Blackwater Canyon Line - October 14, 2024 - Town and Scratchbuild Planning

Thank you John!!  Slowly but surely!  😄

I am putting the track planning on hold for a while due to a double computer malfunction.  Our sloth desktop gave up on my Friday.  I hadn’t gotten SCARM running on the laptop yet when I was hit by a SCAM that infiltrated the laptop.  I realized it seconds too late and shut down the laptop.  So, I am going to check with my younger son-in-law to see who locally can tell me if he can remove the malware or if it needs reformatted.  It will give me time to let the new ideas simmer and see how I am thinking after a hiatus!

I did start measuring and drilling the plexiglass sections from Mike.  There is a bit of an adjustment from drilling wood.  I have to drill pilot holes, then bigger, and bigger to size.  I went too fast on one, and it sort of melts the plexiglass so that hole is slightly larger than intended.  I don’t have enough done to post a photograph.

@Mark Boyce

Mark go to a hardware store and get a plexiglass drill bit. They are tapered on the point and expand to the size you choose. They work extremely well.

Wood, thank you very much for the information!!  That sounds like a good thing to do on a hot, humid day tomorrow in my car with the 440 air conditioner!  Get the drill and then stay in the train room!!  
What I read on the Internet never mentioned it!  I didn’t look enough.  That’s what this forum is all about!  

although my new trainboard is 18 by 24 ft o gauge, I made it 40 inches off the floor, thinking I would mostly be controlling and  watching trains sitting in  chair. in retrospect, I bending over to do any work on the trainboard- laying track, doing scenery. its backing pain after 2 hours. so Id think about a table height of 50 inches with a lower level or sections for any younger grandchildren. and crawling under a 40 inch high board to do wiring is not fun. when I started this new trainboard 6 years ago, conventional wisdom was often at 36 to 40 inches high.  and a duck under at 40 inches is no fun. gary j

Bucca, Thank you for the reply.  Yes, leaning over is rough on the back.  I always liked to stand running trains, so I could also sit on a stool to wire.  It can be a job, but maybe you could raise your layout some.  I’m seeing things I don’t like on my layout and am making changes on my layout.

Bucca,  Working at different levels just requires different approaches for me.

My lowest level is 20", the next one is 36" then subsequent levels are at 40", 43", 48" 50" and 55".

To compound the issue, over a diagonal span of 70',  the basement floor has a 6" tilt to the primary sump.  So all the numbers I just listed change depending on where one would be standing.

My approach was to gather an assortment of roller office chairs and set them from 3" to bar stool height and set them around the room.

The only seating devices I purchased at retail were the bar stools from Mr. Barstool in Philly on 2nd street.  They have hundreds from which to choose.

All my office chairs were from a used office equipment companys or Goodwill for lunch money.  I positioned them to be use at the average heights in different areas.

There is one lift up bridge I do not like to lift up so I have my lowest office chair permanently sitting there so I just roll under the bridge like the example below.

Trust me, I do not like to bend over!  The back just says NO!

Sit down, roll under, stand up.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Bucca, Thank you for the reply.  Yes, leaning over is rough on the back.  I always liked to stand running trains, so I could also sit on a stool to wire.  It can be a job, but maybe you could raise your layout some.  I’m seeing things I don’t like on my layout and am making changes on my layout.

Reminds me of my 1st layout....so many poor design decisions were made as I was so gung-ho on getting trains up and running.   Switches and accessories out of reach, poorly labeled and designed wiring, not finishing basic scenery before running trains...sheesh, thinking back makes me cringe...lol 

You're doing the right thing by pausing and making changes now!  The time and effort will be well worth it when your layout has a full complement of trains on it!  Hang in there!

-Greg

Yes indeed, it is always worth backtracking and tearing something out we don’t like, rather than moving forward and never liking it.

Mark, I second what Wood mentioned. I have a tapered (smaller at the tip and wider toward the drill) bit that I use to make nice holes to countersink my screws. Makes a clean hole for the screws. Sorry to hear about your computer issues. Hope you’re up and running soon.

Andy

Thank you Andy and Wood!  I was going to comment once I had the plexiglass assembled and post a photograph.  I bought a tapered drill bit yesterday.  Wow!  What a difference!  I have 10 out of 16 holes drilled and 8 screws in.  It is much better than what I read to start with a small pilot hole and work up.  Part of a 1/16” bit is now a part of the project.  I broke it off trying to extract it since it was melted in to the plexiglass.  😄

Thank you!  I have a fellow from my church who cleans up computers among other things who is going to take on mine.  I don’t know how long until he can fit me in though.

Morning Mark, I see things are a little on pause to think things out. I think that is a great idea, what scares me is when the layout no longer becomes fun, and I start thinking about redoing the whole layout!

Sorry to hear about your 1/16th drill bit, I hope it doesn't become a problem. I think if it was me and you have room, I would just drill another hole and leave the bit where it is.

I will keep checking in, and Jeff nice job on the SCARM drawing! I like the fact that I have the ability to run trains on both upper and lower loop with the option to change levels to change out trains.

Thank you Mike!  Yes, redoing the whole layout would be a decision not to be made lightly.  No fear of that here.  

I just moved over a little and drilled a new hole with the tapered bit.  I drilled a little dimple for the approximately 1/32” of the broken bit to set in when the two pieces of plexiglass are joined.  

I just finished the last of the outdoor painting for the summer, though there isn’t much since the house is brick and aluminum siding, soffit, and fascia!  So, I hope to have a photograph soon of the finished plexiglass frame for under the double track bridge.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Mike!  Yes, redoing the whole layout would be a decision not to be made lightly.  No fear of that here.  

I just moved over a little and drilled a new hole with the tapered bit.  I drilled a little dimple for the approximately 1/32” of the broken bit to set in when the two pieces of plexiglass are joined.  

I just finished the last of the outdoor painting for the summer, though there isn’t much since the house is brick and aluminum siding, soffit, and fascia!  So, I hope to have a photograph soon of the finished plexiglass frame for under the double track bridge.

Mark- drilling plastics is always tricky. Too much heat and you get into a pickle. I have a few Greenlee step bits from my contracting days. They do come in handy.

Be happy with the little bit of painting. I just signed the contract to replace the siding on our 2,000 sqft split level.

With two windows are are in for $40 K +++

Good thing this isn't coming out of the train budget!

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- drilling plastics is always tricky. Too much heat and you get into a pickle. I have a few Greenlee step bits from my contracting days. They do come in handy.

Be happy with the little bit of painting. I just signed the contract to replace the siding on our 2,000 sqft split level.

With two windows are are in for $40 K +++

Good thing this isn't coming out of the train budget!

Bob

Bob, I got in trouble because I couldn’t hold the drill trigger at a steady slow speed to get through the half-inch plus plexiglass.  Wood’s and Andy’s suggestion certainly was valuable!!!

$40,000!!!!  That’s just a little over 1/4 of what our house is worth!!!  I’m certainly glad I don’t live in Lawn Guy Land!!!!  Well that’s just one more reason.  😄  I’m counting my blessings!!

I love what we have access to here, NYC, world class beaches and fishing, some of the best golf courses too, but that's about it Mark.

Yea its expensive to live here. You wouldn't believe what my house would sell for today. I hope to get off this @#$% Island as soon as possible.

Bob

Bob, Well, I’m oh for four on the good things you listed.  Pittsburgh is the largest city I would want to go to, I hate the beach-no shade trees, my dad failed at making a fisherman out of me, and I can’t play golf!  😄

I don’t blame you for wanting to leave.  Think of it; sell your house and buy the same house in a lot of other places.  The rest of the proceeds make your retirement portfolio!  😄

Here is the bridge ‘stabilizer’ attached with cable ties like Mike did.

I thought maybe the center walkway sections wouldn’t seat down the whole way because of the cable ties, but they did.

Very well done, Mark.

Nice job mark as always!

Looks great Mark! I just wanted to remind you I also put a metal bracket at each end and bolted them to the bridge along with the wire ties. If you look at the top of the photo you can see I had to use a small angle bracket on each end.

You could just use a flat bracket if you think you need extra to secure it.

Thank you, Dave, John, Mike!

Mike, thank you for reminding me about the metal brackets!  I can do that.

Mike, I just happened to have 4 metal brackets on hand.  Here it is again.

Yes, there is always at least one of everything I do that is cockeyed!  Oh well!

Great job Mark! Everything is coming together nicely. I think you did a first rate job with the plexiglass. Can you give us a close up on the metal clips and wiring?  
I’m with Bob regarding living on Long Island. Access to lots of fun/interesting things to do and see, but you pay for it. And like Bob my house can go for a crazy amount. I could buy a comparable house somewhere else for less. I’d like to move sooner rather than later. I’d like to be able to build the new layout without too much trouble.

Andy

Really nice craftsmanship, Mark!

Peter

Thank you Andy and Peter!

Andy, the photograph with the wiring is Mike’s rendition.  I have some other photographs of his, but maybe I’ll leave an explanation up to him.  Here is a closeup of how I did it.  On each bracket, one screw goes into the plexiglass and the other into the bridge right beside the internal metal brace strip.

I spent some time yesterday removing some of the ‘pier’ on the station side and the whole pier on the trestle side.  I will be building new risers for a solid roadbed in place of the trestles, planning for a raised town.  Here are a few photographs showing how it will look.

I also reworked my under layout shelves, and here is the bridge out of the way so I don’t damage it.

Mark, Outstanding job! You can never have too much holding the bridge to the Plexiglass! You sure don't want it fallowing over when it gets into the up position!

I am glad I am fallowing your redo as it is alot of fun to see what you have going on and the great progress!

Hi Andy, the red wiring you see goes to a limit switch that stops the actuator when it gets fully seated, there is one on the other end to stop it when fully up. Feel free to contact me if you wish.

Thank you Mike!

I have been considering how to put hinges on the double track bridge.  I know I am going to mount the bridge closer to the station since there will no longer be a switch to contend with.  Six inches closer should work.  That will give more room for the switch on the other side of the bridge and more room for the curved track before hitting the wall.

Now the question is how to attach hinges to the bridge on the station end.  I see Susan Deets made her own that Mount to the side of the bridge and on the table.  I don’t have the capability to do that.

It occurred to me that since the lower bridge that has the linear actuator attached just uses a metal threaded rod underneath, I could do something similar with the upper bridge.

The stationary upright to support the hinge could fit like this and the hole could be drilled through both it and the plexiglass.  It seems like it could work.

Mark, I might be wrong, but I am not sure that would work. On my one bridge I had to put the hinges on the top side to have good track clearance. It might work if you attach something on the outside of the plexiglass even with the top of your bench work and put the hinges there.

Mike, Oh yes!  I agree it wouldn’t be good to do it the way I was holding the piece of wood. Wood support needs to be on the outside.  I’ll take another look at it.  Probably a lot of looks at it.  I need to get the clamps back out of the garage.  Stay tuned for other mock-ups!

Might just having it as a lift out work? No covering the great bridge with wood to hinge. Of course depends on its weight, how often it needs to "go up"  and having a place to move it to.

Great progress.    I’ve been resistant (for no rational reason)  to using a lift bridge but the more I see builds like this, the more I’m leaning towards using one.    An around the room layout would significantly increase my track but isn’t possible unless I consider this.  I’ll be following to see the ongoing progress.    👍🏼

Thank you, Scottie and VJandP!

Scottie, a lift out is still an option even though the other bridge is lift up.  I have been storing the bridge on a shelf under the layout opposite the bridge opening.  I can only do it sitting on the roll around on the stool, because it is too hard to put it under the layout standing.  The trouble is setting it in position on the layout without bumping it into the stationary tracks.  I’m rather clumsy.  Still not saying it isn’t a possibility.

VJandP, yes, the lift out, up, down bridge makes the whole layout possible.

Mike, here is a do over of the idea I showed yesterday.  Do the same thing on each side.  This may work better.

Geart job so far Mark, I wish I was at the bridge point so I can copy whatever you wind up doing! Your layout is just amazing in the space you have to work with and the attention to details is outstanding. I'm sure whatever solution you come up with will work great. Wish I had something to contribute...

@Mark_Boyce.  Have you considered adding a small gas strut?   As I consider designs myself, I was thinking about adding a gas strut to the lift bridge. It would help stabilize the bridge and hold it up securely as well. They’re fairly cheap and can be picked up at auto parts stores or on Amazon.

Hi Mark, I am going to take a small break and take some photos of what I have so you can see what I am talking about. Ok Mark here is what I came up with. I know it might be too much, I just want to give you as much information I have learned.

The photos show how I mounted my hinges to make them work. I am sure there are other ways, I just can't afford fancy stuff if I can keep it simple.

This first one shows that I had to put blocks on each side of the track on the bench work to raise the hinges.

The second photo is there to try and show you how I mounted it to the side of my girder bridge. 

And this last one shows how it looks in the up position

Here are 2 short videos to show you how my system works.

I hope this helps! Please remember I am not saying this is right or wrong, just showing you what I found works easy for me. I think once I figure out a cool way to put scenery around them they will be fine.

Either way Mark good luck !

Thank you, John, VJ&P, and Mike!

VJ&P, I am using a linear actuator on the lower bridge like Mike did in his videos.  I copied his idea to use the power on the lower bridge, and have an arm attached to the lower frame that lifts the upper bridge.  So, in effect I am using your suggestion.  I will look for a video showing it before I removed the single track bridge to install the double track one.

I just got my new laptop back from repair and I was only getting it setup to find my files and photographs on the cloud backup when the scammer took over my computer. My old sloth desktop bit the dust.  So, I don't have SCARM setup yet on this PC.  I lost my password for SCARM. 

Mike, I can do what you did, and I think it is the best way to be sure I get it working easily, since I am not equipped as well as you for this project.  Thank you for the photographs and videos.

That’s awesome! I did not realize the lift bridge would be powered. Dammit… Now I have something else to consider. 😝

@VJandP posted:

That’s awesome! I did not realize the lift bridge would be powered. Dammit… Now I have something else to consider. 😝

LOL

I’m still trying to get everything worked out on the new laptop, so here are some photographs I just took.  Here is the linear actuator that lifts my lower bridge, based on Mike’s setup.

Herr is a different angle where you see the perpendicular board that comes into contact with the upper bridge on the way up to lift it also.  

Here is a head on view where I took the pier out and will be building something wider to handle the double track bridge and heftier hinges.

Pay no mind to the blurred finger.  I’m not entering these photographs in a contest.

Nice. The linear actuator is from what? A friend was discarding a broken recliner that may have had one/some but I did not think to check it out for anything useful.