New Vision Line Rio Grande Challengers

Super O Bob posted:

Hi Ogr...  I just opened and tested my first New Run VL challenger...  the 3800 Rio Grande.  I really love it...

Here are some observations...

1.  The Boiler no longer has the 'HIGH WATER' look of the first VL Challengers!  This was something I was begging Lionel to get fixed...  looks like its lowered about 1/8th inch.  Looks GREAT!

2.  I dont see a kinematic drawbar...

3.  The dynamo has some pins added so it stays in place much better.

4.  This VL run DOES NOT include scale pilot wheels like first run. (At least this first one i opened doesnt have them).  They were not listed in the Features list either.

5.  Overall paint, appearance and operation is great...

6.  The drivers are mounted symmetrical...

Curious, what does this mean?

I will add to this post thru the day as i test and open challengers.

 

 

Looks good Bob - look forward to a video and Pics of the Green boiler Version.

Hi Blue...  you and I like the same things.  I will be opening a green up next.  Here are more pics of the 3800.

Hot Water posted:

Super O Bob posted:

operation is great...

6.  The drivers are mounted symmetrical...

Curious, what does this mean?

 

 

 

Hi Hot Water...  i should have said 'in sync' not symmetrical to match the sync'ed sound set!

I may send in for the articulated sounds on one of these (but then would take a set of drivers out of sync) like the first run of VL Challengers had...

Here is the Green Boiler 3805...  i love it...  the tender graphics are really cool!  It is a fantasy scheme as all RG challengers of this type were black boiler and speed lettered (post 1941)...

But its still very cool...  and adds some flavor to the shelf of black steamers!

Smoking up the trainroom!  Looks like bygone era of steam!

I love the dynamo smoke effect!

Hi Bob,

After all your posts recently on these Challengers, happy to see you finally have possession!  Great to watch the anticipation building, then the enthusiasm of running a new locomotive for the first time.

Enjoy!

Gary

Hi Gary!  Yea its anticipation...  but worth it!

I had a big order show up, so will be posting more...  lots of new freightcars that look great too...

Tho not a fan of the green example, they do look like mighty fine locos...not our fathers' Lionels, that's for sure!

Mark in Oregon

PS: "Super O Bob": Hope it was ok to use one of your pictures... 

Yes i post to share...

Super O Bob posted:

I may send in for the articulated sounds on one of these (but then would take a set of drivers out of sync) like the first run of VL Challengers had...

Hang on, did I miss something or is it possible for Lionel to add articulated sounds if you send the engine in? And who un-synchs the drivers? Sure looks like they all came from the factory in synch. 

Very fine looking models, Bob. The detailing looks crisp.

If I was to pick a western roadname to run, it'd be the D&RG. As it is now, the Milwaukee Road is as far west as my railroad goes, and that's a good thing for the old wallet.

Hancock...  Anything is possible...  i think we are waiting for an announcement...

Hi Bob,

Is the Chuff correct on your Challengers?

Well, it is correct for drivers that are in sync.  All challengers in this run appear to have drivers in sync.

The articulated sounds are usually heard under speed step 14.  Above that speed, my other articulated engines have sounds in sync.

This challenger has sounds in sync at these low speeds also.

There is a fair amount written about the green boiler jackets on DRGW steam engines, which engines had them and which didn't, and when. There has also been discussion about the color of the green. Seems most evidence points to a "dark olive green," including a notation on the DRGW Standard Practice manual which stated this. It was also the color chosen by the Colorado Railroad Museum after careful research, and also based on a paint sample found during a restoration. Obviously, that is quite different from the green shade Lionel used on these Challengers. However, if someone is concerned about prototypicality of the color, there is enough wiggle space in the "room for doubt" tent to allow many folks to avoid being overly concerned by the color.

Thanks Breeze...  It looks more like catalog art color...  i would have liked a dark olive for this...

Hello Bob. They are great looking engines!  I’ve always liked the Challengers, but they are a bit too big for my layout. I get my articulated fix from a Legacy NKP Mallet - I love the look of the articulated engines.

One more quick question on colors: are the smoke boxes and fire boxes battleship gray or are they the darker graphite that has been used on Legacy steamers in the past?  It’s a bit difficult to tell from the photos.

Again, great engines and I hope you enjoy them for years to come! 

I really like that green boiler   

I'm not sure I could "wiggle" enough to imagine that Lionel color is like the prototype pictured!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm not sure I could "wiggle" enough to imagine that Lionel color is like the prototype pictured!

No, I couldn't, either, but wanted to offer a mental "escape hatch" for folks with the engine. 

Some people will probably like it, but to me the color looks like they used leftover paint from some Christmas engines. It's quite clear that the color is way off. Makes one wonder who at Lionel is "minding the store" in China.   

Well, on the plus-side, the green color is more Christmas-like and is similar to catalog artists painting, but a bit of stretch than the prototype that was pictured, above.

Looks great to me! 

How about a video of them?

Paul Kallus posted:

Well, on the plus-side, the green color is more Christmas-like than the catalog depiction, but a bit of stretch than the prototype and may be more of a GN green.

Not even close.

This green can't be right. For anything. Not to mention that the DRGW UP-design Challengers were never painted green.

They did have some green-boilered 4-8-4's (Weaver offered them, but I can't find that photo).

=======

Wasn't aware of a "high water" look on the Lionel Challenger boiler; I do't have a Vision  version, but I do have the Clinchfield TMCC version. The boiler sits properly, it seems.

D500 posted:

Wasn't aware of a "high water" look on the Lionel Challenger boiler; I do't have a Vision  version, but I do have the Clinchfield TMCC version. The boiler sits properly, it seems.

Yes.  I cant bare to look at my first run VL challenger.  The JLC is fine and doesnt have the boiler shimmed up.  But the FIRST RUN  VL challenger has a boiler that sits high on the chassis.  The new VL Challengers are corrected and look great.

Super O Bob posted:

D500 posted:

Wasn't aware of a "high water" look on the Lionel Challenger boiler; I do't have a Vision  version, but I do have the Clinchfield TMCC version. The boiler sits properly, it seems.

Yes.  I cant bare to look at my first run VL challenger.  The JLC is fine and doesnt have the boiler shimmed up.  But the FIRST RUN  VL challenger has a boiler that sits high on the chassis.  The new VL Challengers are corrected and look great.

I'll be glad to take it off your hands for a greatly discounted price!

Rider Sandman posted:

One more quick question on colors: are the smoke boxes and fire boxes battleship gray or are they the darker graphite that has been used on Legacy steamers in the past?  It’s a bit difficult to tell from the photos.

Again, great engines and I hope you enjoy them for years to come! 

Hi Sandman...  this is a grey...  there is no metallic in it.  It matches the 3985 grey i think...  and later photos of 3985 look really close to that...  so where the Berks and USRAs looked wierd with the primer grey, these look better, but they are not a graphite...

The Green is brighter than i expected...  but it really looks like the catalog art...  maybe it was painted when the christmas engines were painted!  It looks like a green zinc chromate, like interior cab green...

It doesnt look bad on my shelf with other engines...  so i am ok with it...  i would like the dark olive color better...  so will ask for that next york...

D500 posted:

This green can't be right. For anything. Not to mention that the DRGW UP-design Challengers were never painted green.

They did have some green-boilered 4-8-4's (Weaver offered them, but I can't find that photo).

=======

Wasn't aware of a "high water" look on the Lionel Challenger boiler; I do't have a Vision  version, but I do have the Clinchfield TMCC version. The boiler sits properly, it seems.

Yes, and those Green Weaver 4-8-4s are very hard to find... especially the later version one... They got the color spot on, just the way the shops painted them , Greenish Black..  Olive-ish, similar to Brunswick Green... 

But it would be an easy repaint if you wanted. And other than that, those Challengers are BIT**IN'!

Super O Bob posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

One more quick question on colors: are the smoke boxes and fire boxes battleship gray or are they the darker graphite that has been used on Legacy steamers in the past?  It’s a bit difficult to tell from the photos.

Again, great engines and I hope you enjoy them for years to come! 

Hi Sandman...  this is a grey...  there is no metallic in it.  It matches the 3985 grey i think...  and later photos of 3985 look really close to that...  so where the Berks and USRAs looked wierd with the primer grey, these look better, but they are not a graphite...

The Green is brighter than i expected...  but it really looks like the catalog art...  maybe it was painted when the christmas engines were painted!  It looks like a green zinc chromate, like interior cab green...

It doesnt look bad on my shelf with other engines...  so i am ok with it...  i would like the dark olive color better...  so will ask for that next york...

Bob, I think the green is fanciful and cool. Like you’ve said: it looks like what they said it would. Have fun with the new engines - they are supposed to be a source of enjoyment!  Keep feeding us pics and vids. 

Rider Sandman posted:

Bob, I think the green is fanciful ...... 

OK, except the engine wasn't supposed to be a fantasy engine. Maybe Lionel has been doing so many fantasy engines lately they can no longer distinguish real from fantasy.  

Here's a photo of Lionel's GN Heavy Mikado that  I purchased from a Forum Member a few years back.  I really enjoy this model, although the lack of engine specific crew talk is a bummer (to me) and has kept me from buying other Heavy Mikados. 

However, the green is very attractive and very close to the prototype.

So, why didn't Lionel use this green on the GN 2-6-6-2 and the aforementioned Rio Grande Challenger?

Bob:  Black Rio Grande Challenger looks great.  Thanks for posting.

Berkshire President posted:

Here's a photo of Lionel's GN Heavy Mikado that  I purchased from a Forum Member a few years back.  I really enjoy this model, although the lack of engine specific crew talk is a bummer (to me) and has kept me from buying other Heavy Mikados. 

However, the green is very attractive and very close to the prototype.

So, why didn't Lionel use this green on the GN 2-6-6-2 and the aforementioned Rio Grande Challenger?

That 2-6-6-2 was also much criticized for it's incorrect color. In that case, it was way off the catalog color as well, which, although wrong as well, was somewhat closer to correct. Lionel was seriously asleep at the wheel on this one as well. It's all pretty strange, given that they did the colors correctly on both the Heavy Mikado and the Light Mikado (a picture of mine is below). The Sunset/3rd Rail engine is shown below that, also in the correct color. Even going back to the Gt. Northern 3100 Northern steam engine from MPC days, with its dark green paint, Lionel never went astray as badly as they have with that 2-6-6-2, and now with the Rio Grande Challenger. Very disappointing, especially given that historically color fidelity has been pretty good at Lionel. Clearly someone there is not paying attention these days. They've also had serious problems with colors on Great Northern diesels (particularly the orange) in recent years, which is well documented, and the orange color on Rio Grande diesels as well. 

2-6-6-2 as produced:

2-6-6-2 catalog picture:

Lionel Great Northern Legacy Light Mikado:

Sunset/3rd Rail Great Northern Mikado:

Here is a pic of my HEAVY MIKE and it looks close to DRGW dark olive boiler color (to me) as was pictured previously on that RG restored engine...

Not to get off topic, but that Lionel GN Heavy Mike is a really neat, underrated loco....IMHO.  It's a nice change of pace from the predominantly black steamers that I have and like all the scale Mikes, it looks really good on 0-72 and 0-63 with no apparent overhang.

Super O Bob posted:

Here is the Green Boiler 3805...  i love it...  the tender graphics are really cool!  It is a fantasy scheme as all RG challengers of this type were black boiler and speed lettered (post 1941)...

But its still very cool...  and adds some flavor to the shelf of black steamers!

breezinup posted

That 2-6-6-2 was also much criticized for it's incorrect color. In that case, it was way off the catalog color as well, which, although wrong as well, was somewhat closer to correct. Lionel was seriously asleep at the wheel on this one as well. It's all pretty strange, given that they did the colors correctly on both the Heavy Mikado and the Light Mikado (a picture of mine is below). The Sunset/3rd Rail engine is shown below that, also in the correct color. Even going back to the Gt. Northern 3100 Northern steam engine from MPC days, with its dark green paint, Lionel never went astray as badly as they have with that 2-6-6-2, and now with the Rio Grande Challenger. Very disappointing, especially given that historically color fidelity has been pretty good at Lionel. Clearly someone there is not paying attention these days. They've also had serious problems with colors on Great Northern diesels (particularly the orange) in recent years, which is well documented, and the orange color on Rio Grande diesels as well. 

2-6-6-2 as produced:

 

So both of these locomotives should have been this Green color? 

breezinup posted:

Sunset/3rd Rail Great Northern Mikado:

I believe so, Bobby.  But keep in mind that when referring to the Third Rail photo, Lionel may NOT have had access to that exact shade of green.

I'd like to think they could replicate what was on the GN Heavy Mike....but what do I know:  

BobbyD posted:

Super O Bob posted:

Here is the Green Boiler 3805...  i love it...  the tender graphics are really cool!  It is a fantasy scheme as all RG challengers of this type were black boiler and speed lettered (post 1941)...

But its still very cool...  and adds some flavor to the shelf of black steamers!

 

breezinup posted

That 2-6-6-2 was also much criticized for it's incorrect color. In that case, it was way off the catalog color as well, which, although wrong as well, was somewhat closer to correct. Lionel was seriously asleep at the wheel on this one as well. It's all pretty strange, given that they did the colors correctly on both the Heavy Mikado and the Light Mikado (a picture of mine is below). The Sunset/3rd Rail engine is shown below that, also in the correct color. Even going back to the Gt. Northern 3100 Northern steam engine from MPC days, with its dark green paint, Lionel never went astray as badly as they have with that 2-6-6-2, and now with the Rio Grande Challenger. Very disappointing, especially given that historically color fidelity has been pretty good at Lionel. Clearly someone there is not paying attention these days. They've also had serious problems with colors on Great Northern diesels (particularly the orange) in recent years, which is well documented, and the orange color on Rio Grande diesels as well. 

2-6-6-2 as produced:

 

So both of these locomotives should have been this Green color? 

breezinup posted:

Sunset/3rd Rail Great Northern Mikado:

 

The 3Rd rail looks right, except for the mag wheels.