No More Opening Doors?!

I never really understood the opening door thing. I don't have many....but the few I do I don't really like....the things they do to make them open does 'harm' the pure scale effect to me....but I come from a long HO background where they were NO opening doors IIRC.

I can do without opening doors: the new Legacy E8/9s and Sharks have them.  Rather silly actually (particularly since those of theshark open only about a scale 12 inches room to squeeze in).  

 

I can't recall if the most recent Premier diesel unit I bought had them or not - I simply did not check.  I have Legacy diesels obtained recently that do and I think.  I'm totally okay with that as long as MTH makes the seams/doors look realistic.

The problem with opening doors on models is it usually results in grossly out of scale hinges, can be fragile and may also cause issues during the decoration process.

 

Rusty

The problem with opening doors is that they have to make the hinges oversize to work especially in plastic.   It is kind of like the very oversized door channels on older boxcars.   It does detract from the appearance in my opinion.    Another issue is that most have some sort of funky (non-prototypical) spring loaded mechanism to keep the door closed.   

 

All opinions, of course.

I would not miss opening doors 

I can see where someone who likes to model and/or  photograph specific situations, such as an engineer figure entering, leaving or standing in an open cab doorway, might desire opening doors. For the rest of us, it is a feature that just adds cost with little return. There are lots of things a prototype engine does that models do not. As we keep pushing the envelope the complexity and price of our engines keeps going up. If a large enough number of buyers want a particular feature it would make sense for the manufacturer, but in cases such as this it may not. The length of this thread, with associated views, may eventually provide a straw poll.

 

To me, opening doors on diesel locos and passenger cars is a waste of money.

I have yet to see an engineer use the opening doors on any of my locos. I will keep watching to see if it happens but I doubt that little guy will ever vacate his seat. Since the doors are never opened except with my finger I will never miss that feature.

I buy modern 2-rail diesels & I do not like the opening doors on MTH Premier Locomotives. The front end of my Premier SD70M-2 that I bought in 2006 looked bad just because of this opening door. The door stood out from the front end because of the thickness of the plastic. The door might have looked realistic in front of a bank vault or nuclear blast shelter (from Hollywood movies) but looked terrible on a locomotive.

I didn’t realize that MTH stopped offering opening doors on Premier locomotives. The BNSF ES44AC I bought last Christmas had a realistic front door that actually fit inside the frame but I never cared to verify if the door opens.

These are just my opinion.

Naveen Rajan

On the very high end models I have been known to glue hatches shut just so I could perform routine maintenance whthout breaking stuff.  What kind of modeler puts sand in his dome?  I have no use for operating doors and hatches.

 

On the other hand, the original poster is a subway guy, and when a train stops, all the doors automatically open.  A different game?

I've discovered after the fact that I own a few MTH Premier engines with opening doors. They certainly had no bearing on my decision to buy. Now that I know they do open, I still don't bother trying to do so. As long as they stay shut, I'm a happy camper.

 

Gilly

On an Atlas model. Takes awhile to figure how to open it.  Surprise, turn the handle.

I'd like automatically opening doors on a subway, but I don't use the opening doors on many of my Legacy and MTH locomotives.  I'm with Bill, my engineers get glued to the seats, so they don't have any use for the opening doors.

 

This would be a great opportunity for GunrunnerJohn to make an engine crew person figure, to open the door, and wave or spit tobacco Juice (grose). How bout it Gunny, that way this addition won't be for naught!.................................Brandy!

 

P.S. How did you say that you got the Fireman to stick his head out of the cab window again? Man that was as good as the Super Puff-N-Chuff!

Most opening doors and hatches are useful only if you are going to do a set-piece scene, such as loading a freight car. How often does anybody do a set-piece scene with a crew member getting on or off a diesel? Opening doors just run up the cost and add something else that can break and MTH won't have the parts to fix it.

 

I do like the opening roof hatches on steam locos. Crews opened those in warm weather to cool the cab, and I run my steamers with the hatches open most of the time. Tender hatches hide TMCC/DCS operating switches, a huge improvement over putting them on the bottom.

 

Apart from the steam examples above, the only opening doors that are useful are on freight cars. Operators do set up scenes of loading a boxcar or icing a reefer, and some even go to the trouble of propping open reefer roof hatches to simulate running with empty ice reefers. I've never seen an open passenger car door on a layout. You could set up a scene of passengers boarding a passenger train, but few layouts have the room to sacrifice a siding the length of a passenger train to a scene of that kind. 

Meh.. one more irreplaceable plastic piece of s### to break off in the future.  Who opens doors on a plastic model anyways?

In my mind they are the best features for little kids to stick their little fingers into.

Some cars have people behind these little doors, crammed in, others have little animals.

I would becareful for what you ask for, these doors could disappear with an increase in price real quick!

 I like 'em. kids like 'em... I would keep em.

Regardless of how anyone feels about the opening doors,  a number of posters have pointed out that these doors add to the cost of production (true)and subsequently to the price the consumer pays (true).

 

So, if MTH is eliminating the opening doors on their premier engines, thus reducing production/labor costs, will they pass those savings on to the purchasers?

 

Ha, ha; right. What was i thinking......

Well, I do admit I am a subway modeler through and through, I am also a modeler of Amtrak, Norfolk Southern, and CSX. The main reason I bring up the door issue, even though I think more people blast the idea than like it, is because from my personal standpoint as a modeler it is awesome to be given a feature that is not only present on the actual engine, but not really given to any other scale (except for some G scale and HO scale.) No offense to the other scales but I love the fact that there is a feature that distinguishes O scale from the others, besides the pivoting trucks which is a whole other issue entirely. From a model standpoint I feel this argument can go both ways. Am I saying it's necessary, no, I just feel that it is an awesome feature to have and I hope that it is kept around.

And for those who say there is no need for the door, I interned for Amtrak and CSX and now work for the MTA, I have seen the cab doors being left opened during manifest/freight moves and even engine shunting to different parts of a yard multiple times and to prove it there is a video of it being done below. Overall I love the door idea and maybe I'm just a stickler for prototypical detail, I just hope MTH find a way to bring it back.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J10r6xlHApM

That would be cool.

 

You know - ( think a person could sell an upgrade kit that did that for a lot!

Too much mechanics involved, give me electronic projects.

 

I never understood haveing opening doors all the way back to the first of the Madison Cars. Heck, I still run many Crown box cars with no opening doors. Don

I think that I am a minority here, but I do like opening doors.  In OO/HO (British & European) scale most modern locomotives have opening doors, and in HO there are several models of passenger coaches where the doors can be opened remotely via a DCC controller. I'm sure that this feature could be adapted for O gauge passenger cars without too much trouble.

Well, the Lionel Acela has automatically opening doors, and from all reports, they are very troublesome.

 

Here's a link to a video that shows a Roco HO scale train with DCC controlled operating doors. I've actually seen these in action, and they are pretty cool. 

 

 

Count me as one that actually would pass on the opening doors.  It would be one thing if the oversized hinges wasn't one of the biggest detractors as others have mentioned, but the other issue is on some models with the doors that open on the front conductor's side of the cab  (not engines like the safety cab versions like Dash 9s, SD70 ACe, etc with a nose door but models of earlier generation hood units like the MTH SD50 & SD45T-2 with no nose door) the design is such that the doors are also way too narrow, also making the simulated windshield door glass too narrow; giving it a narrow, vertically "squinty" look that doesn't give a prototypically symmetrical look compared to the engineer's side window glass.

Opening doors on any "model" is great. Maybe $5-$10 each door worth of great. Automatic?? On a modern passenger car, I love it. Almost priceless. But a engineer turning to look in reverse, or bobbing his head out a window (or door) is what Im dreaming about lately. With different "blue man" bodies and/or heads, the assembly could be used for other crew positions, even passengers. Imagine a Vista dome full of people turning to look at the various sites on your layout. Is there a motor small enough to fit in a figures torso yet? I only know chances are good, and getting better.    

Amen.  I like opening doors, and so does my son.  I wish more of my locomotives had opening doors, as well as all of my passenger cars.

I am with Nicole, Adriatic  and Sinclair on this one. I think opening doors are cool!

 

Otherwise it's just molded plastic with a scribe'd door that looks like a door but is not a door..

The subway sets that followed had opening doors that were far more reliable, I believe.  (they also had tethers between the cars instead of IR)

 

-Dave

While I like opening doors on a boxcar (as long as the door tracks don't look too clunky, as many do), to me, small doors that open look bad because the hinges are usually way too big, plus it's just something else that is easily broken and likely to get lost. Even if the opening door can be made to look good, how will it look on the model if it has fallen off and gotten lost? Most small details like the hatches and latches on the roof of a reefer are far too delicate to stand up to much handling or transport (I run my trains on modules in several different scales, and they need to be transported to shows and other events).

 

Bill in FtL

Well, except for one area (see below), I find both sides of the opening door argument

a little picky. In most - not all - cases the opening "mechanism" cannot be seen, so it

neither adds nor detracts from the unit's appearance. One of my diesels does have the

scale-sized turn-the-handle front door, and that is nice in anybody's book - and it's not

spring-loaded (good), so it stays where you put it.

 

But why are there opening smokebox doors on steamers, that force those hinges, in most practical situations of use and manufacturing, to be inordinately large? In few cases does this permit access to anything except the headlight. If the entire front snapped on and off, using a guide slot or two and a friendly "snap" latch, the access would be 90% as easy and 100% better-looking.

Hey, Guys

From a dealer standpoint " Opening doors were a nightmare with customers" They would break them and then want them covered under warranty. I am all for non -operating doors even though they are a scale detail.

Thanks

Pat

WWW.PATSTRAINS.COM

 

Ditto. The more realistic options we get, the better "O" scale is looking and appealing. Having a Diesel on the siding, and a figure at the doorway does a lot to a realistic look. Samr for cabooses and passenger cars. I use these features on cars sitting on sidings, and add figures to them.

Rather then not wanting them because of oversized hinges, etc. we should ask for more realistic look/operation to them.

I don't understand opening doors or windows? How many times do you open the doors or slide a cab window opened anyway? One more detail piece to break or loose.  I can live with molded in doors.

As for operating or spring loaded doors, it’s a wasted design. I’ve never seen another option.

 

All the doors I have or seen when decorating customer items are spring loaded.

Unless you can leave them open and the door backs are also detailed, it’s pointless.

 

Only a hand full of modelers at best on this forum would want this feature but for the majority I don’t see it as being a value added feature.

I’d rather have the suppliers at least paint the handles so I don’t have to it.

 

The effort should be placed on blackened side wheels, not grey along with black axles & springs instead don’t ya think?

As for subways, glad MTH didn’t do that, it’s just a gimmick and I would never need to use them.

 

I have and like the Madison cars with their opening vestibule doors, along with prewar tin with exterior and interior doors, as well as toilet seats that can be raised. It's all part of the fun as far as I'm concerned.

Opening doors on engines, I can take them or leave them. But, if I have an engine with opening doors running with multiple units in a consist, a couple of open doors makes it look more like the real thing. A matter of preference I guess.

I also like them and my grandson likes them a lot as well, so do the other kids. Increased play value to get more youngsters into the hobby, I'm for keeping them.