Someone mentioned a noticeable size difference in the new Berks compared to Lionel's' recent scale models of the past several years. We had the handsome Erie 3315 from 2003 and really liked it. Beautiful locomotive with a veritable wealth of detail. Can someone post a couple of side-by-side comparison photos please?
I gather that there are different sized prototypes?
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I think the difference is that these new berkshires are the old k-line molds. I believe they used the original lionel berk's measurements in the catolog listing like they did with the mikados.
A few things need to be mentioned. The Erie 3300s were much larger locomotives than the prototypes represented by Lionel's newest Berkshire. Among the many differences were the larger boiler and longer frame of the Erie locomotives. The 3300s featured a more hulking appearance due to generous clearances resulting from the railroad's six foot gauge heritage. These clearances also made Erie the preferred route for high and wide shipments.
Here's a photo of the actual Erie 3315:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/...co/erie-s3315lbb.jpg
That said, Lionel's version of the 3315 was not an accurate rendition of the prototype as it was merely a redecorated Nickel Plate model.
I hope this helps.
Bob
I gather that there are different sized prototypes?
Yes, the new k-line berks are modeled after the early berkshires which were "beefed up mikados" The Lionel tooled berks you speak of model later berkshires i.e. nkp 765, pere marquette etc. These are more powerful and larger in nearly every aspect, driver diameter 69" as opposed to 63", larger boiler, tender etc. 24" for the k line tooled berks, 26" for the Lionel tooled berks, from end of the scale front coupler to the rear electrocoupler. These pictures aren't great but they should give you an idea.
A couple of years ago i thought my K-Line Berkshire (as noted above, same tooling as the new Lionel) looked undersized next to other steam engines, so I looked up the prints and measured it. It's within a few scale inches of correct in all dimensions. It's just a smaller locomotive than the later Berks. As Rick O mentions above, the original demo Lima Berkshire was basically a big Mikado with a greatly enlarged firebox. It had 63" drivers. The later Berks were much larger, with bigger drivers to take advantage of the much greater steaming capacity at higher speeds provided by the biger firebox.
Thanks a lot guys for the good information. This is one of the great things about this forum - just look at the interesting things in these few posts about the models and especially Rick's charts.
The comparison photos are great too, thanks Rick.
Guess I'll have to see one in person to fully appreciate one!
By the way, there has been a K-Line Berk on the bay for a couple of weeks now available for about $750 with no takers.
The comparison photos are great too, thanks Rick.
Fully concur!
Alex
The model is fine. It is just that the prototype is small. Here are the blueprints. Lionel's (K-Line's) cab and boiler accurately reflects the blueprints.
Lionel did have to design a new chassis for the locomotive, so they must be given credit for that. The small motor is about the only thing I do not like about my K-Line version of the engine.
I would not trust that blueprint.
The idea that larger diameter drivers should mean a larger locomotive should be examined carefully.
I think the K-Line Berk is too small, even though it matches my Cyclopedia print, which is a far more accurate drawing. Nobody guarantees these drawings to be correct.
Opinion.
These blueprints were created by the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Company and are part of the Kansas Historic Society.
I trust these prints over word of mouth any day. What narcissism.
Pic or it didn't happen.
One question is still not clear to me. Does the Lionel version of the old K-Line Berkshire have a bigger motor than the K-Line did?
One question is still not clear to me. Does the Lionel version of the old K-Line Berkshire have a bigger motor than the K-Line did?
I have not removed the shell on mine, but FWIW, Lionel DID put the motor in the fire box which would allow for a larger motor as opposed to in the middle of the boiler reversed like k line.
Heres the definitive answer on the motor, it is the same Canon motor used in the s3 northern.http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?startRow=26&DOACTION=productPartFilter&PRODUCTID=0a5eaff2-9bcd-40b9-bd12-4c0b398121bb
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