New Lionchief-Plus RS-3 derails on switches

Mine works fine but I have Lionel O switches and Ross.

Sorry to hear that Derek, what's the product number?  Also, how does the wheel gauge (over faces and back-to-back) compare to your other diesels?  Depending on the nature and extent of the problem, the easiest solution might be to order new replacement truck assemblies from Lionel, and hope they are better than what's currently on the loco.   -Ted

I had a similar problem with my new Williams RS3 on our club layout which uses Atlas 3-rail track. At first I thought it was gauge problem too, but close observation revealed that the lead roller was snagging on the rail as it passed over the switch, because it was slightly misaligned from center. Fortunately, I was able to correct it by simply twisting it on it's mounting screw to bring it back to proper alignment. Of course, the first thing that comes to mind when something derails on a switch is to check the Gauge of the wheels, and try turning the loco around, too.

Bill in FtL

Bill, Ted, and wb47: Thanks for your replies and ideas. I did some more running last night and the problem seems to always occur with the last wheelset of the trailing truck. It climbs up and drags the rear truck off the track. With one of the switches it even occurs at very low speeds. It also occurs regardless of which direction I'm running (so it can happen with either of the two trucks).

  I'll play with it more tonight and try to check the gauge more carefully. Thanks!

Derek 

I am wondering about the pickup roller being the culprit. Let us know what you find. Also on the older atlas switches it helped to take a bit of the metal off the ends of the rails to avoid the square face, more of a gradual incline for the pickup roller. Might work for fastrack.

I have not experience this issue with my LC+ RS3 (6-38778, Rio Grande).  I have run it through FT 036 and FT 072 switches both ways multiple times.

I hope you get your issue resolved.

Derek, 

if if you turn the loco around, does the same truck (which would now be on the front) derail, or does the following truck still derail? If it stays with the same truck, probably a wheel is slightly out of gauge.

On my engine, the problem turned out to be the pickup roller, & if I looked closely, I could see the roller drop & snag on the edge of the rail as it passed through the switch, but I might have missed it had I only been looking at the wheels.

Good luck,

Bill in FtL

The loco is a PRR RS-3 (6-38816). The issue is always with the following truck, regardless of whether I'm running long or short hood forward (so it's occurring with both trucks) . It's occurring with my switches that immediately follow a curve section of track (either O-36 or O-48). The loco comes out of the curve into the switch and the first truck and the first wheelset on the following truck negotiate the switch, but then the last wheelset climbs the outer moving rail (whatever it's called) and pulls the truck off the track. It's happening with a switch (O-36) where the main route continues through the curving leg, but also a switch (O-48) where the main route follows the straight leg. None of my 6 other locomotives (Lionel, Williams, MTH) have this issue.

  Tonight when I have some time again I'll look really close at the pickup rollers and see if that's the culprit.

I'd really like to get this locomotive to work, as it's a nice piece with wonderful slow speed operation, good sounds, and good smoke.

Again, thanks for all of the replies!

Derek

I would also suspect the pick-up roller. I have one single MTH engine that has a slight jump caused by the rear pick-up roller. Happens on one only one switch set up as you describe your O-36 switch, when entering the curve side. It does not derail, just jumps up a little. I was able to adjust the roller and improve things, but haven't been able to eliminate the problem completely. I have many other MTH engines and a some Lionel  (no LC or LC+ yet) and all other engines have no problems anywhere on the layout. This particular engine is a Railking Scale SD45, the pick-up rolers seem to be slightly smaller than the others I have compared them to, but it is a very slight difference.

Hi folks,

  I again want to thank everyone for their ideas.

I spent 2 hours with the locomotive last night looking very carefully at it's behavior over the switches. As best I can tell the pick-up rollers are not the problem. What is happening is that the flange of a wheel of the trailing truck is rolling up onto the moving rail (the blade or point rail) that is the one up against the outside rail. It's amazing to me that the thin flange can perch itself up there, but it happens. It happens whether I'm running long or short hood forward (so it's happening with both trucks). It was happening fairly consistently with several of my switches. Some careful bending of the point rails and some judicious filing of those rails has significantly reduced the frequency of the derailments, but it's still not perfect for each switch. I have it working about 98% of the time now and for my running that's good enough.

  I checked the gauge of the wheels and they seem to be similar to my other locomotives (if there's a difference it's slight). For whatever reason this RS-3 is just much more sensitive to my FT switches than my other locos.

Thanks again!

Derek

Does it happen only on switches adjacent to a curve track, or will it do it on switches that are adjacent to straight tracks? Also, could it be caused by the curved track and the switch making an "S" curve, or does it happen when the curved track and the curved portion of the switch are both in the same direction? Do the trucks pivot freely in all directions?

Bill in FtL

Bill,

  I only have one switch which has a straight track leading into the switch. That switch has not yet presented any problems. The problem does happen with one switch where the curved track leading in and the curved portion of the switch go the same direction (so not an S-curve). It also happens with a couple of switches where the configuration is that the curved leg of the switch goes in the opposite direction of the curve leading in (so the loco would be taking an S-curve if it headed out of the switch on the curved leg). The loco actually does fine negotiating these S-curves. With these switches the derailments occur when the loco is continuing through the straight leg of the switch. Basically, when the loco is coming off a curve and enters the switch the flange of a wheel on the trailing truck (never the first truck through) rides up on the point rail that is against the outer rail. The weight of the loco is pressing up against this wheel and the flange catches the point rail just right to ride up on it.

  The trucks do seem to pivot fairly freely.

  Thanks again!

Derek