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I think Lionel reads this forum.  I hope they get this message.  Here's a heads up for anyone who has purchased or is considering one of the more recently cataloged Docksiders.

There has been a change made, and not for the better.  The main gear on the driven shaft is now made of brass.  Previously it was steel.  The worm gear on the motor shaft is still steel, as it was on the earlier runs of the model.

This arrangement lasts for about 6-10 hours before the locomotive begins to stall and skip.  Disassembly of the bottom of the drive unit (not fun the first time but easy enough once you learn the tricks of the trade) reveals copious quantities of brass shavings and one very stripped gear.   I can't tell if there was any lube on the gears from the condition of the brass gear and the amount of debris inside.  If I see another new one I intend to check it before it runs.

Our club has lost 2 of these in exactly the same way.  One belonged to a younger member whose father bought it for him at the Lionel store in Concord on my recommendation.  Ouch.  We have run these things forever and haven't had any issues.   In fact, of all the Flyonel locomotives made in the last 10 years this one has, in our experience, been the most reliable by a considerable margin.   It's not the best looker but for keeping trains running at a show it was perfect.  Emphasis on was.

This is the kind of thing that happens in a poorly controlled supply chain.  Do the drawings call out the material for the gear?  Did a subcontractor ignore the specs and ship parts that were "close enough"?  Did the assembly contractor knowingly substitute cheaper materials?  Did Lionel change the spec to maintain a certain price point?  Do the assembly workers know steel from brass to catch a problem before it ships?

It could be any one of these things, or other issues, but the bottom line is that it doesn't work.

I have no doubt that our young member's dad will take the Docksider back to the Lionel store in Concord and they will exchange it.  For another one that has a brass gear which will fail in exactly the same way. 

It could be possible for Lionel to make this right.   Order sufficient quantities of assembled drive axles with the steel gear from China for modifying what remains in the warehouse before it ships and for repairing the returns that will inevitably start coming back.

Will they do that?  Here's hoping. 

Anyone out there have one of these you've bought recently?  You might want to check it.  I know the Bethlehem Steel model is one of the problem children.  Kind of ironic, isn't it?

Are you listening, Lionel? 

Nick C.
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Nick,

To clarify, the worm (part that looks like a screw) on the motor shaft is steel and the wormgear (the gear driven by the worm) is now brass?

 

According to the Northwest Short Line pdf on gears:

Better gear life and less noise usually result if gears of dissimilar

materials are mated with the driving gear harder (ie. steel worm to

brass or plastic wormgear; brass worm to plastic wormgear, etc.).

Noise is also a function of proper gear quality, spacing, bearing

precision, and lubrication. Worn or sloppy bearings permit the

shaft to vibrate causing both noise and excess gear wear.

 

Contact Lionel direct.

 

I just looked at the parts for the Reading version, big shiny brass gear on the drive axle.  6-42564

 

Check the motor, steel worm with gobs of grease.

 

I would think Lionel would handle it under warranty.

 

Was there an earlier version with a steel gear?

 

is there any play in the motor mount to set the gears a little more free?

 

Regardless, sounds like a candidate for regular doses of Red"N"Tacky

The excessive gear wear is not due to the brass worm gear & steel worm. Steel worm against a brass gear is a very common practice. Most likely it is caused by slight misalignment of the gears, misadjustment of the backlash, or improper gear design! such as mismatched angle of the teeth. Also, check all the bearings to see if they allow any lateral slop of the motor shaft or axles. 

 

Bi lol in FtL

I would never operate any equipment without checking to see if it was lubricated at the factory. Sometimes you find one that wasn't. 

 

Let me pose a question here to those reading; how many approximate hours do you run a powered unit between inspection/lubes? I've seen instruction sheets (yes I read them) state you should lube between 8 and 40 hours of use.

Is it possible to use the older gears in repairs?

 

If it is, and this is more than "some" of the production, you better get some quick before any available steel parts are gone from repairing these with them.

 

Another muti-scale company has had that happen with newer parts more than a few times. "They" have a limited lifetime warranty  

 Um..Sounds like it would be in line with some companies original motor quality expectations by the public too.

 

 

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