New Lionel Base3 transition thoughts for my layout

Joe Fermani,

Your comments on this subject are the best that I have read to date.  Our club and I just ordered additional tactile Cab1Ls controllers for use in the immediate future and will wait until the dust settles.  They are affordable, easy to use and have most of the necessary functions....even quilling.  And, can be held with one hand.

It still saddens me that the Cab1L base was discontinued as this offered a lower cost Legacy option for many operators, but I'm guessing that Lionel didn't sell enough of them.

In all these things, time will tell as you point out.

Earl           

@Craftech posted:

If O Gauge had as much interest as N Scale and HO there would probably be open source developers like the latter have with DCC++

For example:  DCC++ while primarily controlled with apps such as Engine Driver for Android and Wi Throttle for iOS also have people developing hardware throttles to control it.

http://www.trainelectronics.co...+/Throttle/index.htm

Including using a Sony handheld remote control for a throttle.

http://www.trainelectronics.co...IRThrottle/index.htm

John

That is a big part of it. O gauge is not the dominate player in model trains.  Lionel can only work within their budget based on sales revenue.  I also think the component shortages helped kill off the Cab2.  Lionel NEEDS the new base to consolidate all their operating systems (LionChief, Plus, 2.0, TMCC, Legacy).  That is a win for customers who have engines across the line.  It also allowed Lionel to design a newer version of the Legacy base using current components.  That is also a huge win.  Dave Olson already mentioned that the current Legacy base does not meet current power requirement specs.  The new base solves that.  Current components offer more features and allows better designs.  I'm sure it makes good business sense to go the app route for the controller but for many users, this is one negative with the new system.  A new physical remote will yield more sales of the new base to existing Legacy users.  If you don't have a Legacy system, then you'll buy the new cab 3.  For existing customers, its a harder sell.  The app is only free when you buy the base (Currently).  If some one comes over to run trains, they have to buy the app to use legacy.  If not, now you're handing over your phone for them to run trains.  Sorry, but I am not allowing others to use my cell phone.  For as many pros there are for going the app route, there are just as many cons.  I understand Lionel's decision.  I just don't have to like it.  I do appreciate all that Lionel is doing to continue advancing command control.  I hope in the near future a physical remote will return.

"I hope in the near future a physical remote will return."   Agreed Joe.  I like the tactile feel of holding a remote.  A big part of my other hobby - photography - is how the camera body 'feels' in the hands of the user.

I'd prefer to hold and use a physical remote rather than use a smart-phone - or like device.  I'm on a computer all day for work and smart-phone as well.   There is something about 'old-school' analog that is enticing.....  I still like using my trusty 'ol ZW some days when I feel like running the locos I had as a kid........................

What no one is this thread seems to have considered is this:  Lionel can manufacture more CAB-2 Command Bases without too much difficulty with parts sourcing.  We as consumers just have to show a REAL COMITTED demand for continuation of that product.  The handheld CAB-2 remote is the device with parts availability problems, and that is only due to the limited size of a production run for these remotes.  It is the cost of the custom made LCD/Touch Screens that makes the small run production of a final run of CAB-2 remotes cost prohibitive.  It's not really Lionel's fault.  It is the fault of a SHRINKING consumer market to purchase a full production run of CAB-2 handhelds.

As much as one might like to complain about this situation, the above sums up the facts.  Not Ryan and Dave's fault at all!!!!!!!

Lionel COULD outsource the handhelds to someone with deep pockets to produce the LCD's, but the cost of the remote would have a major price increase as a result of a run of less than 1000 units..

@Joe Fermani posted:

The app is only free when you buy the base (Currently).  If some one comes over to run trains, they have to buy the app to use legacy.  If not, now you're handing over your phone for them to run trains.  Sorry, but I am not allowing others to use my cell phone.

You can install the app on a tablet which is also larger.

John

@Joe Fermani posted:

Dave Olson already mentioned that the current Legacy base does not meet current power requirement specs.  The new base solves that.

Power requirements?  The base provides no power except for the small DC supply for LCS components.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Power requirements?  The base provides no power except for the small DC supply for LCS components.

I clearly am not quoting Dave correctly.  If I remember correctly, Dave was referring to the new onboard power for the base itself.  He said the cab2 base  was no longer in spec.  I believe the cab3 will now have an internal transformer to power its electronics verses a power brick to power the unit.

OK, I suppose that could explain it.

@donhradio posted:

We as consumers just have to show a REAL COMITTED demand for continuation of that product.  The handheld CAB-2 remote is the device with parts availability problems, and that is only due to the limited size of a production run for these remotes.

As much as one might like to complain about this situation, the above sums up the facts.

Don,

I'd genuinely like to thank you, immensely, for your technical contributions here on the OGR Forum, but I'm going to have to call you on your marketing skills.

Just what do you think this multi-threaded tirade, running non-stop since the Base3 announcement, containing complaint after complaint after complaint about Lionel dropping Cab2/Base2 and Base1L, and questioning the higher price to be paid for "innovation", is?

If this isn't REAL COMMITTED, what is?

Now, on the other hand, you may be hinting, quite correctly, about one thing: All of us just might be complaining in the wrong direction. Our real committed complaints probably should go directly to Lionel rather than simply play out here on the Forum.

If a new Cab2/Base2 set is to be introduced the number of complaints logged, and even more so likely purchases, will indeed tell the tale.

Mike

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Power requirements?  The base provides no power except for the small DC supply for LCS components.

@Joe Fermani posted:

I clearly am not quoting Dave correctly.  If I remember correctly, Dave was referring to the new onboard power for the base itself.  He said the cab2 base  was no longer in spec.  I believe the cab3 will now have an internal transformer to power its electronics verses a power brick to power the unit.

I'm wondering if it's the fact that with the #992 base you need an external power supply for the PDI bus.  The Base3 integrates it all into the same power supply.  It's one (very small) advantage to the Base3.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Just what do you think this multi-threaded tirade, running non-stop since the Base3 announcement, containing complaint after complaint after complaint about Lionel dropping Cab2/Base2 and Base1L, and questioning the higher price to be paid for "innovation", is?

If this isn't REAL COMMITTED, what is?

Agree, I think the fact that there have been so many threads demonstrates the commitment of users to a physical remote.  Granted the consequences are much different, but I wonder if Class I railroads would put their throttle, brake, and horn controls on a touch screen in a real locomotive.  I think that they would not - for the same reason cars still have physical steering wheels.  In some modern cars, the wheel is connected via wire and not physical coupling, but it's recognition that keeping your eyes off a screen is important.

Now, on the other hand, you may be hinting, quite correctly, about one thing: All of us just might be complaining in the wrong direction. Our real committed complaints probably should go directly to Lionel rather than simply play out here on the Forum.

Personally, I think this is the perfect place, because people can organize around a cause and raise awareness.

If a new Cab2/Base2 set is to be introduced the number of complaints logged, and even more so likely purchases, will indeed tell the tale.

Well, I can tell you that the decision to bring out a remote-less Base3 lost Lionel one customer.  Me.  Instead I scoured the Internet and called about 20 dealers until I found a #990 set with the CAB-2.  You might ask, "why didn't you buy one earlier if you wanted it?"  The simple answer is that everywhere I looked (including all of the advertisers on this forum) never had one in-stock.  I figured that with the absolute vitriol that MTH received upon announcing the discontinuation of their DCS Remote, Lionel wouldn't make the same mistake and eventually release a new Legacy, or maybe a VISION LINE, command set.  Given the longevity of the previous two command systems from Lionel, they could probably charge a premium.  However, $500 for a box with some pretty lights and a smartphone app?  Hard pass.

I'm not rushing out to buy the BASE3 just yet, but I do have a spare #990 set and a few extra CAB2 remotes, so I'm set for foreseeable future.   If there is a compelling reason in the future to have the BASE3, I'll consider it at that time.  Besides, letting the beta testers work out all the bugs isn't a bad plan in any case.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Now, on the other hand, you may be hinting, quite correctly, about one thing: All of us just might be complaining in the wrong direction. Our real committed complaints probably should go directly to Lionel rather than simply play out here on the Forum.

If a new Cab2/Base2 set is to be introduced the number of complaints logged, and even more so likely purchases, will indeed tell the tale.

Mike

Dave and Ryan rarely chime in, but they see these threads. (Imo Mike, Jon, and Rudy ,were much more receptive to hobbyists concerns, and showed more participation here on the forum)

All it took is threats of canceling pre-orders on the brass hybrid Stausburg #90 for Dave to pop in and set some things straight regarding driver diameter. He wasn't too pleasant but these trains ain't cheap. I don't think it was unreasonable for folks to expect some level of accuracy on a very noticeable error.

I've sent emails with concerns only to have them answered with. "We'll see what we can do",to no answer at all. Only to have the product delivered with the error I pointed out on the prototype illustration.

Individual emails that can be brushed off with a canned reply. May not be as effective as a group of dissatisfied customers spreading the word to other hobbyists.

I think criticism here on the forum can be a good thing for the hobby as long as we remain constructive and civil of course.

@rplst8 posted:

Agree, I think the fact that there have been so many threads demonstrates the commitment of users to a physical remote.  Granted the consequences are much different, but I wonder if Class I railroads would put their throttle, brake, and horn controls on a touch screen in a real locomotive.  I think that they would not - for the same reason cars still have physical steering wheels.  In some modern cars, the wheel is connected via wire and not physical coupling, but it's recognition that keeping your eyes off a screen is important.

Personally, I think this is the perfect place, because people can organize around a cause and raise awareness.

Well, I can tell you that the decision to bring out a remote-less Base3 lost Lionel one customer.  Me.  Instead I scoured the Internet and called about 20 dealers until I found a #990 set with the CAB-2.  You might ask, "why didn't you buy one earlier if you wanted it?"  The simple answer is that everywhere I looked (including all of the advertisers on this forum) never had one in-stock.  I figured that with the absolute vitriol that MTH received upon announcing the discontinuation of their DCS Remote, Lionel wouldn't make the same mistake and eventually release a new Legacy, or maybe a VISION LINE, command set.  Given the longevity of the previous two command systems from Lionel, they could probably charge a premium.  However, $500 for a box with some pretty lights and a smartphone app?  Hard pass.

Lionel has not canceled the CAB-1L remote. Therefore, Lionel STILL has a hand held remote in production that will work with the Base-3 and control 99% of Legacy functions, all TMCC locomotives and all Bluetooth locomotives. This hand held remote is in production. It is not the same situation as the situation with MTH’s hand held remote, which is out of production. Although its replacement has been recently announced, the future MTH remote hasn’t been developed past a concept sketch. There is not an announced time line of when it will be available.

I have ordered the Base-3 and a CAB-1L . I am looking forward to using both by the end of the year.

@Madockawando posted:

Lionel has not canceled the CAB-1L remote. Therefore, Lionel STILL has a hand held remote in production that will work with the Base-3 and control 99% of Legacy functions, all TMCC locomotives and all Bluetooth locomotives.

Not sure where you get the 99% of Legacy features from, and if the CAB-1L can control Bluetooth, thats news to me.

If the CAB-1L were included in the $499 price tag, I’d have been more likely to buy in.

@Madockawando posted:

Lionel has not canceled the CAB-1L remote. Therefore, Lionel STILL has a hand held remote in production that will work with the Base-3 and control 99% of Legacy functions,

How many times do we have to have this discussion LOL!

The Cab1L cannot access any of the Legacy specific features with the exception of 2 of the 3 quillable whistle tones you get via the cab2.

So it reality, it cannot control 99% of Legacy functions.

You may as well say an old brick cell phone can do 99% of what a smartphone can do.

@rplst8 posted:

Not sure where you get the 99% of Legacy features from, and if the CAB-1L can control Bluetooth, thats news to me.

If the CAB-1L were included in the $499 price tag, I’d have been more likely to buy in.

The CAB-1L when used with the Base-3 can control Bluetooth locomotives. Dave actually demonstrated it.

@RickO posted:

How many times do we have to have this discussion LOL!

The Cab1L cannot access any of the Legacy specific features with the exception of 2 of the 3 quillable whistle tones you get via the cab2.

So it reality, it cannot control 99% of Legacy functions.

You may as well say an old brick cell phone can do 99% of what a smartphone can do.

Hmm…99% maybe a slight exaggeration but the CAB-1L when used with the Base-3 can access MOST Legacy functions. Most users won’t even notice what they are “missing.”
Your analogy with the ancient cell phone is cute but it doesn’t work as a comparison between the CAB-1L and the CAB-2.

@rplst8 posted:

Not sure where you get the 99% of Legacy features from, and if the CAB-1L can control Bluetooth, thats news to me.

If the CAB-1L were included in the $499 price tag, I’d have been more likely to buy in.

Nassau Hobbies has the Base-3 for 399.00. You can preorder the CAB-1L for just a bit more that 130.00. So you are saying you won’t spend thirty bucks over your limit for a Base-3 /CAB-1L combo after spending thousands of dollars on your Lionel Legacy locomotives?

@Madockawando posted:

Hmm…99% maybe a slight exaggeration but the CAB-1L when used with the Base-3 can access MOST Legacy functions. Most users won’t even notice what they are “missing.”
Your analogy with the ancient cell phone is cute but it doesn’t work as a comparison between the CAB-1L and the CAB-2.

Be sure to do a demonstration video showing the 99% Legacy functionality when you receive your base 3.

Considering the Cab1L cannot access Legacy specific functions via the 990 base due to a lack of remote capability. I'd be curious to see how the base 3 can add options and controls that don't exist on the Cab 1L.

I think my cell phone analogy is very accurate, because the brick phone was popular back when the TMCC handheld was created. The Cab1L is essentially a glorified Cab one, and thats O.K. That was the intention.

12 or 15 years later was the advent of Legacy, as well as the smartphone.

@RickO posted:

Be sure to do a demonstration video showing the 99% Legacy functionality when you receive your base 3.

Considering the Cab1L cannot access Legacy specific functions via the 990 base due to a lack of remote capability. I'd be curious to see how the base 3 can add options and controls that don't exist on the Cab 1L.

I think my cell phone analogy is very accurate, because the brick phone was popular back when the TMCC handheld was created. The Cab1L is essentially a glorified Cab one, and thats O.K. That was the intention.

12 or 15 years later was the advent of Legacy, as well as the smartphone.

I would be very happy to do a demo using my new CAB-1L and Base-3 running my Lionel Legacy locomotives! So just for my information, please explain what I will not be able to do with my CAB-1L when running my Legacy locomotives.

@Madockawando posted:

I would be very happy to do a demo using my new CAB-1L and Base-3 running my Lionel Legacy locomotives! So just for my information, please explain what I will not be able to do with my CAB-1L when running my Legacy locomotives.

I'll wait a year for your demonstration, I know you like to have the last word.

I just don't think its wise to make assumptions as to what others might or might not "miss", just because Lionel makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Especially in the case of a newcomer to the hobby.   They spend $600+ on the Cab1L and base 3, only to find out there is 2 pages of "Legacy specific" features in the manual of their $1000+ locomotive they cannot access.

@RickO posted:

I'll wait a year for your demonstration, I know you like to have the last word.

I just don't think its wise to make assumptions as to what others might or might not "miss", just because Lionel makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Especially in the case of a newcomer to the hobby.   They spend $600+ on the Cab1L and base 3, only to find out there is 2 pages of "Legacy specific" features in the manual of their $1000+ locomotive they cannot access.

Okay, I get it. You don’t know what Legacy functions the CAB-1L has or does not have. Yet on the other hand you are certain that the CAB-1L will not have 99% of Legacy functions. But how can you know that if you don’t know what the CAB-1L/Base-3 has?

@Madockawando posted:

Okay, I get it. You don’t know what Legacy functions the CAB-1L has or does not have. Yet on the other hand you are certain that the CAB-1L will not have 99% of Legacy functions. But how can you know that if you don’t know what the CAB-1L/Base-3 has?

You already read it, and quoted it lol!

Your asking me, so . I guess your right. "You won't even notice what your missing."

@RickO posted:

You already read it, and quoted it lol!

Your asking me, so . I guess your right. "You won't even notice what your missing."

Anyway…I have accumulated a nice collection of Lionel Legacy locomotives with more on the way from the Lionel 2022 catalog.  I am looking forward to running them with the CAB-1L and Base-3 combination. I can use it to run my LionelChief locomotives as well. I am happy that Lionel still has a physical remote in production. If by some chance, I decide to utilize a Legacy feature not available on my CAB-1L hand held remote, I’ll just use the app. No big deal.

since you have given this whole Legacy Base-3 issue a lot of thought. What is your plan to operate your Legacy locomotives?

@Madockawando posted:

Nassau Hobbies has the Base-3 for 399.00. You can preorder the CAB-1L for just a bit more that 130.00. So you are saying you won’t spend thirty bucks over your limit for a Base-3 /CAB-1L combo after spending thousands of dollars on your Lionel Legacy locomotives?

First, when did I say $499 is my limit? Second, who says I’ve spent “thousands of dollars” on Legacy locomotives?

I think you’re projecting while trying to justify spending another $500+ dollars in addition to the sunk cost of your locomotives, when you could have probably picked up a #990 a few months ago for half that.

I really like playing my whistle with the slider on the Cab2.  Hoping MTH incorporates a slider into their new remote.  The Cab1L is a very old form factor that lacks any ergonomics.

At least for the short term those of us with 990 sets are better off for running our Legacy rosters.

@rplst8 posted:

First, when did I say $499 is my limit? Second, who says I’ve spent “thousands of dollars” on Legacy locomotives?

I think you’re projecting while trying to justify spending another $500+ dollars in addition to the sunk cost of your locomotives, when you could have probably picked up a #990 a few months ago for half that.

Where did the $499 for a Cab-1L / Base-3 combo come from? Why from you!  Being a helpful OGR forum member, I provided information on how you can purchase a CAB-1L and Base-3 for only just a bit over $499 just like you mentioned in your post below.  To quote you: "If the CAB-1L were included in the $499 price tag, I’d have been more likely to buy in."

My assumption that you have invested "thousands of dollars" on Lionel Legacy locomotives was based on your active participation in the CAB-1L and Base-3 discussion. I assumed you were asking questions so you can get the most out of operating your Legacy locomotives.

However, If you don't have any (or very few) legacy locomotives and you don't seem interested in purchasing a CAB-1L or Base-3, what exactly are you looking for on this Legacy control system discussion?

rplst8OGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

@Madockawando posted:

Where did the $499 for a Cab-1L / Base-3 combo come from? Why from you!  Being a helpful OGR forum member, I provided information on how you can purchase a CAB-1L and Base-3 for only just a bit over $499 just like you mentioned in your post below.  To quote you: "If the CAB-1L were included in the $499 price tag, I’d have been more likely to buy in.

Since street prices vary, and the obvious fact that any system that Lionel comes out with would be sold by dealers with a discount, my reference there was to the catalog price.  If the discounted street price is $399 as you say, then I would want a remote included at that discounted price point.  Please try and follow along.

My assumption that you have invested "thousands of dollars" on Lionel Legacy locomotives was based on your active participation in the CAB-1L and Base-3 discussion. I assumed you were asking questions so you can get the most out of operating your Legacy locomotives.

However, If you don't have any (or very few) legacy locomotives and you don't seem interested in purchasing a CAB-1L or Base-3, what exactly are you looking for on this Legacy control system discussion?

Most of my Lionel locomotives were purchased used, save the Legacy Sharks from 2019 or 2020 and a recently acquired set at a steep discount.  That said, even if I had only one locomotive, I want to be able to control all of it’s features, with a remote for something far south of your quoted $530 price point.

@rplst8 posted:

I think you’re projecting while trying to justify spending another $500+ dollars in addition to the sunk cost of your locomotives, when you could have probably picked up a #990 a few months ago for half that.

Yep, and I did just that last year.  $225 for a like new #990 set, nice to have a spare command base in reserve, not to mention another remote.

@MichRR714 posted:

I really like playing my whistle with the slider on the Cab2.  Hoping MTH incorporates a slider into their new remote.  The Cab1L is a very old form factor that lacks any ergonomics.

At least for the short term those of us with 990 sets are better off for running our Legacy rosters.

BINGO!  While you can "sort of" use the quilling whistle with the CAB-1L, you only get two steps, the whistle button on the CAB-1L actually does have a pressure sensitive two-step function.  OTOH, the whistle slider on the CAB2 has more steps and is easier to really modulate the whistle with.  Also, try as I might, I can't find the AUX3 button on the CAB-1L to activate those special Legacy features.

Me: When you said, "@rplst8 "If the CAB-1L were included in the $499 price tag, I’d have been more likely to buy in." I, being the helpful guy that I am, found away for you to buy a CAB-1L /Base-3 package for very close to the $499 price tag you mentioned.

from @rplst8: "Since street prices vary, and the obvious fact that any system that Lionel comes out with would be sold by dealers with a discount, my reference there was to the catalog price.  If the discounted street price is $399 as you say, then I would want a remote included at that discounted price point.  Please try and follow along. "

Me: You never qualified your $499 as saying it was the cataloged price. You said that YOU would "buy in" if you could find a combo at $499. I found it (or really close to it) and NOW you say you would only buy a combo if the "discounted street price is $399." It sounds like you are never serious about purchasing a CAB-1L or Base-3 at any price and you are posturing to make Lionel look bad.  My mistake was in assuming you really were interested in the CAB-1L and Base-3.  And why wouldn't I make that assumption considering how active you are on this thread.

from @rplst8 : "Most of my Lionel locomotives were purchased used, save the Legacy Sharks from 2019 or 2020 and a recently acquired set at a steep discount.  That said, even if I had only one locomotive, I want to be able to control all of it’s features, with a remote for something far south of your quoted $530 price point."

Me: it sounds like you don't have any Lionel Legacy locomotives because I can't find any Legacy locomotives available at a steep discount, either new or used. If you know where I can find any Legacy locomotives then help me out and let me know where I can find them at a steep discount. I spend a lot of time monitoring dealer websites and auction sites trying to find Legacy locomotives. Having done that for long enough, I can say that Lionel Legacy locomotives are not being offered at a steep discount and they seem to hold their value well in the used market.

I am not one to tell me people what threads they can and cannot participate in. I believe that people should post in any topic that interests them. However, It would be helpful if you made it clear up front that you are not interested in purchasing the Base-3 and CAB-1L under any circumstances when you decided to comment on it. 

@Madockawando posted:

I am not one to tell me people what threads they can and cannot participate in.

All evidence to the contrary.

@Madockawando posted:

However, If you don't have any (or very few) legacy locomotives and you don't seem interested in purchasing a CAB-1L or Base-3, what exactly are you looking for on this Legacy control system discussion?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

All evidence to the contrary.

Re-read my quote: "what exactly are you looking for on this Legacy control system discussion?"  I am asking @rplst8 what information is he looking for on the CAB-1L and Base-3 since finding a combo at a discount wasn't what he was looking for like he implied earlier in the thread.  Trying to be helpful, just like you!

By the way, how is your research into the maximum range of Lionel's Universal Remote coming along?

@gunrunnerjohn, BTW, since the price of the CAB-1L and Base-3 seems to be a significant concern for some, what is the pre-order price for the CAB-1L and Base-3 from Henning's Trains?

@Madockawando posted:

Me: You never qualified your $499 as saying it was the cataloged price. You said that YOU would "buy in" if you could find a combo at $499. I found it (or really close to it) and NOW you say you would only buy a combo if the "discounted street price is $399." It sounds like you are never serious about purchasing a CAB-1L or Base-3 at any price and you are posturing to make Lionel look bad.  My mistake was in assuming you really were interested in the CAB-1L and Base-3.  And why wouldn't I make that assumption considering how active you are on this thread.

Had I not found a #990 and that was my only option, and the remote was included I probably would have got one eventually.

I have since found a Base-1L, Cab-1L, and Legacy PowerMaster set for a lot less.  I dislike the fact the quilling whistle control on the Cab-1L is so limited, but I think I can integrate a SER2 with the Base-1L and then use the DCS app to control all Legacy features.  If I can, I might consider selling the #990.  We’ll see.

Me: it sounds like you don't have any Lionel Legacy locomotives because I can't find any Legacy locomotives available at a steep discount, either new or used.

I have the aforementioned Baldwin Sharks, which I posted about when I received them a while back, and a couple of others.  I raved about sharks, they are truly beautiful models and are done up in a real, accurate, paint scheme that Lionel had not offered previously.

You are accusing me of posturing and now called me a liar.  I think it might be time for me to make judicious use of the forum “Block User” feature.

OK guys!  Enough of this!  It is Sunday and it sure would be nice if the moderator on duty today (me) could enjoy the day without all of the alerts to the arguing in this thread.  We have two choices as to what is going to happen to the thread if it does not get back to the OP's original question:  edit and close it or delete it.  Keep up the bantering and one of those is going to happen.  Frankly, it would be much less time and cost to just delete it.  Your choice.

Alan:

I'm glad this discussion wasn't deleted because I decided today to pre-order the Base3.

It should (may) arrive in time for my 73rd birthday in December.

There was one other thread where this was being discussed.  I am very much considering the Cab3.  What I am trying to do is determine what it is that I get that I already don't have.  I have Cab2, and also TIU DCS Wi-Fi.  Using Bluetooth to run my Lionel engines is OK, but what else???

One question I have is what about the original TMCC hand helds.  I have not used mine in a few years, and would be happy to part ways with them. Not the Cab1L's but the initial TMCC handheld Cab1s.

@jbmccormick posted:

There was one other thread where this was being discussed.  I am very much considering the Cab3.  What I am trying to do is determine what it is that I get that I already don't have.  I have Cab2, and also TIU DCS Wi-Fi.  Using Bluetooth to run my Lionel engines is OK, but what else???

Truthfully, very little.  I'd wait until it actually comes out and there is real information about exactly what all the capabilities are.  In the long run it may makes sense, but you'll be running your trains just fine with the Legacy system and BT if that floats your boat.

I still plan on getting the new Base-3 and Cab-3 App on my phone. It won't be right when the new base becomes available, but it will happen in the future, especially since I am planning to build a larger layout in the future. I love my Legacy #990 Command Set, and will continue to use the remote with the new base. The one thing I wish that the Cab-3 App will have later on is a throttle control similar to MTH's DCS App so operators could get finer speed control with the app.