Now Really Confused About Future York Dates

York is no different than any other flea market or event where products are sold. It all comes down to economics 101;  to make a profit based upon supply and demand. Isn't that why the vendors exhibit there?

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Allan referred to an OGR dinner.  Are they one of the same dinner as the Forum dinner?

we will attend Thursday.  Look forward to it,

There is only one OGR dinner/gathering/drinkfest or whatever. It was/is traditionally held on Thursday evenings. For some years it was a bit more "formally" organized, but in recent times has been more of an informal gathering where folks just show up after a day of shopping at the meet and get together with friends, old and new, who also happen to be OGR Forum members, readers of the magazine, or just anyone who may want to associate with such characters. The restaurant adjacent to the Best Western has undergone several changes of ownership over the years, but I believe it is still a Quaker Steak & Lube.

I remember going to my first Thursday's at Friday's and asking "Who's Farmer Bill"? I think that was in 2004. Been going ever since.

Jim D.

Allan Miller posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Allan referred to an OGR dinner.  Are they one of the same dinner as the Forum dinner?

we will attend Thursday.  Look forward to it,

There is only one OGR dinner/gathering/drinkfest or whatever. It was/is traditionally held on Thursday evenings. For some years it was a bit more "formally" organized, but in recent times has been more of an informal gathering where folks just show up after a day of shopping at the meet and get together with friends, old and new, who also happen to be OGR Forum members, readers of the magazine, or just anyone who may want to associate with such characters. The restaurant adjacent to the Best Western has undergone several changes of ownership over the years, but I believe it is still a Quaker Steak & Lube.

As long as I get to see your cheerful expression when talking to me Allan, that would be all I need(and Guinness). Whatever days get changed, we'll all still be there one way or another.

Who is John Galt? 

Good Q.

Farmer_Bill posted:

Who is John Galt? 

A character in Atlas Shrugged. In short, he resisted a government that wanted to tell you what to think.

Now the question is, When do the doors open with the new dates?  9AM or 12NOON?

laz1957 posted:

Now the question is, When do the doors open with the new dates?  9AM or 12NOON?

Assuming they don't alter what was distributed with the survey, I posted the hours that matched the Friday-Saturday combination here.

Summary : Fri 9-6 (9-5 member halls), Sat 9-3 (both dealer and member).  Setup on Thursday (12-5 member, 9-7 dealer)

-Dave

I really like the half day Thursday.  Eliminating it is a bummer for me.  I traveled the 5 hours Thursday morning for the noon open.  Came back Friday for half a day plus.  The city of York is going to lose a bunch on me, no fancy hotel and dinner on Thursday night with the wife.  I’ll drive down Thursday later in the day and stay with my brother-in-law. All day Friday at the show will be tough for me and my wife now that we are older.  Two half days were better for us oldsters.  After the Friday show, we will return to my brother-in-law’s.  No Saturday, my brother-in-law is not that close.

shorling posted:

I really like the half day Thursday.  Eliminating it is a bummer for me.  I traveled the 5 hours Thursday morning for the noon open.  Came back Friday for half a day plus.  The city of York is going to lose a bunch on me, no fancy hotel and dinner on Thursday night with the wife.  I’ll drive down Thursday later in the day and stay with my brother-in-law. All day Friday at the show will be tough for me and my wife now that we are older.  Two half days were better for us oldsters.  After the Friday show, we will return to my brother-in-law’s.  No Saturday, my brother-in-law is not that close.

Don't give up the ghost yet. As Bryan from Ohio reported in an earlier post in this thread, ED has not decided the days and hours beyond the April 2020 York Meet. 

I know, Joe H, I was just funning on Jim D. 

irish rifle posted:

shorling posted:

I really like the half day Thursday.  Eliminating it is a bummer for me.  I traveled the 5 hours Thursday morning for the noon open.  Came back Friday for half a day plus.  The city of York is going to lose a bunch on me, no fancy hotel and dinner on Thursday night with the wife.  I’ll drive down Thursday later in the day and stay with my brother-in-law. All day Friday at the show will be tough for me and my wife now that we are older.  Two half days were better for us oldsters.  After the Friday show, we will return to my brother-in-law’s.  No Saturday, my brother-in-law is not that close.

Don't give up the ghost yet. As Bryan from Ohio reported in an earlier post in this thread, ED has not decided the days and hours beyond the April 2020 York Meet. 

Thanks for the up lift  !!  I went on the ED web site.  They are still showing 3 days for all future shows including this April 2020 ?

Here's a photo from the Eastern Division website showing two-day meets starting next year.   Charlie

shorling posted:

irish rifle posted:

shorling posted:

I really like the half day Thursday.  Eliminating it is a bummer for me.  I traveled the 5 hours Thursday morning for the noon open.  Came back Friday for half a day plus.  The city of York is going to lose a bunch on me, no fancy hotel and dinner on Thursday night with the wife.  I’ll drive down Thursday later in the day and stay with my brother-in-law. All day Friday at the show will be tough for me and my wife now that we are older.  Two half days were better for us oldsters.  After the Friday show, we will return to my brother-in-law’s.  No Saturday, my brother-in-law is not that close.

Don't give up the ghost yet. As Bryan from Ohio reported in an earlier post in this thread, ED has not decided the days and hours beyond the April 2020 York Meet. 

Thanks for the up lift  !!  I went on the ED web site.  They are still showing 3 days for all future shows including this April 2020 ?

Here is the exact post from Bryan that contains the response from the Eastern Division. In a nutshell, no decision has been made by the ED Board about the length of the York Meets after the April 2020 Meet. What is listed on the ED website for Meets after that time is just a placeholder.

Bryan"

Farmer_Bill posted:

I know, Joe H, I was just funning on Jim D. 

I know. Just enlightening Eddie.

Some would say York is already a 2-day show. I've never even gone on Saturday, and apparently I'm not alone. I always hear how sparsely attended Saturday is, with dealers using most of the day to pack up, and leaving early, notwithstanding Eastern's finger-wagging and threats of never-imposed sanctions.

So, I'm not thinking the meet will look much different to a lot of people--they'll just go on Fri-Sat, instead of Thurs-Fri--but it should be easier on the dealers, which I think will be a win for everyone.

nickaix posted:

 

So, I'm not thinking the meet will look much different to a lot of people--they'll just go on Fri-Sat, instead of Thurs-Fri--but it should be easier on the dealers, which I think will be a win for everyone.

The meet WILL look a bit different in that the previous headcount of Thursday and Friday will now be combined on Friday. Saturday will most likely remain the same. I wish you were correct, but when they added Thursday to the mix, I did notice less of a "mob scene", especially in the Red Hall. I may be wrong, but I doubt if many would pay the cost of a overnight stay  just to attend on Saturday.

It really depends on how many people (like myself) only attend for one day, or how many "2-day" people only go through a particular hall once. 

Joe Hohmann posted:

nickaix posted:

 

So, I'm not thinking the meet will look much different to a lot of people--they'll just go on Fri-Sat, instead of Thurs-Fri--but it should be easier on the dealers, which I think will be a win for everyone.

The meet WILL look a bit different in that the previous headcount of Thursday and Friday will now be combined on Friday. Saturday will most likely remain the same. I wish you were correct, but when they added Thursday to the mix, I did notice less of a "mob scene", especially in the Red Hall. I may be wrong, but I doubt if many would pay the cost of a overnight stay  just to attend on Saturday.

It really depends on how many people (like myself) only attend for one day, or how many "2-day" people only go through a particular hall once. 

For those of you who attended back when York was a 2 day meet, what was traffic like at the end of the meet on Friday if you tried to go East on Rt30 out of York?   I've had to leave around 1 or 2 pm some Fridays the last few years and traffic was pretty bad.  I hate to think of what it would be like at 5 or 6 pm on a Friday.   Since I'll still be staying overnight on Thursday for the OGR Dinner and to get to breakfast Friday morning without having to get up at 4 am, I may be one of the few people for which going to a 2 day meet will cost me more money...lol  

-Greg

Greg Houser posted:

For those of you who attended back when York was a 2 day meet, what was traffic like at the end of the meet on Friday if you tried to go East on Rt30 out of York?  

-Greg

As you likely know, traffic is ALWAYS bad on U.S. 30. There is no especially good time, aside from between 2 a.m. and 4:30 a.m., but yes, Friday afternoon and evening is and was pretty bad until you get well out of York.

Joe Hohmann posted:

nickaix posted:

 

So, I'm not thinking the meet will look much different to a lot of people--they'll just go on Fri-Sat, instead of Thurs-Fri--but it should be easier on the dealers, which I think will be a win for everyone.

The meet WILL look a bit different in that the previous headcount of Thursday and Friday will now be combined on Friday. Saturday will most likely remain the same. I wish you were correct, but when they added Thursday to the mix, I did notice less of a "mob scene", especially in the Red Hall. I may be wrong, but I doubt if many would pay the cost of a overnight stay  just to attend on Saturday.

It really depends on how many people (like myself) only attend for one day, or how many "2-day" people only go through a particular hall once. 

I suspect there aren't many folks who just go for Thursday.  If that's the case, the headcount on Friday maybe relatively unchanged if Thursday is eliminated.  The existing show is basically a two day show spread over 3 days (can't really count Saturday afternoon).   So if your someone who is selling, eliminating Thursday results in 25% less face time with the target buyer audience.   Now you could argue that people come with a list and they are going buy the list even if Thursday is eliminated.  But there is a lot of spontaneous buying that goes on and 25% less buying time is going to result in lower sales.   I don't see how that's a step in right direction for folks who want to increase sales ?

I certainly hope this gets straightened out pronto by the Eastern Division.  This affects a lot of businesses, logistics, and potential consumers.

If any Eastern Division officers are reading this, the publication of an official, decisive, correct, and final determination would be highly appreciated.

George

G3750 posted:

I certainly hope this gets straightened out pronto by the Eastern Division.  This affects a lot of businesses, logistics, and potential consumers.

If any Eastern Division officers are reading this, the publication of an official, decisive, correct, and final determination would be highly appreciated.

George

I'm not sure what needs to be straightened out.  The EDTCA home page clearly states the dates on the bottom left.  What more do they need to say or did I miss something (which is VERY possible?)

https://www.easterntca.com/

Chris Lord posted:

G3750 posted:

I certainly hope this gets straightened out pronto by the Eastern Division.  This affects a lot of businesses, logistics, and potential consumers.

If any Eastern Division officers are reading this, the publication of an official, decisive, correct, and final determination would be highly appreciated.

George

I'm not sure what needs to be straightened out.  The EDTCA home page clearly states the dates on the bottom left.  What more do they need to say or did I miss something (which is VERY possible?)

https://www.easterntca.com/

 

Agreed. I think the previous poster may have missed some other thread(s) posted on the current York Meet plans.

Next month remains a 3-day event and then it moves to 2 days, beginning in April, 2020 (Friday and Saturday). And EDTCA will continue to evaluate, as needed, as we move forward.

At least that's my take.

Right?

The confusion persists because different information sources say different things:

1) the EDTCA web page that shows ALL Aprill 2020 and onward meets as only 2 days.

2) EDTCA responding to someone's email inquiry, stating it's just April 2020 until they see how that goes: https://ogrforum.com/...26#98006844801082026

3)  the EDTCA York Facebook page, which states April 2020 is 2 days, not that all meets are 2 days: https://www.facebook.com/pg/Yo...s/?ref=page_internal

So one of these three sources has to be wrong.  I tend to believe the person who updated and changed all the dates in the future to 2 dates jumped the gun.  Why it hasn't been changed back, if that is correct, (it was changed so quickly that it could easily have been adjusted again at this point) is a mystery.  Unless the EDTCA rep who responded to the email was entirely wrong.

I guess it depends how you take the announcement.  I always looked at "we will see" as : "We are still on 3 days for everything beyond April 2020 unless you hear otherwise".  Based on reading John's post right above this one, I guess it's possible to take it as "We changed it to 2 days for April 2020, and it stays at 2, unless we evaluate and decide it makes sense to go back to 3"

As stated : confusion.  Don't worry, I'm sure there will be lots of clear, concise, unambiguous PA announcements at the meet next month to clear it all up.

-Dave

To add more to the mix, here is the Presidents Message right above the future York dates on the EDTCA web page:

     There is nothing clear about the coming change other than more than one entity at the EDTCA seems to be  making statements about the show. I'm looking at the website and what I get out of the president's statement is York will be 2 days going forward from April 2020. This is also reflected in the posted dates that go through October 2023.  And, yes, I saw the post that said April 2020 is supposed to be an experiment with the 2 day format. Also there is nothing new on the EDTCA facebook page since it was announced back on 08-25-19. 

Thank you Dave.

Indeed, getting different messages on different media is the issue.  All I am saying is that “Ready, Fire, Aim” is not a strategy for success.

George

What will happen to the LCCA dinner at Smoky Bones on Wednesdays? and does this mean the bandit meets will return on a large scale? And how about the Wednesday open house at the TCA museum?

OK for next April, but all the motels need to know whether or not to jack-up their room rates for Wed. night for future meets.

MIKATT1 posted:

What will happen to the LCCA dinner at Smoky Bones on Wednesdays? and does this mean the bandit meets will return on a large scale? And how about the Wednesday open house at the TCA museum?

The TCA Museum open house events used to be on Thursday before the meet went to three days, it would be logical to assume it will return to that schedule for any meet that ends up being only Friday/Saturday.

-Dave

I hate to see Thursdays go. We drive 2 days to get to York and it is great to be able to go in at noon on Thursday. We go to the orange hall that day and the member halls on Friday and then in afternoon on Friday back to orange to make our purchases and pick up previous purchases.  Been to 14 strait meets but will cut back to only fall meet and maybe only every 2 years or so just have to see how it goes. Really when they go to 2 days they are really going to one . Saturday is really dead with the member halls packing up. Its hard for me to get everything in basically in a one day meet. I guess if that happens Ill spend my time in the orange and purple hall.

farmerjohn posted:

I hate to see Thursdays go. We drive 2 days to get to York and it is great to be able to go in at noon on Thursday. We go to the orange hall that day and the member halls on Friday and then in afternoon on Friday back to orange to make our purchases and pick up previous purchases.  Been to 14 strait meets but will cut back to only fall meet and maybe only every 2 years or so just have to see how it goes. Really when they go to 2 days they are really going to one . Saturday is really dead with the member halls packing up. Its hard for me to get everything in basically in a one day meet. I guess if that happens Ill spend my time in the orange and purple hall.

Don't hoist the white flag yet. ED has made no decision beyond the April 2020 Meet, as has been reported previously. Here's hoping that the October Meets continue to include Thursdays.

Pat

irish rifle posted:

Don't hoist the white flag yet. ED has made no decision beyond the April 2020 Meet, as has been reported previously. Here's hoping that the October Meets continue to include Thursdays.

Pat

It's also important to note that that specific idea was one of the options sent in the survey to table holders and dealers, so it is not too far fetched to think it could go that way (2 days every April, 3 days every October) in the future.

-Dave

Joe Hohmann posted:

OK for next April, but all the motels need to know whether or not to jack-up their room rates for Wed. night for future meets.

Shhh - don't say anything

farmerjohn posted:

I hate to see Thursdays go. We drive 2 days to get to York and it is great to be able to go in at noon on Thursday. We go to the orange hall that day and the member halls on Friday and then in afternoon on Friday back to orange to make our purchases and pick up previous purchases.  Been to 14 strait meets but will cut back to only fall meet and maybe only every 2 years or so just have to see how it goes. Really when they go to 2 days they are really going to one . Saturday is really dead with the member halls packing up. Its hard for me to get everything in basically in a one day meet. I guess if that happens Ill spend my time in the orange and purple hall.

It's a one-day drive for me, but my process and feelings about it are similar to yours.

I like the current format because it spreads the crowds out.  It's easier to navigate the halls, and as a result it's easier to spend money.  I wonder how many people will spend less money if the meet is changed back to Friday/Saturday.  And a two-day meet will allow less time for visiting with other members.

In my thinking, it's a 2 day meet going to 1. I never counted "Pack Up" Saturday.

Seeing EDDIEM's post about camping details (and his reference to "the last 3 day York meet" at the end of his post) caused me to re-visit the York FB page, the text has now been updated as follows:

"Your Board of Directors recently voted to hold the SPRING 2020 YORK SHOW to two (2) days and all future shows to FRIDAY & SATURDAY. This decision was based responses from both vendors and attendees alike. NOTE - NO CHANGE FOR OCTOBER - STILL 3 DAYS THURSDAY, FRIDAY & SATURDAY. Watch for further details."

There is also a reply to a question under that post from only 2 days ago, now seeming to confirm the plan is for only 2 days for ALL meets:

So while perhaps unfortunate, it seems the decision has in fact been made to reduce to only 2 days for every meet at this point. 

(though there is also a confusing response (also from only 2 days ago) with a simple "that is correct" response when someone (might be our Bryan in Ohio, same spelling?) asked a question regarding no change for October 2019 and 2020, so they still managed to sneak an ambiguity into the updated responses.)

So either things have changed based on the on-line reactions received, or that original email response that Bryan in Ohio received regarding seeing how April goes before making further decisions was just  an error.  (I would have assumed "wait for reaction" might have included the meet actually happening and seeing how attendance changed and/or the observables regarding how the meet goes in April, but that might be me misunderstanding the intent of that response)

It would be nice if the EDTCA would have either:

a) put a new post on the top of their FB page (which would reflect the new date, rather than retaining the original one from the stale 8/25 post - I'm not FB expert, but I don't know how to tell the original is edited)  to acknowledge the original error, or

b) sent a quick and concise message to a few major magazines (thinking OGR and CTT, maybe a few others focused on scales other than O) so that a post could be created calling this to everyone's attention, or

c) followed up to the original email distribution for the survey (or even better to all member email addresses on file) with this clarification.

In any event, I'll still add a "Thank You" to all the people who run the meet, and I'll likely still participate every 6 months, though possibly without bothering with getting a table.  (Still being a shopper, I would like more than one hour on a single day to view dealer halls once the member halls close)

-Dave

Well, I guess we will see how this works. I doubt that it will work well for me. I've enjoyed the 25 years I've been going to York. I think I've gotten to all 50 in that time period, maybe a couple as a one day trip. One of the biggest highlights for me has been the OGR dinner. I really do thank OGR for that. I guess that will disappear also. It's been a great run.

Gerry

Everyone does remember when York was Friday and Saturday only, right?