Going back to MTH for rework New MTH 20-3527-1 Dreyfuss PT tender binds on curves - Switches...Forget about it

Check to see that the wheels are all in gauge.  Check the lateral movement of the truck and the wheel sets.  Also check to see that the wheels round, true and that all are straight (aligned in a straight line).  Next put it on something flat, like a piece of glass and make sure that all of the wheels are in contact with the surface.

I have an older PT tender and have never a any issues with it negotiating curves (down to 042) or crossovers.

Good luck.

From your description it sounds like at least one of the tender wheelsets is out of gauge (probably too wide) and that is causing the binding as it goes through the curve. Measuring from the backside of one wheel to the other should give a consistent distance among all wheelsets. The one(s) that is different is the most likely culprit.

I converted from HO and fixing out of gauge wheel sets in that scale was easy, just a simple twist and pull or push would take care of the problem. Tinplate wheelsets are a different animal, and I don't really recommend my method, which usually involves a vise and a hammer! Hopefully someone with a little more experience will weigh-in on this and let us know the proper way to re-gauge a wheel set.

Joe Shipbaugh

Seems like you just need to finish trouble shooting and solve the problem. Is there an axle that is not floating fully in it's guides? Maybe an axle guide was not inserted properly at the factory? Can you measure each wheel set for the proper gauge?

Does the front truck assembly rotate freely?

I had a brand new flat car struggle on switches. I found that one wheel set was stripped at the factory. It actually floated on it's axle and would go in and out of gauge on these switches.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Seems like you just need to finish trouble shooting and solve the problem. Is there an axle that is not floating fully in it's guides? Maybe an axle guide was not inserted properly at the factory? Can you measure each wheel set for the proper gauge?

Does the front truck assembly rotate freely?

I had a brand new flat car struggle on switches. I found that one wheel set was stripped at the factory. It actually floated on it's axle and would go in and out of gauge on these switches.

I will look at this when I get home this evening.  I really like the tender and was looking for this type of help.

If the wheels need "gauging or adjustment, can this bee done without special tools and pullers?  If not, I will call MTH this afternoon and arrange RMA if the wheels need adjustment.

Yes, I use my vise on some things laying around like a block of wood. You have to be extra careful not to distort the tip of the needle point axles when they are used. I use a caliper to get them perfect. It's hard to measure them with a ruler and get good accurate measurements.

I've also seen where the front tender truck, has a wire harness (tether wires) or similar obstruction, limiting it's movement. I don't have this model tender!

After you check it out, considering that this a new engine, if you do not have the right tools, I would get an RMA.

Danr posted:

After you check it out, considering that this a new engine, if you do not have the right tools, I would get an RMA.

I think that is where we are going.  I will pst a picture in the morning.  The end wheels of the 6 car truck have a brass bushing sticking out from the chassis about 1/8 or 3/16 of an inch out.  This increases the distance which restricts end play.  2 for 2 in a row with issues.

Simple first, have you lubed all the axles?.....even the floaters? I have this same exact tender and it glides through O81...............hope you get it fixed...that’s a honey of set........Pat

My MTH PT tenders derailed on Ross curved 072/080 and 072/090 switches. Per Steve's (Ross CEO) suggestion, I removed a few of the spikes where the kink occurs in the outside rail near the points, bent the outside rail out until the kink went away, and the problem went away.

Hal

HMS2035 posted:

My MTH PT tenders derailed on Ross curved 072/080 and 072/090 switches. Per Steve's (Ross CEO) suggestion, I removed a few of the spikes where the kink occurs in the outside rail near the points, bent the outside rail out until the kink went away, and the problem went away.

Hal

Atlas switches here.  Something definitely wrong with wheel set installation.  I’m confident the picture will create ah ha moment when I post it in a couple hours.

There are brass bushings sticking out about 5/16" of an inch for the pilot, lead and end of the 6 axle centipede.  Is that normal or should they have been pressed in flush with the side of the wheelset frame?

I agree. It looks to me like those wheels have not been fully pressed on. Could be the camera angle but from the picture it appears as though the wheels are not parallel with one another. 

Joe Shipbaugh

No, Bryant, they should all be flush.  Depending upon your skills and tools this is not a difficult fix but it is a new piece so MTH should take care of it.  You will, probably, have to pay the freight to get it to them.  Let us know how you make out.

joedaddy posted:

I agree. It looks to me like those wheels have not been fully pressed on. Could be the camera angle but from the picture it appears as though the wheels are not parallel with one another. 

Joe Shipbaugh

The floating 4 in the middle throws the alignment off.  When you place an upside down track on them they line up nicely.  When you roil the track through the wheels, I could see the problem is in the bushing equipped wheels.  No room for them to move side to side.  Each wheel is jammed against the inner surface of the outer rails.

Danr posted:

No, Bryant, they should all be flush.  Depending upon your skills and tools this is not a difficult fix but it is a new piece so MTH should take care of it.  You will, probably, have to pay the freight to get it to them.  Let us know how you make out.

Pilot axles on the tender also?  What would I need to do to press them in and set the wheels?  I see these dots that look like they could be a cover to conceal screws or something underneath that may lock the bushings in place.  I also see the dots on the floaters, so I may be off base here.   I assume a micrometer would be useful to get wheel span precise.  Needed?  I figured my vice would be best to press the bushings in all of the way?  If it is that simple, I think I could do it myself.  If more than that, I will send it in.  Shipping cost not too bothersome.  4 weeks without this brand new engine is no fun!

Danr posted:

Check to see that the wheels are all in gauge.

How is this done?  The NMRA gauge I have is for 2-rail, so what is the measurement that has to be taken?  I asked this question not long ago and got no real clear cut answer.  To me, it has to be back-to-back of the wheels, but what should that distance be???

Bob Delbridge posted:

Danr posted:

Check to see that the wheels are all in gauge.

How is this done?  The NMRA gauge I have is for 2-rail, so what is the measurement that has to be taken?  I asked this question not long ago and got no real clear cut answer.  To me, it has to be back-to-back of the wheels, but what should that distance be???

If the bushings improperly sticking out, that will severely limit the side to side movement of those axles.  I think if the bushings are not in properly, gauge would come after that is taken care of?  As far as gauging, I would think that my other 4 or 5 steam tenders that work flawlessly will give me a close idea of "gauge" , correct.  I see the difficulty will be the ease of sliding  (pressing) the bushing in all of the way.

Danr posted:

No, Bryant, they should all be flush.  Depending upon your skills and tools this is not a difficult fix but it is a new piece so MTH should take care of it.  You will, probably, have to pay the freight to get it to them.  Let us know how you make out.

I called Pat at Pat's trains.  He took a tender and told me how it looked underneath.  His bushings stick out like mine.  Nuff pussy footing around.  I am calling MTH for the RMA.  I will live with it.  Coincidently the cars I ordered for this Dreyfuss are coming in UPS today.  I will put them on my new VL Niagara and see how it looks.  Quite frankly, this leaves a lousy taste in my mouth on this engine.  Hopefully it will change when I receive it back.

Bryant, sending it to MTH is best.  Bushings like these are, usually, press fit into the casting.  The casting is delicate so it has to be supported properly before pressing on it.  As you can see, sometimes things happen in manufacturing and assembly that are not caught before leaving the factory.  I have a 2000 version of the Dreyfuss Hudson and love it.  It is one of the most reliable engines I have.  It has only had routine grease, oil and new traction tires.  I also repacked the smoke unit.  Hopefully, when you get yours back you'l love it too.

Happy Holidays!

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

My outer loops are 90 & 81.  My problem started with derailment on crossover.  Ran around the inner loop and derailment on a crossover switch.  Then decided to just run around without switching.  The engine surges through the curves as if binding.  I then separated the boiler from the tender.  When you push the tender it binds and stops in all curves.  (Not even working on switch derailment yet.)  Hand pushing the tender through the curve you can really feel it binding aggressively.

I searched this forum before I posted this to see if I could find a similar post.  Could not find anything.  FYI, I run VL Big Boys, Allegheny, VL Niagara with a PT tender, no problem whatsoever.  I am asking for some guidance.  Thanks in advance.  

After 2 months they found a defect on the tender that shorted the engine on curves.  They fixed that.  Runs fine.  The NP Tender won't do switches very well.  Especially 2 switches end to end creating a crossover.  I am thinking blind wheels may help that.  Anyone else experienced a problem running through Atlas switches?

Did they press the bushings into the casting? Is the tender still binding? My Hudson PT tender looks just like yours did in your earlier post. If the bushings were pressed in by MTH Service, I may try to seat mine as well or send it to them. 

Just looked at one of my MTH PT Tenders from around 2005. The bushings are pressed into the wheel. Two screws in the center of the frame holding the wheelsets come out dropping the whole assembly out. Ideally you have disconnected the coupler connector from the board but if you are careful you can still pull the frame away from the body to tap on the offending wheel against the frame to drive the bushings back in. This should not change the gauge as long as you support the frame and not the opposite wheel.

Easy peasy.

Slight correction. What appear to be bushings on the first and last wheelsets are actually thrust bearings. They need to be pressed all the way onto the wheel as indicated above. The axle bearings are pressed into the frame and all wheelsets ride in them. Procedure is the same, tap on the outside of the wheel while supporting the frame.

Pete

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

My outer loops are 90 & 81.  My problem started with derailment on crossover.  Ran around the inner loop and derailment on a crossover switch.  Then decided to just run around without switching.  The engine surges through the curves as if binding.  I then separated the boiler from the tender.  When you push the tender it binds and stops in all curves.  (Not even working on switch derailment yet.)  Hand pushing the tender through the curve you can really feel it binding aggressively.

I searched this forum before I posted this to see if I could find a similar post.  Could not find anything.  FYI, I run VL Big Boys, Allegheny, VL Niagara with a PT tender, no problem whatsoever.  I am asking for some guidance.  Thanks in advance.  

After 2 months they found a defect on the tender that shorted the engine on curves.  They fixed that.  Runs fine.  The NP Tender won't do switches very well.  Especially 2 switches end to end creating a crossover.  I am thinking blind wheels may help that.  Anyone else experienced a problem running through Atlas switches?

I’m having problems w/various Lionel engines & Atlas O 072/#5 switches.  6-11300 Vision Line Texas Engine has two sets of double pu rollers, first roller of rear set drops in gap between turnout middle rail & outside rail causing derailing. This occurs going into turnout from outside of switch, not straight part of switch.  It back thru ok.  Fix - plug gap with plastic or something.  Ross 072 no problem, switch designed differently.  Also Lionel T1 6-28063 PU roller arcs going thru Atlas switches.  Also notice MTH/Lionel 18”/21” passenger cars pu rollers arc/spark going thru Atlas switches.  Lionel’s new Niagara has to go thru Atlas switches very, very slow or it will derail.  Just getting around to unboxing engines on new layout and finding these problems. I too woul like to hear of others having problems w/Atlas switches.  Would be interesting if others are having problems/and solutions to fixes.  If no responses here may start new thread later.  My Atlas switches are the newer ones with the new design.

just my 2 cents.

NYC Z-MAN posted:

Did they press the bushings into the casting? Is the tender still binding? My Hudson PT tender looks just like yours did in your earlier post. If the bushings were pressed in by MTH Service, I may try to seat mine as well or send it to them. 

They are correct says MTH.  I’m going to drop the middles and see how it goes.  If fine, blind wheels