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Good morning, Tinplaters!  Let me start by saying that I have very, very little experience with model trains, and none at all with O guage or prewar of any sort!  I’ve always had a passion for old things (radios, pocketknives, books, music….) and a couple months ago when an interest in model trains (to have here for grandkids) was sparked, someone from another forum suggested prewar trains to me.  I’ve been enthralled ever since.  I had no idea that these trains were even available. This forum page just feeds the fire!  I love the fact that they are more toy-like, instead of so model-like.  There is a TCA show a couple hours from me in a couple weeks that I am planning on attending.... I’ve been scouring ebay the last few weeks, but think it better to avoid an online deal right now, as I have no clue what is what…and what it might be worth. So, I’ve got the show on my calendar.   However, I have ran across an American Flyer set from 1938 (?) somewhat local to me that has my interest…

 

From the pics, the cars look to be in decent shape, although a couple couplers are missing.  The loco is a 2-4-4 with the front truck missing, the wheels missing off of the rear truck, the rear truck is detached and it's untested….but it looks in nice shape.  I’ve got a couple questions –  How difficult (and how expensive) to find a front truck and repair this unit?. The rear wheels, I assume, are easy enough to come up with.   I’d also like opinion on the value of this set, as is.  There are original boxes for the cars and loco, along with track, but no transformer.   If it’s not allowed to talk price here, maybe a private message?  Would this be something to start with?.... I’d be interested in hearing any advice on getting started in this hobby….I know there is plenty to learn.  I wish to find someone local that might be able to advise and help me along.

Thanks in advance!  I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys..

Dean

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1939 is very likely an accurate year for this set.  i will check with some catalogs later.

the locomotive-tender combination is known as 4603, Type XX locomotive w/ #1231, Type XII tender... maybe.  the Schuweiler text is know to not be 100% accurate and if you combine that with the ludicrous Flyer numbering system of the time, it becomes difficult to be absolutely correct.

for starters, the tender is a nice find.  i'd like to see all the sides, but if the other side is somewhat similar, decal tenders are very hard to find with the decal this intact.

regarding the locomotive... is there any evidence that there used to be a headlight bezel?  the Type XX locomotives aren't that rare, so finding trucks should not be a big problem, but unless you want to roar around the track, as is, it should run ok.  the slide pickups are usually a problem with modern track, but the large drive gear will definitely be a killer for transiting any modern switch or crossover w/ guard rails.

the cars  are  (#229) boxcar, (#230) dump car, (#231) Texaco tank car, (#232) caboose.  nice that they are all together and of a similar condition.  all these are listed as 1939 cars (after the Gilbert buyout).

 

you'll probably run into two different schools of thought about prewar trains and their reissued modern counterparts.  i can only give you mine since i really don't understand the other...

in about 20 years, this Flyer set will be 100 years old...  something that was bought as a toy 80 years ago.  it sure wasn't built perfectly back then.  i'll give you a good guess that the front and likely rear wheels are missing because they cracked and failed years ago... ironically and somewhat remarkably something i have heard is happening to newly made pieces even today [<cite needed>]  but if you do decide to pick up this set, you'll have something with history that, with some care, will likely see its 200th birthday still in running condition (hopefully under renewable power by then).

... or you can go with a new repro and be one of 1000 to own that set.  it will have state of the art electronics and very likely a complex sound and throttle system.  let's see... what was considered state of the art electronics 80 years ago?  in my first part time job in 1968 i worked with IBM 370 computers with an amazing 2 Megabytes(!) of main memory.  8" floppy disks were in standard use just 40 years ago and now you'd have to work for the military to find one still in use.  try finding a cassette recorder (i'd bring up 8-track tapes, but if you blinked you probably missed that era completely).  anyone thinking that anything electronic produced today will be available in another decade or two is delusional.  ...see what i mean about not understanding?

back to the classic Flyer set, overall a very nice set.
cheers...gary

Last edited by overlandflyer

Dean,

   Because you have little experience yet with Tin Plate and O Gauge trains either, I would attend a few Train shows with some one who knows Tin Plate Trains.  

I would leave the American Flyer set alone for now and pick up a newer MTH Tin Plate that you happen to like, get something that runs great for the kids and yourself 1st.  1 you know the new train is going to work correctly, and you will not need to restore or repair it.  2 IMO you should get your feet wet before you dive into the deep end of restoring O Gauge Trains.   3 purchase a few Pre War Cars that you happen to like, and add them to your new Tin Plate Train Set.  Remember Tin Plate comes in different sizes and with different kinds of Couplers, that you will need to learn when you want to purchase.

You can get lots of help & advise here on the OGR as to purchasing Tin Plate and building layouts.  Having grown up with Tin Plate Trains and understanding the different kinds, I advise everyone to educate themselves on this part of our hobby prior to making purchases.  If you can acquire a mentor to help you as you build your Tin Plate Train ownership, a mentor in the Tin Plate Train hobby can eliminate a lot of problems and save you lots of money.

PCRR/Dave

My MTH 263E P2 Work Train with both original Lionel Pre War and newer Lionel & MTH rolling stock.   This Train is an MTH remake of the Original Lionel 263E Work Train made in the early 1900's, the MTH is equipped with DCS P2 remote control.  As a young child I was introduced to Tin Plate Trains with my Fathers Original 263E, which we still own even today.

DSCN2392

 

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Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad

@overlandflyer - Thanks Gary, that's great info to have. I totally agree with your old vs new thinking...and that's why older trains appeal to me.

@Pine Creek Railroad - I appreciate your thoughts, too.  I have a passion for old stuff, and have kind of taught myself how to repair old tube electronics.  I've have repaired many old 30-40-50's radios and record players. I'm by no means an expert (I struggle at times!) and have had a few mentors in that hobby....but I absolutely love listening to old music received on an old 1940 Zenith console(music being streamed via ipod and transmitted over a homemade AM transmitter) .  New tinplate has little appeal to me, but I sure agree with you that I need to learn a lot more about what I'm getting into.  I wish I had the background and experience that you do ...or that I lived close by to somebody that does.

I live in a very rural area and don't currently know anybody interested in old trains...but have my feelers out.  I've contacted a couple model train clubs that are within an hour or so of me...I look to make some contacts at the TCA show in a couple weeks....I'm confident I'll find somebody to help me along.

One thing that I've learned is that the time to buy something is when you find it and the opportunity is there...and if this is a great deal, I'd like to jump on it, even if it sits on my shelf for a bit.  Truth be told, I'd rather have a Lionel, but this AM. Flyer does appeal to me, it's local and I think I can buy it right.  Any more thoughts?

Dean

My first tinplate train was a Lionel Standard gauge 390e from about 1929. Before that, I only knew G gauge and HO. I didn't know what three rail track was and I didn't know I needed AC power supplies. As Dave advised against, I dove right in, head-first. Sometimes you bump your head doing that.

So, it didn't run. Now I know that if it says "untested", assume it won't run. Next thing I found out was that nobody at any local hobby shop knew how to fix it. I ended up ruining the armature and didn't know where to send it to get it rewound, so I bought a new motor for it. It runs now. The wheels are out of round as Gary indicated can happen, so it kind of bounces a little going down the track. The old e-unit works. I still have the parts from the old motor. Anyway, I then bought a bunch of other stuff and finally found this forum and made it out to York. I learned a lot along the way.

I probably could have researched things better and been much more careful at times. I would have saved some money and time. However, this is a hobby. It's supposed to cost money. Very few of us are interested in these trains, because we think they are a great investment for the future or to leave for our families. I will say it right here, trains are not good investments. There is a small minority of people who bought a very rare piece and made a lot of money on it, but they probably lost a lot of money on everything else they bought. Trains are fun though!

So, my recommendation is if you like it, buy it. Look around first. Make sure it's what you really want. If you have problems, come here for advice. 

George

You also can go to library and or buy some prewar books on flyer and or lionel just to get an idea about them some have prices but thats always changing as its what a person is willing to pay for it.

I do own many prewar lionel trains and yes they are fun and reliable because of simple repairable electronics but i do own some  MTH trains that run great but i cannot repair the electronics if they go bad but they run great and have sounds for now.

George S posted:

My first tinplate train was a Lionel Standard gauge 390e from about 1929. Before that, I only knew G gauge and HO. I didn't know what three rail track was and I didn't know I needed AC power supplies. As Dave advised against, I dove right in, head-first. Sometimes you bump your head doing that.

So, it didn't run. Now I know that if it says "untested", assume it won't run. Next thing I found out was that nobody at any local hobby shop knew how to fix it. I ended up ruining the armature and didn't know where to send it to get it rewound, so I bought a new motor for it. It runs now. The wheels are out of round as Gary indicated can happen, so it kind of bounces a little going down the track. The old e-unit works. I still have the parts from the old motor. Anyway, I then bought a bunch of other stuff and finally found this forum and made it out to York. I learned a lot along the way.

I probably could have researched things better and been much more careful at times. I would have saved some money and time. However, this is a hobby. It's supposed to cost money. Very few of us are interested in these trains, because we think they are a great investment for the future or to leave for our families. I will say it right here, trains are not good investments. There is a small minority of people who bought a very rare piece and made a lot of money on it, but they probably lost a lot of money on everything else they bought. Trains are fun though!

So, my recommendation is if you like it, buy it. Look around first. Make sure it's what you really want. If you have problems, come here for advice. 

George

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts....George - You and I are a lot  alike.  That is much the same way I entered into the old radio hobby....learn as you go.  And in that hobby, the whole process of finding, buying and fixing/restoring an old radio is lots more enjoyable than just buying a pristine example. For the most part, radios are no great investment, either....but lots of fun.   Also- thanks for the links!

 

I am thinking about waiting until I head to a show or two, before jumping on this Flyer set.  If I look around some and like that one as well as any....and it's still available, maybe I'll pick it up.  But who knows, I could decide to go get it tomorrow!       Thanks again for the encouragement!

Dean

Last edited by papawdal

1939 was an interesting time for Flyer.  Gilbert bought the company in late 1937 and with the introduction of his new line of Tru-model trains and the birth of HO, most of the Chicago Flyer stock was hurriedly gathered into sets they could construct with the leftover inventory.   i'm going to make one more attempt at saying you may have an uncataloged set from 1939 or 1940.  i have two Flyer catalogs, both saying they are 1939.

the first set has that locomotive and tender and a very close version of the cars...

img009
this is probably the first 1939 catalog which still has the Chicago Flyer numbers for the cars.

in a likely later catalog, a similar locomotive, now with streamline fairings, is pulling the 200 series cars you picture...

img010

very subtle, but the boxcar has a decal vs the A.F.L printing of the 3000 series car, and the caboose is missing the American Flyer Lines nameboard over the windows which was also  a feature on the 3000 series caboose.

you'll also note that a listing of a "recommended transformer" is included, so it's technically not missing from that set.

if you want a starting point for value, i'll definitely say it's worth more than $10 even without the transformer...   but on a more serious note, my best advice is to go the the Live Auctioneer website and you may have to join (not a big deal) but you will likely see a number of similar sets where you will get a good feel for the value.

aside from its running condition which is unknown, you can see all the negatives in this set, the locomotive trucks/ wheels and you haven't commented on it, but the headlight might be missing the bezel.  but this set has a couple nice positives... 1) for a low end set (i.e. again, this was bought as a toy, not a collectible), the cars are in great condition and they are probably a set (and not just a gathering of cars), and 2) it would be hard to find a better tender than that one.  this alone would probably push an auction price up.  if you do spot similar sets at the LA site, you'll probably see what i mean.  on a personal note, i also like the Texaco tank. in smaller sets, the tank car is usually the first to be excluded.

good luck...gary

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Last edited by overlandflyer
overlandflyer posted:

1939 was an interesting time for Flyer.  Gilbert bought the company in late 1937 and with the introduction of his new line of Tru-model trains and the birth of HO, most of the Chicago Flyer stock was hurriedly gathered into sets they could construct with the leftover inventory.   i'm going to make one more attempt at saying you may have an uncataloged set from 1939 or 1940.  i have two Flyer catalogs, both saying they are 1939.

the first set has that locomotive and tender and a very close version of the cars...

img009
this is probably the first 1939 catalog which still has the Chicago Flyer numbers for the cars.

in a likely later catalog, a similar locomotive, now with streamline fairings, is pulling the 200 series cars you picture...

img010

very subtle, but the boxcar has a decal vs the A.F.L printing of the 3000 series car, and the caboose is missing the American Flyer Lines nameboard over the windows which was also  a feature on the 3000 series caboose.

you'll also note that a listing of a "recommended transformer" is included, so it's technically not missing from that set.

if you want a starting point for value, i'll definitely say it's worth more than $10 even without the transformer...   but on a more serious note, my best advice is to go the the Live Auctioneer website and you may have to join (not a big deal) but you will likely see a number of similar sets where you will get a good feel for the value.

good luck...gary

That's pretty cool!   I just received another group of pics from the seller...these are of the boxes. The numbers on them reflect those of your first pic.  Except the loco is numbered 4303?  The boxes say 1938?  The boxes are all there, but maybe not in excellent shape.  Thanks for the good advice and taking the time to look into this!  I'll check out that site.

amflyer 12amflyer13

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papawdal posted:

That's pretty cool!   I just received another group of pics from the seller...these are of the boxes. The numbers on them reflect those of your first pic.  Except the loco is numbered 4303?  The boxes say 1938?  The boxes are all there, but maybe not in excellent shape.  Thanks for the good advice and taking the time to look into this!  I'll check out that site.

welcome to the insane world of the American Flyer numbering system.  if you note, the catalog lists the locomotive AND tender combination as (#4603).  alone the locomotive was indeed a (#4303).  by the way, if you look at the catalog picture of the locomotive, i do think the locomotive for sale might be missing the headlight bezel.

the boxes marked 1938 were in all likelihood made in 1938 to reflect the new ownership, but again, with his push toward the Tru-model line which used a different box, i doubt if there was a 1939, 1940, etc version of that same box.

as a note of notation... i tend to put catalog numbers in parenthesis when they do not physically appear on a locomotive or car.  occasionally Flyer and others did stamp car numbers underneath the car body, but i don't really count that as a car number display.

cheers...gary

Last edited by overlandflyer

Dean,

Do you have thoughts about how you plan to run trains? Are you looking to have and operating layout, where you pickup and drop-off cars, or is a continuous running, loop style layout of more interest? The reason I ask is that some prewar trains lend themselves more to operations. 

For example, the Lionel 2800 series tinplate have automatic couplers that can be activated from a button on an uncoupling track. Here is a link to that type of car.

http://www.trainzauctions.com/...log_item/MT-0088934/

I think the American Flyer set you are looking at has hook and loop couplers, which make good connections but require lifting the car a little to uncouple cars. Also, there are different size trains for all the manufacturers in prewar. I believe the set you are looking at are the smaller size cars and engine. Search for American Flyer 3210 and 3208 to see the larger size cars. AF made 3/16 O gauge later on and earlier made O27 size as well. You should make sure you know what size you are more interested in. Lastly, some cars have 8 wheels, but there are a lot that only have 4. You might find that important as well.

George

Last edited by George S
George S posted:
... I think the American Flyer set you are looking at has hook and loop couplers, ...
 
... Lastly, some cars have 8 wheels, but there are a lot that only have 4. You might find that important as well. ...

huh... something i didn't notice before, but the cars may have missing couplers.  the only photo shows for sure that the boxcar is missing at least one, but i have a feeling it may be worse.

amflyer6

i have an early version of this same freight set and the couplers are indeed tab/slot and they are rivet attached.  as a runner set, i'd still give it high marks, but the collector value of replaced couplers will definitely bring it down a few notches.

4 wheel cars are typically associated with clockwork locomotives (less friction) while 4 wheel trucks (8 wheel cars) are more widely used on cars in electric motored sets.

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Last edited by overlandflyer
overlandflyer posted:
George S posted:
...

I think the American Flyer set you are looking at has hook and loop couplers, ...

huh... something i didn't notice before, but the cars may have missing couplers.  the only photo shows for sure that the boxcar is missing at least one, but i have a feeling it may be worse.

amflyer6

i have an early version of this same freight set and the couplers are indeed tab/slot and they are rivet attached.  as a runner set, i'd still give it high marks, but the collector value of replaced couplers will definitely bring it down a few notches.

I think I see one on the caboose in the picture with the tender. The tank car seems to be missing them too.

Thanks for all the thoughts, guys....I did realize some couplers were missing (mentioned it in my first post).  But I am not to the point that that would bother me, as I'd want to run them and not worry, terribly, if the grandkids got a hold of them or something...

George, you have me thinking about layouts, sizes and couplers and such...I think it might be best to be patient and look at the big picture....I'm not writing this one off....I do like it.  But there is plenty to consider. I am anxious to get something running, though.  I might be better off buying something at a show, that I can test out, first....to feed my craving for a train.....then maybe consider something like this.  But if course, I'd like to do both right now!

Do you guys know of anybody in rural NW/Central Ohio that I might be able to contact (and likely drive crazy) for help and advice?....and maybe tag along to a show with?..

 

Again, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and their willingness to help.

 

Dean

The cars look nice.  It would be a happier scenario if some weren't missing couplers and the engine was in running condition.  Not much fun in the box.  There is always going to be nice pieces available.  The guys who collected these trains and took good care of them are moving on, and their collections are being made available.  You might want to get a good running engine and ready to run cars to start.  Before you delve into fixing stuff.   I always believe in having trains running right away.  I got interested in standard gauge prewar trains after setting up my dad's 1927 #10 set.  I was able to find some very smooth running engines, a decent collection of 500 freight cars, and three passenger sets on eBay.  The one engine that broke down on me and needs repair, a restored 390E, was bought from a forum member, so that's how it goes in my experience.  You can tell a nice piece if you have a good eye.  I have all I want as far as a collection.  I run them at times, like wintertime.  Your interest may be O gauge, you might want to check out standard gauge.  The size is very appealing.  Either way, I agree with you that a ninety year old toy train that runs perfectly is a treasure.  And there are plenty of nice ones out there.  Forget the MTH repros.  What's the point?  You are on the right track, do a little research, there are books, and you will soon know enough to make a good buy.  Good luck and have fun.

papawdal posted:
.... I am anxious to get something running, though.  I might be better off buying something at a show, that I can test out, first....to feed my craving for a train....

as you see by this Flyer set and will be supported if you check out any prewar catalog, one of the nice parts i enjoy about prewar is the size.  not necessarily of the individual components, but the train size.  there is a video on this forum right now in which the new owner is rightfully proud of their A-B-B-A F3 consist pulling a dozen scale length passenger cars... but when you see the tail end passing by, in the near distance, here comes the head end again...!  a complete prewar train, locomotive pilot to caboose would likely not even span the length of only the diesel units of that scale train.

on that note, my suggestion would be to start small and rugged.  my favorite little locomotive is the early Lionel #258 (early 1930's production).  a nice little chunky 2-4-0 locomotive with a 4 or 8-wheel tender that, with a bit of coupler manipulation, can pull quite an assortment of different manufacturer cars.  i couple one up to a Dorfan freight set quite often and of course there are Lionel freight and passenger cars that will work well with it as 3-4 car consists.

here are three images i pulled off Live Auctioneers site.
each one of these three lots with a #257/ #258 locomotive sold for ~$150.

#257 locomotive/tender freight train w/ #650 series cars...

258 freight

#258 locomotive/tender passenger set w/ #529/ #530 cars...

258 passenger set

excellent condition #258 locomotive/ tender...

Lionel 258

cheers...gary

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William 1 posted:

The cars look nice.  It would be a happier scenario if some weren't missing couplers and the engine was in running condition.  Not much fun in the box.  There is always going to be nice pieces available.  The guys who collected these trains and took good care of them are moving on, and their collections are being made available.  You might want to get a good running engine and ready to run cars to start.  Before you delve into fixing stuff.   I always believe in having trains running right away.  I got interested in standard gauge prewar trains after setting up my dad's 1927 #10 set.  I was able to find some very smooth running engines, a decent collection of 500 freight cars, and three passenger sets on eBay.  The one engine that broke down on me and needs repair, a restored 390E, was bought from a forum member, so that's how it goes in my experience.  You can tell a nice piece if you have a good eye.  I have all I want as far as a collection.  I run them at times, like wintertime.  Your interest may be O gauge, you might want to check out standard gauge.  The size is very appealing.  Either way, I agree with you that a ninety year old toy train that runs perfectly is a treasure.  And there are plenty of nice ones out there.  Forget the MTH repros.  What's the point?  You are on the right track, do a little research, there are books, and you will soon know enough to make a good buy.  Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, William 1. 

500 freight cars?...wow.  I've already (in my mind) set aside a bit of space in my basement as 'trainspace'...but .not sure I am thinking big enough!

You're right about them not being fun in the box.  I'll force myself to be patient.  I wish somebody would buy that dang AF set and get it off my radar!   I'm really looking forward to that show in a couple weeks.    

overlandflyer posted:
papawdal posted:
.... I am anxious to get something running, though.  I might be better off buying something at a show, that I can test out, first....to feed my craving for a train....

as you see by this Flyer set and will be supported if you check out any prewar catalog, one of the nice parts i enjoy about prewar is the size.  not necessarily of the individual components, but the train size.  there is a video on this forum right now in which the new owner is rightfully proud of their A-B-B-A F3 consist pulling a dozen scale length passenger cars... but when you see the tail end passing by, in the near distance, here comes the head end again...!  a complete prewar train, locomotive pilot to caboose would likely not even span the length of only the diesel units of that scale train.

on that note, my suggestion would be to start small and rugged.  my favorite little locomotive is the early Lionel #258 (early 1930's production).  a nice little chunky 2-4-0 locomotive with a 4 or 8-wheel tender that, with a bit of coupler manipulation, can pull quite an assortment of different manufacturer cars.  i couple one up to a Dorfan freight set quite often and of course there are Lionel freight and passenger cars that will work well with it as 3-4 car consists.

here are three images i pulled off Live Auctioneers site.
each one of these three lots with a #257/ #258 locomotive sold for ~$150.

#257 locomotive/tender freight train w/ #650 series cars...

258 freight

#258 locomotive/tender passenger set w/ #529/ #530 cars...

258 passenger set

excellent condition #258 locomotive/ tender...

Lionel 258

cheers...gary

Gary, thanks for the great suggestion....ironically, I was spending some time on youtube last night and my attention quickly went to a couple videos highlighting sets being pulled by a 258 and a few 'reviews' of newly acquired 258's w/ tenders.   I'm not sure how available they are, but a 258 is currently at the top of my list...a set included for $150 would be outstanding!  I may or may not have mentioned, but mint condition is not a big priority....a decent looking running set is fine with me.  

Thanks  again for taking the time and sharing your thoughts...

Mint condition need not be a priority, after all some patina just adds to the mystique.  It's really 90 years old!  But, I'm willing to pay a couple bucks more for a nice car overall.  In my world, quality pays for itself in terms of satisfaction of what I bought, what I have.  I have a couple projects, but overall I want my stuff to run and look nice doing it.  I'm not buying anything else, because I don't need it, and I have two 390s to get running before I would even consider buying another engine.  I'm happy with my collection.  So, I guess that's my angle.  Every one is different.  Good luck finding your niche, so to speak.

Marx is another manufacturer you may want to check into. Not as elaborate as Lionel or AF, but still good solid and reliable trains. They don't command the same kind of money as the big guys, so you can start small and work your way up to Lionel/AF. They made tinplate trains into the 1970's so their stuff is plentiful. Also, Marx stuff is easy to work on and kinda cute too. They are what got me into tinplate.

20171123_174907

 

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Last edited by handyandy
handyandy posted:

Marx is another manufacturer you may want to check into. Not as elaborate as Lionel or AF, but still good solid and reliable trains. They don't command the same kind of money as the big guys, so you can start small and work your way up to Lionel/AF. They made tinplate trains into the 1970's so their stuff is plentiful. Also, Marx stuff is easy to work on and kinda cute too. They are what got me into tinplate.

20171123_174907

 

Thanks, handyandy.  I've not written Marx off....I really do enjoy the more toy like (almost cartoon-like) appearance, but kind of assumed the lack of respect they seem to get, meant they weren't something to take too seriously.  It  looks like there are plenty of boxed sets available over on the auctionbay.   Does Marx stuff show up at typical train swap meets or shows?  

papawdal posted:
handyandy posted:

Marx is another manufacturer you may want to check into. Not as elaborate as Lionel or AF, but still good solid and reliable trains. They don't command the same kind of money as the big guys, so you can start small and work your way up to Lionel/AF. They made tinplate trains into the 1970's so their stuff is plentiful. Also, Marx stuff is easy to work on and kinda cute too. They are what got me into tinplate.

 

 

Thanks, handyandy.  I've not written Marx off....I really do enjoy the more toy like (almost cartoon-like) appearance, but kind of assumed the lack of respect they seem to get, meant they weren't something to take too seriously.  It  looks like there are plenty of boxed sets available over on the auctionbay.   Does Marx stuff show up at typical train swap meets or shows?  

All the time. At least here in the Raleigh NC area. Most all of my Marx (and tin in general) has been bought at local train shows.Most "serious" collectors still look down their nose at Marx, but the tide is changing. I see more and more Marx stuff actually on the tables instead of in boxes underneath!    In fact, There's one vendor that I've struck up a bit of a friendship with who goes out of his way to find nice Marx stuff to to tempt me with at almost every show! 

I enjoy the lithography of the Marx trains and other early tinplate. I find the litho tin much more interesting than plain painted tin trains. Marx also made a more scale looking series of tinplate trains that are pretty cool to collect too.

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Yes, Marx is everywhere at train meets and the condition ranges from for spare parts only to pristine.  My personal opinion is that because the trains were inexpensive (compared to Lionel and AF) they were not only purchased more often but kids were allowed a greater latitude with respect to playing with them - which means they got used (gasp!!!) .  This also means a lot of people have never seen Marx in anything other than very used condition and, I think, this is the reason many people don't think much of the brand.  

  As someone who enjoys lithographed tin I can tell you that Marx's lithography in good condition, while of simpler design, is every bit as impressive as litho from AF, Ives, Bing, etc. and when I'm running trains Marx fits right in with the rest. So, long story short - I'd second Handyandy's Marx recommendation.

I think based on the black frame trucks and the car frame skirt, those would have had the curley cue couplers which are not reproduced.  With a little patience, you could find some junker 1938 cars on ebay to rob those couplers from, buy some correct rivets from a parts source and reinstall the couplers correctly.  Definitely doable and worth while since the cars are in such nice shape. I had to do the same thing for my AF 429 switcher tender with the later link coupler trucks.

curley cue coupler

 

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papawdal posted:
William 1 posted:

  I was able to find some very smooth running engines, a decent collection of 500 freight cars, and three passenger sets on eBay. 

 

500 freight cars?...wow.  I've already (in my mind) set aside a bit of space in my basement as 'trainspace'...but .not sure I am thinking big enough!

 

I believe William 1 is talking about the 500 series of Standard Gauge freight cars, not a quantity of 500.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:
papawdal posted:
William 1 posted:

  I was able to find some very smooth running engines, a decent collection of 500 freight cars, and three passenger sets on eBay. 

 

500 freight cars?...wow.  I've already (in my mind) set aside a bit of space in my basement as 'trainspace'...but .not sure I am thinking big enough!

 

I believe William 1 is talking about the 500 series of Standard Gauge freight cars, not a quantity of 500.

Rusty

Oh.....my bad.   

I do know guys that have a couple hundred radios, so.....     

I have 16 standard gauge 500 series eight cars.  One of each of the 9 car types with the others being a different color of the same type.  I may be missing a couple color combos, but I like what I have and don't really need any more.  Maybe down the road I'll look for another car here and there.  I'd be happy with one of each tin color offered.  I know there is a 513 cattle car with a maroon roof and another tank car scheme maybe.  I don't need every variation, copper vs nickel journals and trim etc.  I'm pretty good with what I have for now.  It's a pretty cool little collection.  That is just one way to do it I guess.  Cheers.

Last edited by William 1

500 pieces isn't really a "big" collection if your train lengths are averaged at a decent length. I have between 25 and 30 "modest" engines, 5 -10 cars per engine average.

Lets say it's 27 engines x 8 cars each= about 200 pieces counting engines and tenders seperately.. I stopped counting at 27&180.... Sound about right?   Just under 10 years ago  I started up again with 5 engines and about 80 cars, most from my youth. One was the buried tin Marx set. I have 4 tin now, all Marx. I love tin in general, but I likely won't pick up much Lionel tin as Gramps and Great Gramps were serious collectors and that tin was pretty much pristine, and kept behind showcase glass. From their grooming cues, I just dont look at those high end brass accented jewels with play in mind. They don't hold the same kind of attaction. I'm much more an operator than collector and hope Marx remains low priced or drops. Drops? To compliment my train hoarding nature . After all, I'm not as likely to sell them as buy the  

The 6" bobber's animated action is more apealing to my toy side too  

papawdal posted:

Good morning, Tinplaters!  Let me start by saying that I have very, very little experience with model trains, and none at all with O guage or prewar of any sort!  I’ve always had a passion for old things (radios, pocketknives, books, music….) and a couple months ago when an interest in model trains (to have here for grandkids) was sparked, someone from another forum suggested prewar trains to me.  I’ve been enthralled ever since.  I had no idea that these trains were even available. This forum page just feeds the fire!  I love the fact that they are more toy-like, instead of so model-like.  There is a TCA show a couple hours from me in a couple weeks that I am planning on attending.... I’ve been scouring ebay the last few weeks, but think it better to avoid an online deal right now, as I have no clue what is what…and what it might be worth. So, I’ve got the show on my calendar.   However, I have ran across an American Flyer set from 1938 (?) somewhat local to me that has my interest…

 

From the pics, the cars look to be in decent shape, although a couple couplers are missing.  The loco is a 2-4-4 with the front truck missing, the wheels missing off of the rear truck, the rear truck is detached and it's untested….but it looks in nice shape.  I’ve got a couple questions –  How difficult (and how expensive) to find a front truck and repair this unit?. The rear wheels, I assume, are easy enough to come up with.   I’d also like opinion on the value of this set, as is.  There are original boxes for the cars and loco, along with track, but no transformer.   If it’s not allowed to talk price here, maybe a private message?  Would this be something to start with?.... I’d be interested in hearing any advice on getting started in this hobby….I know there is plenty to learn.  I wish to find someone local that might be able to advise and help me along.

Thanks in advance!  I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys..

Dean

papawdal posted:

Good morning, Tinplaters!  Let me start by saying that I have very, very little experience with model trains, and none at all with O guage or prewar of any sort!  I’ve always had a passion for old things (radios, pocketknives, books, music….) and a couple months ago when an interest in model trains (to have here for grandkids) was sparked, someone from another forum suggested prewar trains to me.  I’ve been enthralled ever since.  I had no idea that these trains were even available. This forum page just feeds the fire!  I love the fact that they are more toy-like, instead of so model-like.  There is a TCA show a couple hours from me in a couple weeks that I am planning on attending.... I’ve been scouring ebay the last few weeks, but think it better to avoid an online deal right now, as I have no clue what is what…and what it might be worth. So, I’ve got the show on my calendar.   However, I have ran across an American Flyer set from 1938 (?) somewhat local to me that has my interest…

 

From the pics, the cars look to be in decent shape, although a couple couplers are missing.  The loco is a 2-4-4 with the front truck missing, the wheels missing off of the rear truck, the rear truck is detached and it's untested….but it looks in nice shape.  I’ve got a couple questions –  How difficult (and how expensive) to find a front truck and repair this unit?. The rear wheels, I assume, are easy enough to come up with.   I’d also like opinion on the value of this set, as is.  There are original boxes for the cars and loco, along with track, but no transformer.   If it’s not allowed to talk price here, maybe a private message?  Would this be something to start with?.... I’d be interested in hearing any advice on getting started in this hobby….I know there is plenty to learn.  I wish to find someone local that might be able to advise and help me along.

Thanks in advance!  I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys..

Dean

papawdal, I recently acquired the exact same set of trains.  We bought a box at a consignment store and got a Lionel set from thecearly 70’s and this set from 1938!

My engine does not work (yet) but displays very nicely.

JTHulburtCFA4D20B-6227-4DCC-8583-C75E5D2CC4D1

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JTHULBURT posted:
papawdal, I recently acquired the exact same set of trains.  We bought a box at a consignment store and got a Lionel set from thecearly 70’s and this set from 1938!

My engine does not work (yet) but displays very nicely.

JTHulburtCFA4D20B-6227-4DCC-8583-C75E5D2CC4D1

I like the way they look, too!  Nice!   

This set is still available. I've recently been in touch with seller....I'm planning on heading to a show next Saturday, looking for something Lionel.  If I come home empty-handed, I don't know how much longer I can let this AF set go....seller is ready to negotiate!   Although I'd like something ready to run, this is a nice looking little set.  Thanks for sharing yours.

Dennis Holler posted:

It's bad when you seem to collect engines more than anything else..  I think I'm over 200, though I can't count that high.. I probably can only provide 3-4 cars per engine   Can't waste money on cars when there are engine's out there that need saved!

and I thought I had a problem.....and last I knew I was still in the 30s engine wise......I've picked up several cars in the last few months and have my eye on some more. But rebuilding the engines has been a mainstay for the shop the last year or so.And I picked up two more engine projects last week, and still have three ahead of them to finish.Dang things are additive.

had to take a count after this post....with my K4 parts box from the show last week I'm at 41....

Last edited by Steamer

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