Now I'm Really Confused...

I'm not sure I understand your question?

The old style open frame motors were "universal" and could run on AC or DC as discussed in your other thread. However, O and S gauge are and have generally been AC track power.

Despite modern locomotives generally using DC can motors these days, the locomotive unit as a whole expects the standard AC track power. For the components within the unit that require DC, it is converted internally from AC, the remainder is fed the AC directly.

Long story short, the DC motor within is powered with DC converted from the AC track power.

If you want to get real deep, you can begin to look at PWM and such that the electronics used to control the motor and whatnot.

DC current would immediately  destroy the TMCC / reverse unit board in the locomotive. The tender only carried the sound components. You can run the engine without it's proper tender.

Strummer posted:

...so what else is new? 

Recently I asked in the S gauge forum about running AC "universal" motors with DC.

Now that I've been able to access info regarding the Lionel #6-38036 LI 2-8-0, (thanks, Chuck!) I read from the operators manual that this engine is equipped with a DC motor, yet the next page it states something to the effect of "run this engine only with AC, as DC current may " ruin the circuitry".

What's up with that!?!? I understand that converting AC to DC has its advantages, but the opposite?  

Someone please explain.

Mark in Oregon

Nothing is simple anymore, the locomotive you sight is a "modern" AC design where it takes AC from the rails and modifies some of it to DC for various functions such as motor power while other functions use the AC. The motor is not a universal motor but a permanent magnet DC can motor that is electrically the same as HO and N scale motors just larger.

The old open frame universal motor used by Lionel, Marx, and Gilbert American Flyer use a wire wound coil on the frame to form the stator magnet these do not use a permanent magnet of contemporary motors. The universal motor is pretty happy to run on either AC or DC power.

Bogie

Okay, I got it now, thank you all for the explanations.

Seems a bit odd, mixing both AC and DC in one unit, but I suppose Lionel did this because of their long history of AC-powered stuff...

So the next question is: will I be able to run this engine just using a standard AC transformer? Or will it only operate with that TMCC control system? Judging by Mark's post, it looks like I may be able to just run this, without all those "bells and whistles"...(?)

Mark (this one) in Oregon

Strummer posted:

Okay, I got it now, thank you all for the explanations.

Seems a bit odd, mixing both AC and DC in one unit, but I suppose Lionel did this because of their long history of AC-powered stuff...

So the next question is: will I be able to run this engine just using a standard AC transformer? Or will it only operate with that TMCC control system? Judging by Mark's post, it looks like I may be able to just run this, without all those "bells and whistles"...(?)

Mark (this one) in Oregon

It's not really a long history of AC, although it is standard for 3 rail O to be AC on the track.  It's a compatibility reason.

But yes, all TMCC locomotives can run conventionally.  But like you said you loose some of the control features, like adjusting smoke levels while the train is running, and playing the extra sounds.

I think it would have been a lot simpler if the locomotives actually were coal powered steamers.

sinclair posted:

Strummer posted:

Okay, I got it now, thank you all for the explanations.

Seems a bit odd, mixing both AC and DC in one unit, but I suppose Lionel did this because of their long history of AC-powered stuff...

So the next question is: will I be able to run this engine just using a standard AC transformer? Or will it only operate with that TMCC control system? Judging by Mark's post, it looks like I may be able to just run this, without all those "bells and whistles"...(?)

Mark (this one) in Oregon

It's not really a long history of AC, although it is standard for 3 rail O to be AC on the track.  It's a compatibility reason.

But yes, all TMCC locomotives can run conventionally.  But like you said you loose some of the control features, like adjusting smoke levels while the train is running, and playing the extra sounds.

Thank you. That's exactly what I was hoping for. 

I've never ventured into the realm of models with all those effects; it just doesn't hold any interest for me, and seems like that stuff might fail and I won't be able to fix it myself; ya know, like modern cars.    That's one of the main attractions to me of the toy-train field: the beauty in its simplicity; I can fix just about anything with a few spare parts and a handful of very basic tools.

In any case, it appears that I got a really good deal on this (judging by the original price tag! ), and am hoping it will prove to be a happy purchase. And who knows? I might decide to someday explore all those "bells and whistles" after all...

Mark in Oregon

I think he said he didn't have the tender, which has the railsounds.

Wow, my thanks to everyone who has taken the time to "chime in"; I really appreciate all the effort.

Got notification today that this 2-8-0 is being shipped out; am looking forward to seeing what a modern Lionel steam engine looks like; the "finest" Lionel I've ever had prior was a 671, which was very nice for what it was, but could hardly be considered "scale". I'm guessing this LI engine is more in keeping with true 1/48 (?)

Guess we'll see! 

My plan is to use what I have on hand; an MRC 027 AC pack; it has a "whistle" spring-loaded switch on it, so when the time comes, I'll see what that does. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not really into the whole "sound" thing, as I've always worked towards making my (scale) trains run as quietly as possible.

In the meantime (and after, I suppose) I will keep my eyes peeled for a replacement tender that will at least look proper behind this very distinctive-looking engine.

Mark in Oregon