Now What Is This, Lionel? Bifocals?

That is unacceptable in my book.

That is unacceptable in my book.

josef, thank you. 

Holy crap!!!!!   

Are they replaceable?  Better get on the phone to Lionel Parts Dept. for CORRECT replacements.

That's pretty bad! How did they miss that one. It looks like the E8 is wearing "Bi-focals".

Emile

But on higher priced scale products?

They never changed from sticking the windows on the outside of the passenger cars and it's expected that they'll change this?

Rusty

It looks like they used an old F3 windshield... like they reached in the wrong parts bin!

Someone AIN'T doing their quality control job!!!!!

Ralph

Has anyone sent a note to Lionel asking about this?   When, and if you do, please don't rant and rave as we do here on OGR.

You mean F3, or any F unit for that matter, has different windshield glass than E units?

The windshield doesn't look good, but at least Lionel didn't stick the windshield on the outside of the car like their aluminum passenger cars.

Here's two more items Lionel could have done better.

Is this a step box so the headlight can be accessed and cleaned? In any case its about twice as wide as it should be.

The mini step at the rear of the engine looks ridiculous. I'm sure Lionel did this so the step wouldn't interfere with the coupler swing on O36 curves. However, how much would it have cost to include an extra set of scale steps for those of us that are operating on wider curves?

Ken

Well, that's odd.

Just looked at my K-Line E-8 "Jades", and they do indeed appear (they are on a shelf right now) to have a similar ridge on the windshield "glass" - except that it is down at the bottom of the piece, resting on the bodywork, as it should be. Essentially invisible.

A positioning feature, I guess.

See - buying diesels just leads to trouble.

Jack if I remember didn't the old pre scale Lionel Fs have really narrow windshields? That's what I meant.. I have no idea if they are different in real life...

I'm sure it just didn't get picked up by quality control.  I'm also sure they won't have any problem either replacing it or replacing the glass with correct glass.  If nothing else, your money back.

Art

What do expect from a toy company?

I assume you are joking, I've always enjoyed your posts.

The answer to that is Lionel's Standard O line has produced some fine products.  I always thought Lionel did a bang up job on the Standard O engines I've purchased. 

This is the first one with a stupid mistake.  Lionel should man-up and recast that windshield.  For me I would be happy to BUY a new one.  I don't know if they could absorb the cost, and what's $2 or $3 bucks.  I have some extra F3 windshields and plan on seeing if I can get one to work.

That's a buffer plate, and yes, it's too wide.  It should be just about or a tad wider than the nose door:

The short steps on the rear are just plain sad.

Rusty

Well, it is an old engine, may be it needs a Bi focal to see well

Seriously though, I do hope you find  a solution so you are happy with your Expensive Scale loco. Of course let us know how it goes. Give Lionel a chance to resolve it.

It looks like the E8 is wearing "Bi-focals

That's it, you named it.  Thanks "TheBigCrabCake" (Emile)

They do look absurd. Same windows on my KCS unit. 

I completely understand your beef, and not to hijack by any means...but imagine slapping down $800 for the pair, a PASSENGER engine, and then being told the cars won't be made!

No worries, though. Got some really nice MTH DAP cars from 2009...

Howard,

I've been waiting for a pair of Santa Fe E8s for a long time. Don't care for the MTH/DCS versions. The K-Line version didn't always do the yellow nose strip right. So I pre ordered the Legacy engines last April.

I got mine a couple weeks ago... NEVER even opened them... sent them back.

I had not seen anyone point out the window before, but that's just ANOTHER reason mine went back. I had seen various photos of them after other members received theirs, and already made up my mind.

1. bad windows 

2. No B units

3. Only 1 powered A available

4. those stupid stubby steps on the rear

5. the body is too narrow

6. the pilot doesn't fit the body... cuz the body is too narrow

7. silver paint instead of simulated stainless panels

8. big gap between the frame and body

9. same old truck mounted side steps

10. ridiculous ice breakers on the roof

I didn't post anything about it prior as I wasn't going to go off on a rant about them... I just sent them back. I've had enough of the errors and compromises. I'm not going to spend a ton of time and money to correct them any more.

I'll just wait until someone decides to do them right... no big deal.   

Funny, I have the UP E9s from last year and they have the same goofy windows and I never noticed it until after seeing this post.  No doubt about it, those windows stink.  Not sure why I never noticed, now I can't look at the front without being drawn to it.  

Well of course they suck... they're UP  just kidding... just kidding...

I didn't post anything about it prior as I wasn't going to go off on a rant about them

As you know I switched to 2 rail.  I bought the Lionel Wabash version because for a number of reasons, mostly sentimental.  It will probably be my last new Lionel engine.  It represents a lot of things, but mostly an engine that I saw roll by just a few feet from where I stood on many occasions.  I rode the Blue Bird many times from St. Louis to Chicago and back many times in the mid to late 50's and early 60's.  Christmas 1955, much to my surprise, my parents gave me a new 2367 Wabash F3 to pull the Lionel aluminum passenger cars making up my Post War "Blue Bird"

I ordered this knowing most of the issues you mention which also included a dynamic brake fan that neither Wabash, nor Santa Fe had on their units.  

But the windshield is outrageous.  It's a simple casting.  I've studied the windshield on the 5 sets of Lionel Standard O Santa Fe F3 and F7's I owned.  They got better every year.  Same casting, different paint trim.

This is a relatively new engine for Lionel.  They have done so well over the last 15 years.  How could they have dropped the ball now.  I am surprised.  

Since it won't be part of my model railroad, I won't return it.

BTW Lionel, I would pay more than 2 or 3 dollars for a windshield that fits properly.  I need two.

There's not much time left, being Saturday, but there are still a whole bunch of Forumites attending York.  Will someone ask Lionel staffers about this and see what their response is?  I would love to hear what kind of direct response you would get.

Mike, that would be great.  They have a nice engine, so why let something like that be so distracting.

Certainly looks cartoonish. Hard to believe that the defect was not spotted during approval inspection.

   Bill T

That windshield is not a quality control item, it is as engineered. Tooling was made to produce the windshield as you see it. Frankly, take away the closeup perspective and I fail to see the problem.

Bobby, I somewhat agree with you.  Once the engine is on the tracks moving at a scale cruising speed (and considering I need to put on glasses just to be able to respond to your post!) I doubt I will even see the "bifocals" effect.  Even so...  

That windshield is not a quality control item, it is as engineered.

Yes, but poorly designed, and someone always has to sign off on a design before it gets tooled.  After the first sample, it should again be signed off on before it goes into production.  I never said it was a quality control item.  I don't know where you got that.   

Frankly, take away the closeup perspective and I fail to see the problem.

My picture was a close up to isolate the issue.  

I can see it from 4 feet away, and thats with the interior lights off.  Turn the lights on and it is more obvious.   I shouldn't have to stand 5 feet away to look at the engine and on see the problem.

I can't understand how people defend mistakes.  

And BTW, I need new glasses for my 68 year old eyes.

Quality is a journey, not a destination. 

It starts at the beginning of the process, (meaning the engineering specs) and continues all the way through the manufacturing process all the way to the end user.

Rusty

Its merely a gross mistake, since Lionel has gotten E unit windshield correct in the past.

This is akin the the rear steps that were so rediculously out of alignment with the shell on the first Legacy GP30's. No excuse here either as previous TMCC GP 30's had the steps done correctly.

We're familiar with the parts and service folks, railsounds guy, tech officer, production manager, and product planner at Lionel.

Whos the "detail/ accuracy/ final inspection" guy????

Howard, I can obviously only speak for myself here, but I truly appreciate it when people like you bring issues like this one to our attention here on the Forum...so please keep doing it!

As for how or why people get defensive when these issues are brought to life in this public Forum...

I'm convinced that there are several (many, maybe) extreme brand loyalists among us who simply do not like it when we talk about "their" brand in any sort of way that may be construed as "negative".  Extreme sensitivity if you will, almost like you are attacking them personally.

These folks would rather us handle any such "complaints", if at all, directly with the manufacturer--off-line, and far away from this Forum.  Or sometimes they want you to just accept it as is, or fix it yourself...even if you've just spent hundreds...or a thousand + on the item.  But whatever you do, don't talk about it here!

Well IMO, that's a bunch of hooey!  I for one WANT to know about these types of manufacturer mistakes, and as soon as possible.  This is the real-world product-review information that if not discussed in an open forum setting like this one, some of us would never know about unless we actually purchased the item ourselves.  We all know that the catalog images aren't always accurate.

There have even been a few occasions when these mistakes were significant enough to influence my purchase decision, so for that reason alone I'm extremely grateful for this info being shared here!

Thanks again...and keep up the good work.  And please let us know if you get any response from the manufacturer.

Can't understand how people defend mistakes?

Witness the 18" passenger car stick on windows. People will go to their grave defending those cars. One prominent reviewer wouldn't even point them out as he was noting a properly done window less than two inches away on the same car in the same screenview.

It's sad to say that the "Idontcare's" have us outnumbered. And, it is going to take someone high up with a strong sense of integrity to bring about a change.

* While the basis of this thread is about Lionel, Lionel is by no means meant to be singled out in the conversation. Recent events that have come to light involve other well established manufacturers that have been lax in the quality of their design and should be held accountable for their actions.

As stated it is NOT a QC issue......not like 20% of the windows had this issue and the rest didn't.......

It was a tooling issue that someone OK'd or didn't see it as an issue. Not owning one I can't say much.....but things like this are done to save cost often....or done when there is a tolerance issue. Maybe the original windshield interfered with other parts?? Not endorsing it....but may have just been a cheap fix to an issue.  

It is a TWO WAY Street!!!!

There have been many GOOD reviews about many Lionel products, these reviews most certainly have caused more sales...

The opposite is true, so May be it balances out over all. As a matter of fact, the brand loyalists, as mentioned before, may outnumber the truth seekers

So overall, Lionel wins!!!!!

Hmm... maybe I can make a Brewster character out of it from Chugginton....