New ZW-L Inaccurate??

I agree, and said all along, that the actual voltage reading doesn';t matter.  But I never thought this thread was inappropriate or bad.  I do think it was much more balanced in tone once the two question marks were added to the title.

SandJam reported something I think most of us would want reported on this forum - sort of what it is here for if you think about it.  Early on I did say it was not that important but it did make me go back and reexamine/re-measure mine and think about why descrepencies like that might exist.  Ultimately, it led everyone who took the time to a better understanding of the limitations the ZW-L's meters, and the Z4000's displays for that matter.  The tone of discussion, the mis-information to information ratio, and the griping content all may have gone off course a few times, but the thread ultimately did some good.

You buy a transformer and TPC  you still need a Legacy

system to control the TPC output.

With the ZW L, you can control the trains without

Legacy or if you want to play with technology,

there are some interesting features that Legacy can

use to control the ZW L. There is something for everyone

with the ZW L.

If you want a large power transformer that can be controlled,

get a Right of Way 500 watt transformer.

For the setting on the handles to be correct the AC input must

be stable, is yours?

Good point here. When I had a home darkroom, I had a constant voltage regulator for the enlarger so the light output and spectrum would not vary from day to day. The spec for AC power from the power company used to be 120VAC +/- 5%. However my line voltage stays pretty close to 123 to 126VAC most of the time. The higher it is, the higher the bill

I've enjoyed this thread and think I've learned some things about transformers I didn't know before.  I don't want to be responsible for beating a dead horse any more than need be, but...

in my first post I mentioned that having used my ZW-L for a limited time I was pleased with it's performance and it felt like I was getting better performance from my locomotives.  What I could not understand was why?  On my old ZW's I had routinely set the handles for 18 volts to the track.  When I set up the new ZW-L I programed the A-U and D-U channels at 18 volts according to their respective voltage meters.  It would seem 18 volts would be 18 volts.  So why was I seeing what I preceived to be a difference in the performance of the locomotives.  They, particularly some of the older locomotives (I use TMCC), simply seemed to rum more smoothly.  

Yesterday, I again ran some trains and moved some cars around so I could work on a particular part of the railroad.  During that operation I noticed that my Realtrax switches seemed to have more "snap" in them when they were thrown.  It dawned on me that the difference I was seeing between the performance of ZW's and the ZW-L might be because perhaps the ZW's were not providing the voltage I thought they were and the ZW-L programmed using the meters was providing more power to the railroad.  Hence, my locomotives were operating more smoothly/better.  I hope I have made some sense of this.  If so would that explain why I have been seeing what I believe has been better locomotive performance from the ZW-L or is there something more that I'm not getting.  If I wanted to test the assumption, would I need a voltage meter of some sort to do so?  Thank you, Bo 

Visit my website Bo's Trains at http://www.bostrains.com

perhaps to lighten things up a bit,

What's a ZW-L?

ZW-L,  ZW Legacy

The issue is the waveform output of the newer electronic transformers can be modified in ways a classic step down variable tap transformer can't.  All of these changes allow a well made modern transformer to do things the PW units could not do.  They are shaping the waveform to maximize power delivered to a device while minimizing the potential damaging side effects that applying raw increased voltage would do.  

These modified waveforms make it difficult to measure the voltage output as this is still AC current but it's no longer a 60 hz sine wave.  You could buy a high end tricked out multimeter and take measurements like peak to peak or who know what to your hearts content.  Not sure what that will accomplish but if you can afford it and it makes YOU happy, go for it.

It's the latest/newest version of Lionel's popular ZW transformer.  Looks generally similar to the original ZW in terms of design, but with lots of added features.

It is also significantly physically larger.  This isn't evident in the catalog illustrations.  In those it looks like a PW ZW that's been jacked up.  In real life it looks like a ZW that's been scaled up to about twice the original size.

Originally posted by chuck:

It is also significantly physically larger.  This isn't evident in the catalog illustrations.  In those it looks like a PW ZW that's been jacked up.  In real life it looks like a ZW that's been scaled up to about twice the original size.

Chuck, could the ZW-L be described as a ZW on steroids?   

Really Chuck, thanks for responding to my post.  No, I'm not really interested in going to great lengths to compare the voltage outputs or sine waves of the two transformers.  I was just wanting to try to understand why it was that the TMCC locomotives I had been running since hooking up the ZW-L seemed to me to run noticeably better.  Was it my imagination (because I had made such an investment in the new transformer) or was what I percieved as improved locomotive performance real.  There has been discussion about the ZW-L's appearance and new features, but not a lot has been said about locomotive performance and that is something that struck me right off.  It is also what is most important to me.  What you said in your post about modified waveforms makes sense to me.  The improvements I have seen in performance have mostly been with my older TMCC locomotives, but that is what I have been running of late.  In a sense I think I was looking for validation that what I was preceiving was real as by-in-large the improvements are subtle and it wasn't just wishful thinking.  It's not like my locomotives were poor performers, they're good solid reliable locomotives.  Now they just seem to operate a little better.

What I am really interested in is getting best possible performance from the transformer and the locomotives and accessories it powers.  So far I have been real pleased with the new transformer.  Thank you again, Bo       

Visit my website Bo's Trains at http://www.bostrains.com

Bo, An AC voltmeter might tell you something about why your trains appear to run smoother with the new transformer. I'm not familiar with setup on the new transformer but assuming its one large 600 watt transformer split into 4 circuits then it would have an advantage over the 250-275 watt ZW. The secondary wiring would be of a larger gauge giving a lower internal resistance. Grades and curves require more current which translates into greater voltage drop inside the transformer. The ZW-L would have a lower voltage drop given the same load than the ZW. You should be able to see that on your voltmeter.

Pete

Are you "running smoother-runners" coming from sine wave outputs and then to the shark's tooth output of the ZW-L?

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the response.  I understand what you are saying.  I don't have an AC voltmeter, but it might be a good instrument to have available.  I'll see how expensive they are and go from there.  Thanks, Bo   

Visit my website Bo's Trains at http://www.bostrains.com

Bo, A good multimeter will be able to measure AC volts and maybe AC amps depending on the model. Don't limit yourself to a single function device. You'll find many more uses for it when you get it especially on the layout.

Pete

Here're a couple of sellers of Fluke true RMS meters...

I don't know these shops, just looked for Fluke which I like.

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/dmm/115.htm

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=FLU115&source=froogle&kw=FLU115

i'll bet lionel wishes they never put those meters on!

cjack, thanks for the info on the meters, I'll check them out.

rjconklin, I really don't know what Lionel thinks, but I figure they must be pretty happy with them.  I like them well enough, they're pretty cool.  I particularly like knowing how many amps are being utilized by the four channels at any given time.  IMHO it's a great transformer all the way around.  It's everything I had hoped it would be and actually a little more.  Bo 

Visit my website Bo's Trains at http://www.bostrains.com   

Why?  Just because a few here want to pick things apart (nothing new there, regardless of maker or product)?

I imagine 99% of ZW-L purchasers will view the meters as a useful and welcome addition.  I personally think this is a very cool transformer--one of those infrequent major purchases that will last a lifetime and meet the power needs of a vast majority of operators in this hobby.

Right. The only thing better would be meters that would stay switched to the output you desired...or better still, 8 meters.

If nothing else, with their backlighting, the meters make the ZW-L look fantastic. 

Where I have my unit installed on a shelf under the benchtop I have to bend down to get a good accurate read and i've done that only occasionally - but I'm certainly glad I have them.  More important though, as a person walks up the stairs to the trainroom, they are looking right at the unit, with its blue LIONEL and its four glowing eyes, hovering there above the stairs like some big animal.   I realize this does not make the trains go one iota better but it adds a good bit of visual drama to the trainroom.