the bottom.
Because this is a two story building I need to trim the middle plaster to length to fit.

Next week I will try to finish gluing all the remaining walls together. From there I will assemble the 4 walls into a structure then start painting everything.

Right now it looks like:
- Caribbean Sand for the base structure (I may make this darker to look more like concrete rather than plaster)
- Dark red for windows and the door
- Dark red for the brick with joint compound for mortar.

Joe, thank you for the step by step on the diesel shed.  It seems no matter what we build, we have to learn from it and could make a second one better and easier.  It looks like a neat building.

Did some more work on the diesel shed. I have both 2-panel ends and one 5-panel side glued up. I will have photos tomorrow when the clamps (ie bricks) come off.

I have two Cab2 remotes (not sure why.............). Anyway the cradle for one is nonfunctional except for a re-charging function that has not worked since day 2 or 3. I'm too lazy to send it in for repair. So I decided to remove the cradle from the power control board. This freed up space for me to re-arrange power supplies and powermasters to look more orderly. The small Lionel Accessory Transformer powers all the turnouts along with DZ-1011R's used to indicate switch position. The samll black Atlas O transformer at the top powers all my ITADS. The Aluminum transformer is a 10W 12VDC power supply for all lights.

I have become a Frank Ellison / John Allen 'groupie' reading stuff they published in the 1930's-1950's. The electronics has certainly changed however the philosophy is timeless. Frank Ellison wrote a series of articles about industries in three particular towns - Donaldson, Raymondale and Filmore and how they interconnected. In particular three articles "Where to Place your Industries' and 'Route Switching and 'The fitness of Things' inspired me to move my structures around, repurpose some and gave me a list of structures I need to build. The new building placement plan is below.

The general strategy is below. (apologies for the length).

Structures to build

Diesel Shed
REA building
Rural Grain elevator
Feed Mill
Small Parts Factory
Grocery Warehouse
Wholesale Bakery

Industries

Grain

The Rural Grain elevator is located at the end of the division point yard on track that doubles as the arrival/ departure classification track. Empty hopper cars are spotted by the elevator to be filled. Assumption is local farmers deliver different grains to back of elevator which are loaded into hopper cars.
Way freight picks up loaded hopper cars and delivers to Feed Mill where it is turned into flour and feed. Way freight picks up empty hoppers and delivers to division point yard where it then picks up empty box cars to deliver to feed mill. Feed Mill loads boxcars with sacks for delivery to Wholesale Bakery and to Ellison Dry Goods. Way freight picks up loaded boxcars and drops off loaded hoppers. Way freight delivers box cars to Bakery and Dry Goods stores. It picks up empty boxcars then returns to the division point yard with the empty boxcars and hoppers.

Refinery

Empty tank cars are spotted at loading platform where gasoline, heating oil and propane are loaded. Way freight picks up loaded tank cars and delivers to bulk fuel distributor. The distributor loads tank trucks with various fuels to deliver to diesel yard, gas station, factories etc

Food Stuff

It is assumed local farmers deliver vegetables and fruit to cannery. Cannery processes frozen fresh fruit and vegetables and cans the rest. Way freight picks up iced reefers at Union Ice Co. and delivers to Patterson Cannery. Cannery loads frozen food into one reefer and canned foodstuff into another. Way freight delivers frozen food to Grocery Warehouse and canned foodstuff to Ellison Dry Goods. It picks up empty reefers and delivers back to Union Ice.

Manufactures

The Small Parts Factory makes various widgets and replacement parts for John Deere tractors. These are loaded onto flatcars and box cars which have been spotted next to an Open Air Loading Dock. The loading dock also serves as a team track for other local businesses to load their product such as timber. The Way freight picks up the loaded cars and delivers to Allen Freight & Transport where they are packed and loaded into box cars. Way freight picks up empties and returns them to the Small Parts factory. Loaded box cars are ready for the next Through Freight to come through.

Passenger Service

There is room for only one passenger station on the layout so I will park a passenger train on that siding. To make room for the Way freight deliveries to bakery, dry goods and Freight House I will move the passenger train out, switch to the outside main and let it ‘transverse the country side’ for a while. There is a large siding on the inside main where I can park the way freight so it can wait for the passenger train to vacate the station siding.

Joe,

Do the Frank Ellison concepts result in a layout that mimics life or is it a way to have a layout with better "play value"?

Thanks

I think the answer is "both."  Creating a model world that causes you to operate like a real railroad, IMO, gives most adult modelers the most play value.  But that doesn't necessarily hold true for youthful modelers.  If the equipment had been readily available back in Frank's day, I bet he would have included operating bridges, lumber yards, cranes, etc. to hold the youthful modeler's interest, all while they learned how a "real" railroad operates (scheduling, servicing customers, servicing equipment, etc.).

But, if I remember correctly, Frank also built in some hidden connections for the times he (and visitors) might have just wanted to see some trains run.

Chuck

I agree with Chuck. Nothing I have read so far indicates how Frank Ellison viewed his layout. I know he had operating sessions as we know them today with a lot of he called route switching just like the real railroads. I believe his Delta Lines was not prototypical but freelanced. However he set it up to act as an actual railroad 'business'.

Joe

As mentioned above I managed to assemble one 5-panel side and the 2-panel front and back.

There are mold pin indents on the back of the peaked and flat tops that will show after the roof is installed. I filled these in with putty and will sand them later on. The seam where each wall meets will be covered by an H-column. I plan on laminating concrete sheets to styrene to cover the area at the bottom of each panel where the mold pins are.