New lionel engineering channel

searched what you suggested and could not find it.  could you please just copy and paste the link address.

 

TEX

Steve

Finally found it:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkzsqcxP4Xs

 

TEX

Steve

Thanks! The link is:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/LionelEngineering

 

By the way, these videos will also make their way onto lionel.com.

Cheers,

Rudy

Whoops! beat me to it by 32 seconds.

 

Sorry tex special all I have is my iphone at the moment. Go to youtube then do a search for lionel lcs. It should be the fourth video down. Once you open it then subscribe to the channel. Hope this helps. If anyone can post a link to this feel free as this is worth a view by everyone which is why I posted it in this forum. Thanks all!

Looks like you both beat me too! Whoops!

Its a neat app for the tablet.  Very nice user interface.  I don't own an i-pad and have no plans to buy one.  If they make the app for the android market, then I may consider it.  If Lionel wants this new control option to succeed then really need to support both platforms.

 

A remote is still a lot easy to carry around then using a tablet.  Of course, if both markets are supported, then smartphones could also be used.  Then anyone who owns a smartphone who comes over could join in with running trains.

 

 

I agree both interfaces should be used. When at the Toy Train Museum Open House York Week in the spring MTH said they where developing both, Lionel when I asked was only going IPad, etc. My thought Lionel big mistake.

We have to walk before we run.  However that being said, Android is now on the radar.

Hi Jon,

 

Do you see opening this up for Iphone since it's already geared towards to IOS platform?

Wow, that is neat. Hopefully it will get kids wanting to try it .But its a good start I am sure the android version will come..

Is that an undecorated GS series 4-8-4 in the one video I see ?

 

 

Me two! I have two Kindle Fire HDs and can't see spending the money for the iPad. I hope they do as their is a greater Android Operating Devices out there than iPads and iPhones.

When will this LCS system be available?

Is that an undecorated GS series 4-8-4 in the one video I see ?

 

It kind've looks like a PRR Q-Class locomotive with that tender.

 

Jon

And I thought that it looked like a tenderless 'J' 

GS2 and GS3 smokebox front, SP number boards on side of skyline casing, typical

GS rear truck - it looks not at all like PRR or N&W. Really.

 

The SP even patented these number boards, and when the WP received copies of the

GS6 in WWII, they were not allowed to use the boards (the structure was there,

but the numbers were not). 

We have to walk before we run.  However that being said, Android is now on the radar.

 

Very cool!  My son is all about the graphic displays and technology (he's 13).  I think it would be cool for him to control the layout via his phone or kindle.

Totally agree however that also gets very expensive. I deal with app/mobile/video game developers and designers on a daily basis. Developing for Android is more difficult than developing for iOS or Win Phone. iOS and WP have very strict guardrails around the UI - as a developer you know how your work is going to appear. Because Android is open source you have no idea where your work is going to appear - it could be on an underpowered mobile phone, it could be on a 70" TV, it could be on a tablet. This makes for some real headaches when developing the UI. This is probably why they're going with iOS to start - it has well defined UI standards and a huge audience. 

 

Personally, I've held out on investing in a DCS system beyond the very basic MTH Remote Commander I have now. The existing systems all seem way too expensive and also too complicated for my 2 and 7 year old kids to run. The LCS system in the video looks fantastic. I saw it in the catalog but in the video it's much more impressive than I imagined. Also look like you don't need to own a CAB or Legacy contoller, just the base so it's a more affordable solution (assuming you already own an iPad!)  Can't wait for it to come out. 

Worth noting, you can pick up a 1st Gen iPad on eBay for $100-$150.  They work fine for this application.

Does this mean it won't require iOS 6 or higher? First gen iPads won't run the latest iOS. Be great if it didn't since we have an iPad 1 sitting around unused - would be nice to use it as a dedicated controller. 

 

Also what hardware will be needed for this system? Will I need a Legacy/CAB controller or just the base? Will I need ASC/SC-2/etc. for switches and accessories? Love to see more details. 

Jon,

 

That may be true, but the issue really is about limiting the app release to just one specific platform.

 

While acknowledging your previous "walk before you run" comment, I think the better approach is to develop the app for all intended platforms (iOS, Android, etc), keep up regular communication via website or newsletter on the developments, and release the app for all those platforms at the same time.  It might take longer, but has the advantage of not unintentionally alienating a significant part of your customer base that would be otherwise interested in this app.  As one saying goes, your customer "feeling the love" is a lot better than them asking "where's the love?" 

My question also jon. What generation ipad will work best with the app? For a dedicated one to use just for the app they go cheap on ebay as you pointed out.

 

Taking longer isn't the main issue. Main issue is money and risk. Doing both requires additional assets and that costs money. If you're talking about a new, untried product that means greater risk. There's a reason why so many companies roll out their iOS app first and Android app second. Even a large company with a devoted fan base such as Starbucks chose to release their mobile payment app on iOS first and then later released an Android version. In addition to iOS being easier to develop for iOS owners have much higher engagement rates than Android users meaning an iOS app will typically have more downloads/purchases than an Android app even though Android has the larger base.

Not trying to bash anything as I have Legacy and an Apple laptop. I hope they sell a ton of them. However,

if you already have the Legacy system and cab 2 what is the advantage of this system? Is it actually seeing the track diagram which shows the position of switches and accessories on the IPAD?  Is there something I am missing?

SeattleSUP,

 

Since the app is being offered for free, coupled with the fact that a multi-platform DCS app will also be made available (free as well as paid)  then the argument on cost/risk is pretty much a non-issue, methinks.

 

I simply don't subscribe to the philosophy of announcing an app with the impression that the majority of your customer base that would use your app all use only one platform.  That makes as much sense as getting a partial circumcision performed; you either go all the way with it or forget about it.

Does there have to be an "Advantage?"    How about just because it's fun?

 

I don't need Legacy or TMCC or DCS.   I have them because they're fun

The fact that there are more Android devices out there than iOS devices out there does NOT mean Android has a larger user base. It only means it has a larger install base. They are two VERY different things. Android owners still do not use apps at nearly the rate of iOS owners (though this is quickly changing).  

 

There's also development capacity - a team may not be large enough to develop both apps simultaneously. That or a company may not have the budget to develop both simultaneously (very likely for a small company such as Lionel). Also keep in mind it costs more to develop for Android because there are more variables you have to design and test for. Just because you release an Android app doesn't mean it will automatically work on any Android device. A lot of Android phone apps fail horribly when scaled to tablets. I work in this space and know a LOT of people on the app side, OS side and hardware side and there are good reasons why people go iOS first and Android second. You may not personally subscribe the philosophy but companies the size of Starbucks do and you can rest assured they have plenty of good reasons to do so and have researched the issue pretty heavily. 

 

If the LCS is a success on iOS it's a safe bet it will come to Android. 

 

 

I'm fully aware of the additional complexity of developing apps for Android devices over iOS.  If you are going to develop both, however, the development costs are no different where they are released simultaneously versus one at a time; it still has to be done if the objective is to release both.

 

Again, as the apps are being released for free as it is indicating, whatever the development costs are for both is moot if both are ultimately going to be made available.  So as far as I see, the issue would be development capacity from the sense of not being able to work on both simultaneously.  But again, to keep your consumer base more happy and inclusive then the ideal model would be to develop them sequentially then release them simultaneously, not release one first then develop & release the other.

 

If it's not feasible from a logistics standpoint to release both simultaneously yet the intention is still to release both iOS and Andriod versions, then that intention should be made crystal clear from the get-go.  Keep the consumers informed.

 

As for the Starbucks and other's collective rational for developing the easy one first then the more complicated one later, that's just being lazy.

I am using the iPad 1st generation unit at the lab, and it is running iOS v5.1.1 - and I will continue to test on that iPad so LCS will work on this version of hardware and iOS. 

 

With the low cost of 1st gen iPad from many sources, folks who can't wait for LCS on Android can get started with minimal investment.   Android is on the radar, but certainly not for some time as a Lionel product.

The costs as you describe are not necessarily true for Lionel.  We have limited folks available to write an App, with little to no experience in Android.  We have to leverage our expertise and knowledge. 

 

This app was conceived by me, and made real by a lot of hard work and long hours by folks that care about the hobby and contributing to make it more fun - most of the development happening on their own time.  Only recently have we been given a *small* budget for continued efforts.

 

I am sorry it does not please everyone, however even if one has to invest ~$150 for a used iPad, you get a ton of play value for your investment.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply jon with people selling there older ipads on the bay and elsewhere. It looks like having more than one on the layout is going to be very doable. I am planning a modular layout along the lines of what roger farkash and his crew build in dallas. This way I can move it if necessary. Given this economy one never knows how long one may live in the same house. With that said I have one more question. With the new asc2 boxes and such devices. if they are mounted under there respective layout sections. Can they with the proper connectors between layout sections be made to work in a modular set up such as with the new lionel modular layout?

I think this is a great app for running the layout.  Kudos to the designer for a great looking Interface.  Even more impressive is the statement that this was done on the side as it were.  Obviously there are some very talented folks with these skills at Lionel    It sure looks really easy to mange the entire layout.  I can see where this would be really good at  getting kids interested in running the trains.  This is right down their alley.

 

As good as the command systems are, they can be a little cumbersome at times trying to manage things.  As they say a picture is worth a thousand words and this demo Sure makes it look easy.    I can't wait for this technology to go public.

 

Way  to go Lionel!    As someone already said, the future looks exciting.

I finally got around to playing with the app tonight. It works great. Took me maybe 10 minutes to replicate my 5x10 layout with 5 switches and 4 operating track sections. I built my layout for my 6 and 2 year old (at least that's my cover story for my wife!) and I can see how this will be much easier for them to use than a Legacy or CAB controller. I think the Yard mode is especially brilliant. How will you handle operating accessories such as the AEC Reactor, Gantry Crane, Sawmill, etc. which have their own controller? I saw the gantry crane in the video but didn't see any accessories in the app. 

Jon,

 

I don't question the hard work you and your team had already invested in developing this app.  All I'm saying is that you might be engaging in a tactical error by overlooking or under-emphasizing the Android users out there, unintentionally I'm sure, but nonetheless isolating a good percentage of your potential customer base.

 

 

 

I think I'll wait until your skunkwork team releases an Andriod version.  I'm not overly fond of iPads, not to mention the fact that I'd rather use your app on a tablet that I actually use (and a current one at that),  and not have to go out and shell out more $$$ just to run it. 

As of this morning rich has made this lcs disscution a sticky at the top of the lionel tmcc forum. This way all parties interested can post there questions and feedback there and we can all keep track of lcs info,questions and updates better. Also jon z. And his team can better keep track of our feedback and questions, plus post new lcs info and updates. Thanks to rich for doing this. If we can I wish given lionels stand on the android app at the moment. Keep the ipad vrs. Droid out of this thread and focus on how to help make the exsisting app and lcs products better with our feedback. Thanks!

Historically, Windows machines so outnumbered Macintosh machines that Apple owners frequently whined that they were neglected by Microsoft and other software producers.  Now the shoe is on the other foot, and iOS devices, particularly tablets, far outnumber  Windows users, largely because of being first to market.  Android products are catching up in total users, but are still behind.  Over time the marketplace will decide, but it entirely makes sense with limited resources and small numbers of users to focus on the most popular operating system, which in this case is the iPad iOS.  As Apple users discovered in the past, whining and saying how much you don't like the other system doesn't make the software magically appear .

Microsoft has been - and still is - second only to Apple as the largest publisher of software for the Mac platform. Disclaimer: I've worked with both companies. 

 

It's a safe bet that if LCS is a success Lionel will move to Android as fast as they can. Due to my work I own iPads, Android tablets and even a Surface so I'm good no matter what.

 

So far LCS is looking like a real game changer, especially for those of us who have kids or non-train friends interested in running our layouts. 

Well, duh, no one is going to be larger than Apple when it comes to Mac platforms.  When you work with what amounts to a proprietary system where 3rd party development is purposely constrained, that's a given.  

 

Disclaimer:  I've worked with (not for) both companies (and platforms) as well.

 

 

And Landsteiner, aka former forum member Neil (not Neil Young), it's great to see you back on the forum.