New Legacy ATSF GP-7

Ouch, these colors are kind of off compared to another of Lionel’s ATSF models (GP30).  I guess it could pass for heavily faded?

Another Lionel color goof?  What's the count up to now?

Red's, yellows, and oranges, have all been overly bright the last few years. Some to the point of being neon. Lionel can't seem to get a handle on the issue.

I realize that the box end states "GP7", however those beautifully done vertical handrail stanchions (U shaped steel channels) are for a GP9.

They are all beautiful and remind me of the beasts we waited to pass so we could drive over the tracks in my hometown in Tucson....

@RickO posted:

Red's, yellows, and oranges, have all been overly bright the last few years. Some to the point of being neon. Lionel can't seem to get a handle on the issue.

Not trying to hijack this thread, believe me!

But, isn't the mantra 'The color is wrong...again!' becoming rather pervasive throughout forum threads/reviews of new products in this hobby lately???  Not just limited to Lionel, either.

To what end?

Does anyone understand how color, as a specification to the manufacturer (far east enterprise, typically), is defined.  Sample-brewed?  Batch-brewed?  Approved according to the original spec at each step?  etc., etc., blah, blah?  How many sets of eyes/opinions or techo-marvel machines/analyzers are involved at each step.  If an actual paint chip is provided by the 1:1 folks as a standard, how many Color-Watchers from Hawtch-Hawtcher (ala Dr. Seuss, bless his soul) are involved in the Chip-to-Ship process of creating a 1:48 model that achieves 100% customer color approval/satisfaction?

It can boggle the mind.  Thankless task, this colorization thing.

You're right...Lionel CAN'T get a handle on this issue.  Neither can anyone else.

Phooey.  Guess I'll go run some trains that make me happy, pour another drink, enjoy the sunny day, kiss the dog, take the wife for a walk,...or is it the other way around?...,  and wish God's richest blessings on all who are color-blind (and admit it!) or haven't had their cataracts corrected yet.

KD (a.k.a., Lucas Gudinov)

Looking at the photos the GP30 looks a little dark on the yellow.  It's never easy to tell through a photograph and the posted on the internet.  However, ATSF Yellow did fade at a fairly rapid rate.  Yellows tended to do that.  The black tread is prototypical I believe.  I'd have to consult my ATSF Bibles. 

I’m a big Santa Fe fan and think it looks great! Hope you enjoy it.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Looking at the photos the GP30 looks a little dark on the yellow.  It's never easy to tell through a photograph and the posted on the internet.  However, ATSF Yellow did fade at a fairly rapid rate.  Yellows tended to do that.  The black tread is prototypical I believe.  I'd have to consult my ATSF Bibles.

The room is pretty dim.  The yellow on the GP30 is a lot brighter than it looks, but so is the GP7.  Honestly looks almost neon yellow.  Isn’t anywhere close to any of my other ATSF models.

And I would be interested to learn about the black tread on the walkways.  Ive never heard of anything like that, and every picture I’ve ever seen has had blue walkways, but I could be wrong.

• Hello, guys-- I made one of my rare engine purchases, the first sister of this Santa Fe GP7 #2676; other numbers being 20133151 (SKU?), 2133151 (2020 V II catalog #).  In 2007, a similarly described "New York Central" (including "LEGACY") "GP7 Diesel#5268" obtained a parts list by using that particular order in the search line of Lionelsupport, Replacement Parts.  The last 3 digits of the Maine Central sisters numbers are next in order, 171/172, where here the 151 (/152)  is usually the senior number and thus used for a single parts list for the group.  My "find by accident" procedure, tho running close to 100% success elsewhere,  failed miserably.  No exploded parts diagram.
• Thing is, Owner's Manual 20133151250---11/20 seems to have not been totally updated:  At Page 9, the sketch showing the location of the 3 control switches cannot possibly be the location on the Maine Central adapted version of this GP7 series.  i put aside my cold chisel as i saw the manual dismissed this situation by noting that the sketch was merely illustrative of the concealment principal.  However, the smoke generator must be filled, and there is no way to run both sisters at the same time, in remote control, without throwing these switches.
• iR transmitter is not mentioned.  Checked, and it is mentioned in the catalog.  Is this another Hudson without marker lights...

Now surely it cannot be true that with all the learned talk of the proper "yellow" for display purposes, surely one among you must be running this engine type, and can tell me how it is done.  Altho, I admit it is almost idiotic to expose all that crisp detail to damage...  --Frank

Almost forgot...  I actually know something about painting steel to get protection against rusting, particularly long-lasting protection,  the pigment in the paint has to have a certain degree of chemical bond to the underlying steel.  The VOC regulations of the sixty's forced a change to water-based paint on GMD engines in Canada.  I suppose at that time finished engines could not be imported to Canada, so they came in primer.  The Canadian "factory" was actually a paint shed I think (it was really small).  It was in London, Ontario, in the city itself, and IIRC in a residential area.  So a water- based paint was needed for primer and surface.

At the same time, I had designed a lot of bridges in the States, and the red lead primers (mostly steel bridges in the east then) were a real pain at times.  I remember going under a shrouded re-paint site one day and coming out the other side with red dots on my MGA.   I  can still see the scene, altho I've forgotten where it was.  So lead got banned, good riddance.  Then VOC in the States spread gradually, putting an end to oil-based paints.  On bridges this meant a lot of research; Maryland settled on six satisfactory colors, and would alternate several in a row.  Then we began to use weathering steel as pier setbacks increased because it was a high-strength steel at little added cost.  But it had an adherence rust, and rust stains got all over the concrete piers.  So Maryland began to hang brick facades on the outer beams for the colonial look.  I suppose using alloy high strength steel that could be painted was a worse expense.  These were just policy decisions.  I only had to know what the policies were.

We all know UP's "Armour" yellow.  It's the Lionel color of 1950  for it.  I actually saw a freshly painted UP engine about 1972 that was the correct color... or was it 2008?  But Lionel kept asking for paint chips, and of course they got the new water-based paint, and most of the time I could see that UP no longer avoided that wrong yellow tinge.  The human eye can distinguish about 10,000 different colors, which is al wider range than photography and printing can deal with.  Then there is the effect of the illuminating light.  I got involved in a room for evaluating whether stamps were being printed in the specified colors.  Only in the last 2 years did I actually have to reproduce a color remembered from 64 years ago, from a print by Kodak from a Kodachrome 10 slide taken Easter 1955 of the family house in Tripoli, Libya.  Each was aged by about half that span, or over 30 years each.  My working tool was the scan feature of a Brother printer, on an 8x10 enlargement.  I was able to get close to a 300 line per inch image for printing a 3-inch-high copy of the originally 1" high slide,  and at the same time have this printer apply 2 steps of color correction (of 3 steps) to the faded sky.  I can't understand why no mention of stops was made, or why it could only be applied to 2 of the three printing colors.  It made a picture that was good for the article, even tho by memory I knew that the faded sky was still a small bit off.  (The editor had spent time in next-door Tunisia in the Peace Corps, so he made extra space for this picture.)  --Frank